23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[rockytopva]

So many immature children on this forum. Pray for wisdom, kid.

And in dealing with those of the Sardisean church age even wisdom wouldn't do. As Sardis is a gem so that bunch is indeed elegant in appearance, but very unchangeable and hard in their ways. I would be put to a cruel death in dealing with them in their time.

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. - Revelation 3:1-2

 

[Keraz]

Both passages refer to the last days. Scripture indicates that the last days began already on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21) and they last until the future coming of Christ (2 Peter 3:3-4). So, your attempts to make those passages, which are undeniably related directly to the last days, about anything except for the time period between Christ's first coming and His second coming, are just a joke. You continually fail to allow scripture to interpret scripture and that is why you try to redefine the time period to which the last days pertain.

Just how does 'beat their swords into pruning hooks, and no one will be trained for war', let alone; 'the Lord's House established', relate to todays situation?
AMill believers must be deep in their deceivableness, to even think these Prophesies are fulfilled and have applied thru this Church age.

But of course; God has bound up the Message, Isaiah 8:16, so those who promote their own end times scenario, are incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
Sad really, as a proper knowledge of what God has planned for His people, would be very helpful is getting thru the difficult times ahead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just how does 'beat their swords into pruning hooks, and no one will be trained for war', let alone; 'the Lord's House established', relate to todays situation?

Because it relates specifically to the church, not to unbelievers. We in the church are "the Lord's House" and we are taught to love even our enemies rather than try to take vengeance against them.

AMill believers must be deep in their deceivableness, to even think these Prophesies are fulfilled and have applied thru this Church age.

Again, you do not take scripture like Acts 2:16-21 and 2 Peter 3:3-4 into account. Those scriptures make it very clear that "the last days" apply to the time from the day of Pentecost up until the second coming of Christ. You completely ignore those scriptures when interpreting those OT passages and you try to make it so that "the last days" apply to a time after Christ's return instead. That blatantly contradicts what the NT passages I referenced indicate. But, you could not care less about that because interpreting scripture with scripture to ensure that you're not interpreting one passage in such a way that contradicts another passage is not something that you're interested in.

But of course; God has bound up the Message, Isaiah 8:16, so those who promote their own end times scenario, are incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
Sad really, as a proper knowledge of what God has planned for His people, would be very helpful is getting thru the difficult times ahead.

You are one of those who do not understand Bible prophecy. You focus entirely on physical catastrophes while scripture instead warns us about spiritual deception and to make an effort to be spiritually aware of what's going on. What does it matter if someone is prepared for physical destruction if they are not prepared spiritually for Christ's return? You have entirely the wrong focus.

 

[WPM]

Just how does 'beat their swords into pruning hooks, and no one will be trained for war', let alone; 'the Lord's House established', relate to todays situation?
AMill believers must be deep in their deceivableness, to even think these Prophesies are fulfilled and have applied thru this Church age.

But of course; God has bound up the Message, Isaiah 8:16, so those who promote their own end times scenario, are incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
Sad really, as a proper knowledge of what God has planned for His people, would be very helpful is getting thru the difficult times ahead.

Amils and Postmils stand with the ancient Amils and Chiliast on this issue. Modern Premil takes its beliefs from the ancient heretics.

Justin Martyr Asia Minor (now Turkey) (AD 100-166)

Justin is very clear:

And when the Spirit of prophecy speaks as predicting things that are to come to pass, He speaks in this way: “For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” And that it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God; and we who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies (The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 39).​

Justin Martyr applied the fulfilment of Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 to this current time period. He understands these passages to be telling us that Messiah would come and bring peace to His subjects through the widespread preaching of the Gospel. According to this early Chiliast, Messiah would come and bring peace to the nations. This would be performed through the Word of God going out of Zion to all nations in these last days. Christ did this through His disciples. The Gentiles would come to Christ and be eternally changed through embracing the truth of God. The peace that would come with the kingdom was spiritual peace not physical peace marked by the cessation of violence. The learning war no more refers to what happens when one enters the kingdom.

The Gentiles would repent of the evil in which they led erring lives, when they heard the doctrine preached by His apostles from Jerusalem, and which they learned through them, suffer me to show you by quoting a short statement from the prophecy of Micah, one of the twelve [minor prophets] … (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 109).​

Justin then supports his statement by quoting Micah 4:1-5. This vision of Micah is interpreted by this writer to be a pictorial vision of the new covenant order, and the last days. It is understood to be a metaphorical description of the incredible peace and reconciliation that comes through the success of the Gospel.

Elsewhere, he argues similar:

There is now another covenant, and another law has gone forth from Zion. Jesus Christ circumcises all who will—as was declared above—with knives of stone; that they may be a righteous nation, a people keeping faith, holding to the truth, and maintaining peace. Come then with me, all who fear God, who wish to see the good of Jerusalem. Come, let us go to the light of the Lord; for He has liberated His people, the house of Jacob. Come, all nations; let us gather ourselves together at Jerusalem, no longer plagued by war for the sins of her people (The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 24).​

This is applied to the Gospel light going out to the Gentiles (ethnos). Before the cross they were in darkness; now they are enlightened. The answer to darkness every time is shown to be light. The people of God are marked by the fact that they have experienced “peace.”

The word which went forth from Jerusalem by means of the apostles of Jesus, have fled for safety to the God of Jacob and God of Israel; and we who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,— our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage, —and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified; and sitting each under his vine, i.e., each man possessing his own married wife (Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 110).​

Those of all nations that enter into salvation are seen here by the ancient writer to exchange the weapons of war for the tools of peace. Peace is said to be the tangible fruit of encountering Christ. This is what the kingdom of God embodies. Justin Martyr argues that Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 are not speaking of physical conflict and external persecution emanating from outside the kingdom upon the saints, but the internal peaceful conditions that eternally exist within the kingdom of God. The true believer that has been united to Christ and truly resides within this kingdom ceases from fighting with the arm of flesh any more. Ancient foes unite in love. The weapons of war – the swords and spears – are metaphorically converted into the tools of peacetime – the plowshares and pruninghooks – (Isaiah 2:4, Micah 4:3).

Of course, many trip up with passages like Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 with their literalist mind-set. They fail to see that peace with God is not some purely abstract earthly thing. It would be wrong to understand or interpret the prophetic words in both of these texts in a natural literal carnal sense. It is not referring to the cessation of physical violence. The termination of war or military conflict does not constitute true peace in God’s eyes.

 

[WPM]

Just how does 'beat their swords into pruning hooks, and no one will be trained for war', let alone; 'the Lord's House established', relate to todays situation?
AMill believers must be deep in their deceivableness, to even think these Prophesies are fulfilled and have applied thru this Church age.

But of course; God has bound up the Message, Isaiah 8:16, so those who promote their own end times scenario, are incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
Sad really, as a proper knowledge of what God has planned for His people, would be very helpful is getting thru the difficult times ahead.

Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons, Gaul, (now France) (AD 150)

Irenaeus is in rock-solid agreement with the general assessment of Justin, which is not surprising, since they both held similar eschatological beliefs and ministered around the same era in history. The earliest Chiliast writers all tended to be on the same page on most of their views. In keeping with his fellow early Millennialists, Irenaeus emphasized the current realized eschatology of the messianic kingdom. This was a standard fundamental and emphasized position of that position.

[T]he angel said, when bringing good tidings to Mary: “He shall he great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord shall give unto Him the throne of His father David” acknowledging that He who is the Son of the Highest, the same is Himself also the Son of David. And David, knowing by the Spirit the dispensation of the advent of this Person, by which He is supreme over all the living and dead, confessed Him as Lord, sitting on the right hand of the Most High Father (Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 16:3).​

Irenaeus highlights the Lordship of Christ exercising all power over all the universe and all mankind – friend or foe. To him, Jesus is a current sovereign king, who rules over all things. He also taught:

God the Father ruling over all, and His Son who has received dominion from His Father over all creation, as this passage has it: The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool. Here the [Scripture] represents to us the Father addressing the Son; He who gave Him the inheritance of the heathen, and subjected to Him all His enemies. Since, therefore, the Father is truly Lord, and the Son truly Lord, the Holy Spirit has fitly designated them by the title of Lord … And this [text following] does declare the same truth: Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the sceptre of Your kingdom is a right sceptre. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, Your God, has anointed You (Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 6).​

According to Irenaeus, Christ currently exercises “dominion … over all creation.” Here He employs the Old Testament passage in Psalm 110:1 to impress His point. What is more, His enemies have been made subject onto him right now through His victorious earthly ministry. This early writer confirms that our Lord has already defeated all His enemies. He demonstrates the fact that Christ reigns in majesty and glory at the right hand of majesty today over His adversaries. He is king over the kings and kingdoms of the earth. He is Lord and reigns over all principalities and powers, rulers of darkness, and spiritual wickedness in high places. He exercises sovereign kingly power over all His enemies until He makes them His footstool. There is nothing that is not under his feet. Jesus Christ is presented to be Lord! He is in control of all things and rules over all things.

Everything about the Old Testament Messianic prophecies is shown by these early Millennialists to be current and heavenly. They are exhibited repeatedly to be occurring now in this intra-Advent period (also known as the “last days”). This cuts across the Premillennialist fixation with postponing Christ’s reign upon the throne of David to some supposed future earthly millennial kingdom after the second coming.

Irenaeus repeats his position in Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter 10:5:

[T]owards the conclusion of his Gospel, Mark says: So then, after the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sits on the right hand of God; confirming what had been spoken by the prophet: The Lord said to my Lord, Sit on My right hand, until I make Your foes Your footstool.​

There is no ambiguity or doubt from this early writer when the fulfillment of Christ’s Messianic reign relates to. This truth is routinely emphasized in Chiliast writings. Christ sitting at the right hand of majesty is deemed here to be equivalent to Him reigning over His enemies.

It is thus indicated that, after His passion and ascension, God shall cast down under His feet all who were opposed to Him, and He shall be exalted above all, and there shall be no one who can be justified or compared to Him (Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter XXXIII:13).​

He further adds:

[D]oes the Lord also say: “All things are delivered to Me by My Father;” manifestly by Him who made all things; for He did not deliver to Him the things of another, but His own. But in all things [it is implied that] nothing has been kept back [from Him], and for this reason the same person is the Judge of the living and the dead; “having the key of David: He shall open, and no man shall shut: He shall shut, and no man shall open” … receiving power over all things from the same God who made all things by the Word … that even as the Word of God had the sovereignty in the heavens, so also might He have the sovereignty in earth … that He might have the pre-eminence over those things which are under the earth … and that all things, as I have already said, might behold their King (Against Heresies Book IV, Chapter 20:2).​

Irenaeus demonstrates that Christ is exercising His Davidic kingship over mankind during the intra-Advent period. He holds the key or authority of David. He is indeed Israel’s king. The Old Testament prediction of Christ taking David’s throne is being fulfilled from the throne room of heaven today. Jesus is reigning in power and glory. To this ancient writer, sitting upon the throne of David means Jesus has dominion over all things. He stresses how Jesus Christ holds all power (without qualification). He is a sovereign monarch. Jesus either causes or permits – as He is God and He is sovereign. He shows how the powerful language that accompanies the mention of Christ holding the key of David in Revelation 3:7 proves that this is referring to His current kingly authority.

Irenaeus joins Justin in applying the parallel messianic predictions of Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 to the time period in between the Lord’s First Advent and His Second Advent. He shows how this triggered the great Gospel expanse. This is carefully connected by the ancient writer

They used the Mosaic law until the coming of the Lord; but from the Lord’s advent, the new covenant which brings back peace, and the law which gives life, has gone forth over the whole earth, as the prophets said: For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem; and He shall rebuke many people; and they shall break down their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks, and they shall no longer learn to fight. If therefore another law and word, going forth from Jerusalem, brought in such a [reign of] peace among the Gentiles which received it (the word), and convinced, through them, many a nation of its folly, then [only] it appears that the prophets spoke of some other person. But if the law of liberty, that is, the word of God, preached by the apostles (who went forth from Jerusalem) throughout all the earth, caused such a change in the state of things, that these [nations] did form the swords and war-lances into ploughshares, and changed them into pruning-hooks for reaping the grain, [that is], into instruments used for peaceful purposes, and that they are now unaccustomed to fighting (Against Heresies Book IV, Chapter 34:4).​

Like Justin, Irenaeus applies the messianic prophecy in Isaiah 2 to the current intra-advent period. He saw the peace that was promised as a spiritual peace that emanates from one encountering Jesus Christ. He saw the great commission as running in tandem with Christ’s Messianic reign in heaven. This was seen to relate to not just Israel but the people of God throughout the nations. This was not a racial expectation relating to ethnic Israel as many modern Premillennialists expect in the future. Once again, the sovereign rule is carefully linked to the ingathering of the nations in this text. The Gentiles that are coming to Christ are shown to be the inheritance of the Lord.

 

[WPM]

Just how does 'beat their swords into pruning hooks, and no one will be trained for war', let alone; 'the Lord's House established', relate to todays situation?
AMill believers must be deep in their deceivableness, to even think these Prophesies are fulfilled and have applied thru this Church age.

But of course; God has bound up the Message, Isaiah 8:16, so those who promote their own end times scenario, are incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word.
Sad really, as a proper knowledge of what God has planned for His people, would be very helpful is getting thru the difficult times ahead.

1. When do/did "the last days" begin?
2. When do/did they finish?
3. When is "the last day"?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One needs eyes to see and the ability to divorce themselves from the error of man's teaching to comprehend Revelation. You seem to struggle with both.

Says you, but then again, I did not get my Ovaltine decoder ring to reinterpret Scripture when I got saved as it seems you did.

You are a master at avoidance.

1. When do/did "the last days" begin?
2. When do/did they finish?
3. When is "the last day"?

No, I gave you the biblical declarations of the end times, and last days and the last day. Depending on context there are "several last days". All depend on which subject you are specifically looking for.

Like the last day of the Tribulation is when Jesus returns.

Teh last day of "time as we know it, is when the heavens and earth dissolve and the new heaven and new earth are created.

There is no indication whatsoever that each of the seven churches represents an age. None! That comes completely from your imagination. They were actual churches that existed in the first century in the ancient Roman province of Asia and there's no basis whatsoever for seeing them as anything besides that.

Well there is but you will not accept them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Would you agree that Revelation 19:11-21 describes the wrath of the Lamb coming down on His enemies? It says that the wrath of the Lamb has come or is at hand after the sixth seal is opened. So, there can't be much time at all between the opening of the sixth seal and what is described in Revelation 19:11-21, right? But, I'm curious as to how much time you think there will be between the opening of the sixth and seal and the second coming of Christ described in Revelation 19:11-21.

Seven years takes place between the sixth seal and the return of Jesus in REv. 19. the wrath of God and the Lamb are experienced on earth by the trumpets and vials, not Jesus return.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This also describes the wrath of the Lamb and, like Revelation 19:11-21, describes it in terms of treading the winepress of the wrath of God. Do you think the above passage is describing a completely different event than what is described in Revelation 19:11-21?

This describes one of many events of the Wrath of the Lamb and God being poured out.

Jesus does not return to Jerusalem. He returns to Petra where the forces of Antichrist have marched from the valley of Jezreel. Jesus battles the antichrist back to Jerusalem, slays him and then does His victory ascent up the Mount of Olives

You must remember that the 7th seal introduces the 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet introduces the 7 vials. This alone should be enough for us to recognize they cannot be contemporary to each other. There are other reasons as well.

That you are agreeing with him on this when you apparently disagree with him on everything else maybe should be a red flag? Anyway, you both deny what scripture teaches, which is that the last days refer to the time period generally between the first coming of Christ and the second coming. Why do you do that?

You and I disagree often also- should I ACCEPT TIMES WE DO AGREE AS RED FLAGS AS WELL?

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Which is why I told WPM that depending on context and the original wording there are several last days(ages) spoken of in Scripture.

Why do you not allow scripture to define when the last days would occur for you? You want to redefine the last days to be a time period AFTER the return of Christ when scripture itself indicates that it is a time period that occurs BEFORE the return of Christ as evidenced by the fact that people obviously scoff at the promise of Christ's second coming BEFORE He comes and not after.

Because the construct of the term last days in Scripture is written differently which tell sus there is mopre than one understanding and the context has to tell us.

Ex. Paul saying in the last days perilous times will come-- that construct tells us it is the general undefined last days

Ez. 37-38 when Israel is brought back in the last days- the construct tells us it is in the compressed times of the last days and not the general time frame

Once again - language and context are our friends.

 

[WPM]

Says you, but then again, I did not get my Ovaltine decoder ring to reinterpret Scripture when I got saved as it seems you did.

No, I gave you the biblical declarations of the end times, and last days and the last day. Depending on context there are "several last days". All depend on which subject you are specifically looking for.

Like the last day of the Tribulation is when Jesus returns.

Teh last day of "time as we know it, is when the heavens and earth dissolve and the new heaven and new earth are created.

Well there is but you will not accept them.

You never give biblical definitions because your man-taught theology does not emanate from there. It comes from the Left Behind novels. You give what you have been told. If you let the Scripture speak for themselves you would realize the last days have been ongoing since Christ. They end on the last day when Jesus appears. There are no more days after the last day. Time shall be no mote then. There is no time for your imaginary 7 year trib or future thousand years.

 

[WPM]

Seven years takes place between the sixth seal and the return of Jesus in REv. 19. the wrath of God and the Lamb are experienced on earth by the trumpets and vials, not Jesus return.

There is a classic example of how your theology functions. You state something but cannot prove it. You force it on the text. That is because you just parrot what you have been told. Quote the 7 years in this passage if you are so confident.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You never give biblical definitions because your man-taught theology does not emanate from there. It comes from the Left Behind novels. You give what you have been told. If you let the Scripture speak for themselves you would realize the last days have been ongoing since Christ. They end on the last day when Jesus appears. There are no more days after the last day. Time shall be no mote then. There is no time for your imaginary 7 year trib or future thousand years.

If you only knew how foolish you sound and how wrong you are. Look up the original languages and see how end times is used. Because you focus more on insulting those you disagree with, I will not do the work for you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is a classic example of how your theology functions. You state something but cannot prove it. You force it on the text. That is because you just parrot what you have been told. Quote the 7 years in this passage if you are so confident.

Well teh tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, if you want I can relist the verses I have listed many times on various threads that show the Day of the Lord and the Day of wrath also starts with the antichrist signing a 7year covenant with Israel. But it is deduced very easily from the fact that the "great tribulation" starts when the antichrist enters the temple, declaring himself he is god. That is 1260 days. It is also when he declares genocide against Jews and Christians.

As the last 7 years finish the 70 weeks of Daniel, we know in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years), He cause the sacrifice and oblations to cease. that is because He entered the temple itself. So we have three and 1/2 years from the start of the wrath of the lamb until the antichrist enters the temple and then 3 1/2 years until Jesus returns and defeats him at Petra and slays him in Jerusalem. But that is only if you take God at His Word and not have to rewrite it to suit an allegorist agenda.

 

[WPM]

Well teh tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, if you want I can relist the verses I have listed many times on various threads that show the Day of the Lord and the Day of wrath also starts with the antichrist signing a 7year covenant with Israel. But it is deduced very easily from the fact that the "great tribulation" starts when the antichrist enters the temple, declaring himself he is god. That is 1260 days. It is also when he declares genocide against Jews and Christians.

As the last 7 years finish the 70 weeks of Daniel, we know in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years), He cause the sacrifice and oblations to cease. that is because He entered the temple itself. So we have three and 1/2 years from the start of the wrath of the lamb until the antichrist enters the temple and then 3 1/2 years until Jesus returns and defeats him at Petra and slays him in Jerusalem. But that is only if you take God at His Word and not have to rewrite it to suit an allegorist agenda.

Your spelling is abysmal. Try a spell checker if you cannot spell the word "the." Most of us learnt this by the age of 5.

You really do not get it. The tribulation of Satan on God's people is completely different to the wrath of God on the wicked. They could not be more diverse.

There is no rapture mentioned in Dan 9. You must force it in there. It is long-fulfilled and refers to the First Advent of Messiah.

 

[covenantee]

Well teh tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb, if you want I can relist the verses I have listed many times on various threads that show the Day of the Lord and the Day of wrath also starts with the antichrist signing a 7year covenant with Israel. But it is deduced very easily from the fact that the "great tribulation" starts when the antichrist enters the temple, declaring himself he is god. That is 1260 days. It is also when he declares genocide against Jews and Christians.

As the last 7 years finish the 70 weeks of Daniel, we know in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years), He cause the sacrifice and oblations to cease. that is because He entered the temple itself. So we have three and 1/2 years from the start of the wrath of the lamb until the antichrist enters the temple and then 3 1/2 years until Jesus returns and defeats him at Petra and slays him in Jerusalem. But that is only if you take God at His Word and not have to rewrite it to suit an allegorist agenda.

Dispensationalism's "God at His Word" contorts Christ into antichrist.

It is the abomination of desecration.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your spelling is abysmal. Try a spell checker if you cannot spell the word "the." Most of us learnt this by the age of 5.

You really do not get it. The tribulation of Satan on God's people is completely different to the wrath of God on the wicked. They could not be more diverse.

There is no rapture mentioned in Dan 9. You must force it in there. It is long-fulfilled and refers to the First Advent of Messiah.

Thank you for pointing out the mote in my eye.

There is no "tribulation of Satan" in the bible. The entire 7 years is the wrath of God and the Lamb.

And the rapture was not being talked about so this is just a red herring.

 

[WPM]

Thank you for pointing out the mote in my eye.

There is no "tribulation of Satan" in the bible. The entire 7 years is the wrath of God and the Lamb.

And the rapture was not being talked about so this is just a red herring.

How about giving us a quote in Revelation to your imaginary 7-year trib?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How about giving us a quote in Revelation to your imaginary 7-year trib?

Trick question and you know it! Eschatology is a subject scattered throughout many books of the bible. We get bits and pieces here and there and it is up to us to build the puzzle correctly. YOu tend to cut the pieces to fit them as you want them through your reinterpreting Scripture

But as for the 7 years- it s main passage is Daniel 9, it is also shown in Matt. 24 and in REv. 11-13

1. Daniel 9- The antichrist makes a 7 year covenant with Israel.
2. In the midst of the 7 years he causes teh sacrifice and oblation to cease.
3. Matt. 24- Jesus warns of the AOD in the midst of the temple.
4. Thess. tells us it is the antichrist who will stand in the midst of the temple.
5. He does this in REv. after He rises from the dead and the FP orders all to worship him and take his mark.

 

[WPM]

Trick question and you know it! Eschatology is a subject scattered throughout many books of the bible. We get bits and pieces here and there and it is up to us to build the puzzle correctly. YOu tend to cut the pieces to fit them as you want them through your reinterpreting Scripture

But as for the 7 years- it s main passage is Daniel 9, it is also shown in Matt. 24 and in REv. 11-13

1. Daniel 9- The antichrist makes a 7 year covenant with Israel.
2. In the midst of the 7 years he causes teh sacrifice and oblation to cease.
3. Matt. 24- Jesus warns of the AOD in the midst of the temple.
4. Thess. tells us it is the antichrist who will stand in the midst of the temple.
5. He does this in REv. after He rises from the dead and the FP orders all to worship him and take his mark.

Once again: "the" is spelt "the" not "teh" as you habitually spell it. Try using a spell checker if you cannot spell the word.

You are absolutely twisting Scripture to make it say what you want.

There is absolutely no mention of a rapture or a 3rd coming in Daniel 9. It is a historic passage already long-fulfilled. This truly sums up Pretrib hermeneutics. With this mode of interpretation, you could literally make the Bible say whatever you wanted to say. There is no mention of a 7-year trib or antichrist. You again force your opinions into the text. There is no other rapture text that teaches a 7-year trib following or any prolonged trib period. Where in Matthew 24 or Revelation 11-13 does it mention a 7-year trib? That is a Pretrib invention. Neither Thessalonians or Revelation show a rapture followed by a trib period. This is elaborate would man-made invention.

The burden of proof is still with you. You repeat what you have been taught, but you have zero support in the sacred text.

 

[WPM]

Dispensationalism's "God at His Word" contorts Christ into antichrist.

It is the abomination of desecration.

True bro!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Once again: "the" is spelt "the" not "teh" as you habitually spell it. Try using a spell checker if you cannot spell the word.

Maybe I won't and allow God to teach you to suffer invalids with a little more patience. I use spell checker, and sometime I just miss it. but I would rather stand before God and answer for spelling the wrong , than in reinterpreting His Word like you are guilty of.

There is absolutely no mention of a rapture or a 3rd coming in Daniel 9. It is a historic passage already long-fulfilled. This truly sums up Pretrib hermeneutics. With this mode of interpretation, you could literally make the Bible say whatever you wanted to say. There is no mention of a 7-year trib or antichrist. You again force your opinions into the text. There is no other rapture text that teaches a 7-year trib following or any prolonged trib period. Where in Matthew 24 or Revelation 11-13 does it mention a 7-year trib? That is a Pretrib invention. Neither Thessalonians or Revelation show a rapture followed by a trib period. This is elaborate would man-made invention.

As I never said there was- this is just a red herring and false argument on your part.