4 years are left until the year 6,000 and the return of Yeshua

[Matthias]

Revelation 6:9-11 are these souls in Heaven?

I’m a resurrection man. The resurrection hasn’t yet happened at that point, and no one will be going to heaven when they’re resurrected at Messiah’s return.

So, could you tell I’ve been reading Tertullian? And Daniel?

 

[RLT63]

I’m a resurrection man. The resurrection hasn’t yet happened at that point, and no one will be going to heaven when they’re resurrected at Messiah’s return.

So, could you tell I’ve been reading Tertullian? And Daniel?

So how do you explain these souls under the altar crying out? They were told to rest a little longer. They have been killed but they are conscious and aware.

 

[Matthias]

So how do you explain these souls under the altar crying out? They were told to rest a little longer. They have been killed but they are conscious and aware.

The same way I explain Abel’s blood crying out from the ground (Genesis 4:10).

How do you explain it?

And Tertullian?

And Daniel?

I feel like this is becoming a one-way conversation.

 

[RLT63]

The same way I explain Abel’s blood crying out from the ground (Genesis 4:10).

How do you explain it?

And Tertullian?

And Daniel?

I feel like this is becoming a one-way conversation.

That's a good answer but not an explanation. What about Daniel? I must have missed something.

 

[Matthias]

That's a good answer but not an explanation.

Since I haven’t given an explanation, why do you think it’s a good answer?

I asked how you explain it, and you didn’t answer.

What about Daniel? I must have missed something.

I asked if you could tell I have been reading Daniel (and Tertullian, a couple of times).

You aren’t required to answer anything. I can handle it; I talk to the wind. But I’m trying to establish relationship, and now I’m beginning to wonder why you aren’t answering questions I’m asking you. It’s happening a lot lately, in multiple threads.

 

[RLT63]

Since I haven’t given an explanation, why do you think it’s a good answer?

I asked how you explain it, and you didn’t answer.



I asked if you could tell I have been reading Daniel (and Tertullian, a couple of times).

You aren’t required to answer anything. I can handle it; I talk to the wind. But I’m trying to establish relationship, and now I’m beginning to wonder why you aren’t answering questions I’m asking you. It’s happening a lot lately, in multiple threads.

I don't know enough about Tertullian to know if he's influencing you. Daniel's 70 weeks are certainly the key to understanding the end times (have you read The Coming Prince?) I explain the souls of the martyrs the same way Jesus explains Lazarus and the rich man.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know enough about Tertullian to know if he's influencing you.

He writes extensively on martyrdom. He is influencing me. I’ve read about a dozen of his works in the last 30 days or so. He and I have areas of differences and areas of agreement. I’ve really enjoyed reading, and in some cases re-reading, him.

Daniel's 70 weeks are certainly the key to understanding the end times (have you read The Coming Prince?)

If it’s the book written by Sir Robert Anderson, yes. [It was one of the books from my grandfather’s library that I inherited.] If it’s not, then probably not. Off the top of my head I can’t think of any others.

I explain the souls of the martyrs the same way Jesus explains Lazarus and the rich man.

So do I, and yet we don’t agree.

I just finished watching a movie called “The World, the Flesh and the Devil”. First time I’ve seen it. Have you seen it?

 

[RLT63]

He writes extensively on martyrdom. He is influencing me. I’ve read about a dozen of his works in the last 30 days or so. He and I have areas of differences and areas of agreement. I’ve really enjoyed reading, and in some cases re-reading him.



If it’s the book written by Sir Robert Anderson, yes. If it’s not, then probably not. Off the top of my head I can’t think of any others.



So do I, and yet we don’t agree.

I just finished watching a movie called “The World, the Flesh and the Devil”. First time I’ve seen it. Have you seen it?

Yes it is the book by Andersen. I haven't seen that movie. If it's not on Prime, Netflix or Sling I probably won't. They fired a full time person where I work and told me I have to do my job and their's now so I don't have much time to read

 

[Matthias]

Yes it is the book by Andersen. I haven't seen that movie. If it's not on Prime, Netflix or Sling I probably won't. They fired a full time person where I work and told me I have to do my job and their's now so I don't have much time to read

I took early retirement, a little over six years ago. I don’t have as much time to read as I’d like to, but I’m still usually able to get in 3-4 hours of reading per day. Retirement hasn’t worked out quite the way I envisioned it, but it’s actually better than I thought it would be.

I’ll catch up with you later. Ol’ Tertullian would like to have a word with me before lights out.

 

[farouk]

Neat story, but it's only an association made by Jerome, who was translating from the Greek which doesn't say Rapture or "hapazo" but - ἁρπαγησόμεθα

It's a form of the Latin verb rapiō, which is translated "to catch up" or "take away" and the English noun is derived from it.

The exact same Latin verb is translated for the English words "rapids", "ravish", and "rape"-- all of which remain true to the understanding of being carried away forceably.

@Mr E Caught up to avoid judgment on earth..........

 

[farouk]

It's okay. Not expecting it to happen then. Would be nice. Would be nice if it happens today. I prefer the Biblical stance that no one knows when the Lord is going to return except for our Heavenly Father. I'm not sure why people seem to waste so much time trying to predict when that will be. Then they're proven wrong over and over again. You'd think they'd finally catch on, right?

@dhh712 The victory is assured (1 Corinthians 15.57) and we need to remain stedfast while we wait for His return (1 Corinthians 15.57).

 

[shortangel]

now this is a prophesy i've never heard of, i've been reading about the Red Hefiers & the 3rd temple but not this one, will have to wait & see if it comes true or not

 

[gaviria.christian]

Members are discussing today, in another thread, red heifers and construction of the Third Temple. How do those things work with your four year timeline?

The two witnesses of Revelation will appear next year. They will destroy the Dome of the Rock, and initiate the rebuilding of the temple.

 

[Brakelite]

Just a point of interest... William Miller did indeed set a date for the second coming. October 22 1844. Based on Daniel 8:14.
When using the day for a year principle for prophetic time, as used by Bible scholars throughout the last 2000 years, his date of 10/22/1844 is absolutely accurate. I haven't met anyone who could refute the actual date. What her got wrong obviously was the event, the date itself was valid. The question to be asked, if not the second coming, what did take place at that time?

 

[Keraz]

Just a point of interest... William Miller did indeed set a date for the second coming. October 22 1844. Based on Daniel 8:14.
When using the day for a year principle for prophetic time, as used by Bible scholars throughout the last 2000 years, his date of 10/22/1844 is absolutely accurate. I haven't met anyone who could refute the actual date. What her got wrong obviously was the event, the date itself was valid. The question to be asked, if not the second coming, what did take place at that time?

The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, is the exact time between when Antiochus 4 E desecrated the Temple in 167 Gcm to when it was re-dedicated in 164 BC. A fulfilled prophecy.
The 'day for a year' is not a general principle at all. Only when we are specifically told it is, like Ezekiel 4:4-6

Anything special about 1844, is SDA rubbish.

 

[Brakelite]

The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days

The SDA understanding is built on sound biblical exegesis. Note...
It is most important to realize that up to this point in Daniel 8 the word for ‘vision’ has uniformly been the Hebrew word chazon. In fact, everything Daniel has seen up to this point is part of the chazon (the word is used 3 times in verses one and two). Thus, the vision (chazon) includes MedoPersia, Greece, pagan Rome and papal Rome. The King James Version of Daniel 8:13 reads as follows: “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” This reading leaves one with the impression that the vision includes only the portion that has to do with the removal of the daily, the transgression of desolation and the trampling of the sanctuary and the host. Actually the King James translation is wrong on two counts. The original Hebrew text does not contain the word ‘concerning’ nor does it contain the word ‘sacrifice’. The Hebrew literally reads: “Until when the vision [chazon], the daily [tahmid], and the rebellion that causes desolation to give both the sanctuary and the host a trampling? Thus when the angel asks the question: ‘Until when shall be the vision (chazon). . .’ he is not merely referring to the portion of the vision that describes the work of the little horn but rather to the total vision which began in verse 1. This proves that we must apply the year/day principle to the 2300 days. Two thousand three hundred literal days would cover a period of about six and one half years, a time span far too short to include the kingdoms of Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan and papal Rome. Thus the use of the word chazon in the angelic question requires that the 2300 days be understood as years!! The use of the word chazon in the angel’s question also helps us understand why the vision of Daniel 8 (contra Daniel 7) begins with the kingdom of Medo-Persia and not with the kingdom of Babylon. The reason is simple: The prophecy of the 2300 days begins during the period of the Medo-Persian Empire (457 b. c.) and not during the reign of Babylon. If Daniel had started the chazon with Babylon, he would have given the distinct impression that the prophecy of the 2300 days was to begin during the reign of Babylon!! Thus the vision begins with Medo-Persia because the 2300 days/years begin during the reign of Medo-Persia (see the chart at the end of this material). Daniel 8:14 constitutes the climax of the vision and immediately precedes the angelic explanation. There are several key considerations which must be taken into account as we analyze this all important verse.
Liberal scholars who see the little horn as a symbol for Antiochus Epiphanes offer the following convoluted interpretation: The 2300 evenings and mornings are really referring to 2300 evening and morning sacrifices.
If this idea were true, the end result would be: 1150 days x 2 sacrifices per day (morning and evening) = 2300 sacrifices! The reason why liberal scholars offer this novel interpretation is because they think they can make 1150 literal days fit much better with their Antiochus Epiphanes interpretation. Three main considerations make this interpretation unacceptable: 1) The expression in Daniel 8 is not ‘evening and morning sacrifices’. The translation ‘daily sacrifice’ for the word tamid is an unacceptable reading. There is a Hebrew expression for ‘daily sacrifice’ (olat tamid) but this is not the expression used in Daniel 8 (see Exodus 29:38-42) 2) The daily sacrifices were not called ‘evening and morning’ sacrifices but, rather, ‘morning and evening sacrifices’ (Exodus 29:39). There is no exception to this order of words! 3) The Hebrew of Daniel 8:14 literally reads: ‘Until evening-morning twenty three hundred. . .’ This precise order and terminology is used in Genesis one where, after each of the first six days of creation, we are told ‘it was the evening and morning of the first day, second day, third day’, etc. Here evening-morning is in the singular which is a clear indication that we are dealing with single unit composed of an evening and a morning. You cannot reduce the six days of creation to three any more than you can reduce the 2300 days to 1150!!
There are numerous reasons why Antiochus is not the person so many Christians believe him to be. He is not the little horn of Daniel 7 or 8. I can offer sound biblical reasons if you are interested. But, if all you want to do is write off SDA scholarship without investigation, believing they grabbed stuff out of thin air...

 

[ReChoired]

There are numerous reasons why Antiochus is not the person so many Christians believe him to be. He is not the little horn of Daniel 7 or 8. I can offer sound biblical reasons if you are interested ...

Indeed.

Looking at Antiochus IV Epiphanes [Epimanes, the mad one], and the failure of this person to fulfil the prophecies of Daniel 8's 'little horn':

"... He was not deficient in capacity or vigour of mind to make a figure in war; but [31] such perversity and indiscretion prevailed in his whole conduct and behaviour, that they soon changed the surname which they had given him, and instead of Epiphanes, called him Epimanes, or madman; for many were the acts of folly are madness which he committed. ..." Titus Livius; Livy's History of Rome, Volume 6, Book XLV [45] Chapter XIX [19] - The History of Rome, Vol. 6 - Online Library of Liberty - Online Library of Liberty

"... Wherefore to many he appeared not to know what he was doing; some said that he acted from a silly sportive temper; others, that he was evidently mad. ..." Titus Livius; Livy's History of Rome, Volume 6, Book XLV [45] Chapter XX [20] - The History of Rome, Vol. 6 - Online Library of Liberty - Online Library of Liberty

There are some who attempt, from the apocryphal books of Maccabees, to demonstrate that Antiochus IV Epiphanes fulfills the prophecies of Daniel 8's 'little horn', but now let us examine that source and see for ourselves that the claim cannot be defended.

For instance, we see that Epiphanes had 'ben a pledge at Rome' [1 Maccabees 1:11, Bishop's Bible 1568] [ie Hostage in youth at Rome, against his Father Antiochus III].

"... About this time, Antiochus, son to Antiochus the Great, who had been for a long time a hostage at Rome, came into possession of the kingdom of Syria, on the death of his brother Seleucus. ..." - Titus Livius; Livy's History of Rome, Volume 6, Book XLV [45] Chapter XIX [19] - The History of Rome, Vol. 6 - Online Library of Liberty - Online Library of Liberty

It only gets worse from here on out... as even according to history he [Antiochus IV] did not wax “exceeding great” by any standards, in Egypt [South], Jerusalem [Pleasant Land] or East [Medo-Persia], as his Father Antiochus III had, etc.

A lone Roman ambassador [Gaius Popillius Laenas from the Roman Senate] and some guards put him to flight in Egypt [ca. 168 BC], rescuing Egypt completely out of his hands:

"... XI. In the mean time, Antiochus, after a fruitless attempt against the walls of Alexandria, had retired; and being now master of all the rest of Egypt, he left, at Memphis, the elder Ptolemy, whose settlement on the throne was the pretended object of his armament, though, in reality, he meant to attack him, as soon as he should have vanquished his competitors; and, then, he led back his army into Syria. ..." - Titus Livius; Livy's History of Rome, Volume 6, Book XLV [45] Chapter XI [11] - The History of Rome, Vol. 6 - Online Library of Liberty - Online Library of Liberty

"... XII. When the time fixed for the suspension of hostilities, was elapsed, Antiochus ordered the commanders of his fleet to sail up the mouth of the Nile to Pelusium, while he himself entered Egypt, through the deserts of Arabia. He was amicably received by the people about Memphis, as he was, afterwards, by the rest of the Egyptians; some being led by inclination, others by fear; and he proceeded thus, by short marches, down to Alexandria. He had just crossed the river at Eleusine, four miles from that city, when he was met by [249] the Roman ambassadors. At their coming, he saluted them, and held out his right hand to Popillius; but Popillius putting into his hand a written tablet, desired him first to peruse that. On reading it, he said, that he would call his friends together, and consult what was to be done; on which Popillius, with that roughness which generally marked his character, drew a line round the King, with a wand which he held in his hand, and said, “Before you go out of that circle, give such an answer as I may report to the senate.” Astonished at such a peremptory injunction, the King hesitated for some time; but, at last, replied, “I will do as the senate directs.” Popillius then thought proper to stretch out his right hand to him; as to a friend and ally. Antiochus having retired out of Egypt, on a day prefixed, the ambassadors employed their influence in establishing concord among the royal family, on a more firm basis than it had yet acquired; and then sailed to Cyprus, from whence they sent home the ships of Antiochus, and which had fought and defeated an Egyptian fleet. This embassy attracted a great share of respect from all nations; having manifestly rescued Egypt out of the hands of the Syrian, when he had it within his grasp, and restored to the race of Ptolemy, the kingdom of their forefathers. ..." - Titus Livius; Livy's History of Rome, Volume 6, Book XLV [45] Chapter XII [12] - The History of Rome, Vol. 6 - Online Library of Liberty - Online Library of Liberty

 

[ReChoired]

There are numerous reasons why Antiochus is not the person so many Christians believe him to be. He is not the little horn of Daniel 7 or 8. I can offer sound biblical reasons if you are interested ...

Indeed.

Even the Jews [Judas Maccabees, etal. according to the apocryphal books of [1-4] Maccabees] threw him [his armies] out of Jerusalem, in the Maccabean revolt. And nowhere could it be said that he waxed exceeding great in the east [Media-Persian, area], dying there in great heaviness [sorrow/sadness] and dishonour [1 Maccabees 6:3-6, Bishop's Bible 1568]:

1 Maccabees 6:3 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Wherefore he went about to take the citie & to spoyle it, but he was not able: for the citezins were warned of it, and fought with him:

1 Maccabees 6:4 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And so he fled, and departed with great heauinesse, and came againe into Babylon.

1 Maccabees 6:5 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Moreouer, there came one which brought him tidinges in Persia, that his hoastes which were in the lande of Iuda were driuen away,

1 Maccabees 6:6 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And how that Lysias went foorth first with a great power, and was dryuen away of the Iewes, how that they had wonne the victory, and gotten great goodes out of the hoastes that perished,

Further more:

1 Maccabees 6:8 Bishop's Bible 1568 - So it chaunced, that when the king heard these wordes, he was afrayde, & greeued very sore: Wherefore he layde him downe vpon his bed, and fell sicke for very sorowe, and all because it had not happened as he had deuised.

1 Maccabees 6:9 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And there continued he long: for his griefe was euer more and more, so that he sawe he must needes dye.

1 Maccabees 6:10 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Therfore he sent for all his friendes, & saide vnto them: The sleepe is gone fro myne eyes for the very sorowe and vexation of heart that I haue.

2 Maccabees 9:1 Bishop's Bible 1568 - At the same time came Antiochus againe with dishonour out of Persia.

2 Maccabees 9:2 Bishop's Bible 1568 - For when he came to Persepolis, and vndertoke to robbe the temple, and to subdue the citie, the people ranne together and defended them selues, insomuch that he and his were faine to flee with shame: and so after that flight it happened that Antiochus came againe with dishonour.

and, by his own words, as given in 1 Maccabees, he dies, a miserable failure, in a “straunge lande” of the “east”, or just outside of Persia [and apparently, whose body, did Phillip bring down into Egypt, 2 Maccabees 9:29 Bishop's Bible 1568]:

1 Maccabees 6:13 Bishop's Bible 1568 - I know that these troubles are come vpon me for the same cause: and behold, I must dye with great sorowe in a straunge lande.

1 Maccabees 6:16 Bishop's Bible 1568 - So the king Antiochus died there, in the hundred fourtie and nine yere.

2 Maccabees 9:28 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Thus that murtherer and blasphemer of God was sore smitten: and like as he had intreated other men, so he died a miserable death in a straunge countrey vpon a mountayne.

Apparently, in 2 Maccabees, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, has a repentant heart, desires to repair all of the wrongs, rebuild the temple and become a Jew himself, and preach to the world, and sends a 'letter' as such [though dies miserably still], which is also not in harmony with the scriptural account of the “little horn”, which never repents:

2 Maccabees 9:13 Bishop's Bible 1568 - This wicked person prayed also vnto the Lorde, who nowe woulde haue no mercie vpon him:

2 Maccabees 9:14 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And as for the citie that he came vnto so hastyly, to bring it downe to the ground, and to make it a graue for dead men, now he desireth to deliuer it free:

2 Maccabees 9:15 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And as touching the Iewes, whom he had iudged not worthy to be buried, but woulde haue cast them out with their children, for to be deuoured of the foules and wilde beastes, [saying that he woulde haue destroyed both olde and young:] now he promysed to make them like the citezins of Athens:

2 Maccabees 9:16 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And where as he had spoyled the holy temple afore, nowe he maketh promyse to garnishe it with great giftes, to encrease the holy ornamentes, and of his owne rentes to beare the costes & charges belonging to the offringes:

2 Maccabees 9:17 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Yea and that he would also become a Iewe hym selfe, to go through euery place of the worlde that was inhabyted, and to preache the power of God.

2 Maccabees 9:18 Bishop's Bible 1568 - But when his paynes would not ceasse, (for the ryghteous iudgement of God was come vpon hym) out of a very dispayre he wrote vnto the Iewes a letter of intercession, conteyning these words:

2 Maccabees 9:19 Bishop's Bible 1568 - The king and prince Antiochus, wisheth vnto the vertuous citezins of the Iewes much health and good prosperitie.

2 Maccabees 9:20 Bishop's Bible 1568 - If ye and your children fare well, and if all thinges go after your minde, we geue great thankes.

2 Maccabees 9:21 Bishop's Bible 1568 - In my sicknesse also do I remember you louyngly: for as I came out of Persia, & was taken with sore disease, I thought it necessary to care for the common wealth:

2 Maccabees 9:22 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Neither dispaire I in my selfe, but haue a good hope to escape this sickenesse.

2 Maccabees 9:23 Bishop's Bible 1568 - But considering that my father led an hoast somtime in the higher places, and shewed who should raigne after him,

2 Maccabees 9:24 Bishop's Bible 1568 - That if there happened any controuersie, or any hard thing were declared, they in the lande might knowe their chiefe Lorde, that there should be no insurrection.

2 Maccabees 9:25 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Againe, when I ponder with my selfe, how that al the mightie men and neighbours rounde about are laying wayte, & loke but for oportunitie to do harme: I haue ordeined that my sonne Antiochus shall raigne after me, whom I oft commended to many of you, when I was in the higher kingdomes, & haue written vnto him as it foloweth hereafter.

2 Maccabees 9:26 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Therfore I pray you and require you to remember the benefites that I haue done vnto you generally and in especiall, and that euery man wil be faythfull to me and my sonne.

2 Maccabees 9:27 Bishop's Bible 1568 - For I hope that he shalbe of sober and louing behauour, and if he folowe my deuice, he shalbe indifferent vnto you.

Furthermore, many who [incorrectly] proclaim that Antiochus IV Epiphanes is a fulfillment of Daniel 8:9's “little horn” seem, also, to not closely consider the context or the exact order of events described therein with actual historical accounts. For instance, we read [KJB; bold red brackets added]

Daniel 8:9 KJB - And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward [1st] the south, and [2nd] toward the east, and [3rd] toward the pleasant [land].

The scripture [KJB] is perfectly given in “order” [1 Corinthians 15:23; Colossians 2:5 KJB], in its proper “courses” [Judges 5:20; 1 Kings 5:14; 2 Chronicles 31:2, 8:14 KJB]. There are numerous Biblical [KJB] examples that may be given upon request.

 

[ReChoired]

There are numerous reasons why Antiochus is not the person so many Christians believe him to be. He is not the little horn of Daniel 7 or 8. I can offer sound biblical reasons if you are interested ...

Indeed.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes did not wax “exceeding great”, by any known historically comparable standards, in any direction [in the south/Egypt, any territory he might have gained was immediately given up to Rome for fear of their entering into Battle against him, in Judaea, there were some temporary victories, but short-lived if at all, and ultimately humiliated by being utterly defeated by a band of rebellious Jews, and he ends up dying alone in great sadness in the east [at least in one book of Maccabees]], let alone do so in the proper course and order in which the “little horn” would do in [1] the south, [2] the east and [3] the pleasant land as the scripture [KJB] gives in Daniel 8:9. Instead, we read, even from the apocryphal [non-scriptural] source [Maccabees, as elsewhere], that he [Antiochus IV Epiphanes] attempted to gain territory in the [1] south, [2] pleasant land, [3] east, not being the order given in scripture [KJB]. For instance:

[1] south [according to 1 Maccabees, Bishop's Bible]:

1 Maccabees 1:17 Bishop's Bible 1568 - So when Antiochus began to be mightie in his kingdome, he went about to obtayne the lande of Egypt also, that he might haue the dominion of two realmes.

[2] pleasant land [according to 1 Maccabees, Bishop's Bible]:

1 Maccabees 1:21 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And after that Antiochus had smitten Egypt, he turned againe in the hundred fourtie and three yere, and went toward Israel,

[3] east [according to 1 Maccabees, Bishop's Bible]:

1 Maccabees 3:31 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Wherfore he was heauy in his minde, and thought to go into Persides for to take tributes of the lande, and so to gather much money.

1 Maccabees 6:1 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Now when king Antiochus trauailed thorough ye hie countries, he heard that Elymas in Persia was a noble and plenteous citie in siluer and golde,

1 Maccabees 6:2 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And that there was in it a very rich temple, where as were clothes, coate armours, and shieldes of golde, which Alexander the sonne of Philip king of Macedonia that raigned first in Grecia had left behinde him.

1 Maccabees 6:3 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Wherefore he went about to take the citie & to spoyle it, but he was not able: for the citezins were warned of it, and fought with him:

1 Maccabees 6:4 Bishop's Bible 1568 - And so he fled, and departed with great heauinesse, and came againe into Babylon.

1 Maccabees 6:5 Bishop's Bible 1568 - Moreouer, there came one which brought him tidinges in Persia, that his hoastes which were in the lande of Iuda were driuen away,

Thus, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, fails in fulfilling the prophecy [Daniel 8:9 KJB] in its specific and plainly given order [one may also consider 2 Maccabees 5:2,5,11, 9:1-28], as well as any claim to “exceeding great”, in any direction, or by any standards.

Looking further, in Daniel 8:23 KJB, we read of further identification, which cannot possibly be fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes IV:

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

For [1], Antiochus IV Epiphanes, was not in the “latter time”, but in the very early midst of it, being about the 7th King [175-164 BC], among many more [unto Antiochus XIII Asiaticus, 69-64 BC, some 100 years later], see “The House of Seleucus” image: Bible - Daniel 08 - The Seleucid (Greek) King List : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Just looking at the discrepancies of Maccabees, the apocryphal [non-Scriptural KJB] materials in regards Antiochus IV Epiphanes:

The Three Deaths of Antiochus Epiphanes in three locations in as many ways

First death - 1 Maccabees 6:1-16. According to this report he is in Persia and dies while in his own bed due to grief over military losses.

a) Location: Persia - 6:5
b) Place: in bed - 6:8
c) Cause: dies from a broken spirit due to military
reversals - 6:8, 9
d) People involved: friends - 6:10, Philip - 6:14
e) Dies: 6:16
f) Text: 1 Mac. 6:14 - 16
14 Then called he for Philip, one of his friends, whom he made ruler over his realm.
15 And gave him the crown, and his robe, and his signet, to the end he should bring up his son Antiochus, and nourish him up for the kingdom.
16 So king Antiochus died there in the hundred forty and ninth year.


Second death - 2 Maccabees 1:14-17. In this passage he is also in Persia, but is supposed to be assassinated in the temple of a false goddess Nanea …

a) Location: Persia - 1:13
b) Place: the temple of the goddess Nanea during his
wedding - 1:13 - 15
c) Cause: crushed to death by stones hurled down from the ceiling and then dismembered - 1:16
d) People involved: Antiochus' attendants & the priests
of Nanea who kill him - 1:15
e) Dies: 1:16
f) Text: 2 Mac. 1:14 - 16
14 For Antiochus, as though he would marry her, came into the place …
15 … and he was entered … they (priests of Nanea) shut the temple as soon as Antiochus was come in:
16 and opening a privy door of the roof, they threw stones like thunderbolts, and struck down the captain … smote off their heads …


Third death - 2 Maccabees 9:1-29. On his way to Jerusalem to wage war on the Jews, God curses him and he is eaten by worms, but before he dies he repents …

a) Location: the road to Jerusalem - 9:3 - 7
b) Place: on a mountain road - 9:8, 28
c) Cause:
1. God's curse on him - 9:5
2. He falls from his chariot - 9:7
3. worms eat him & his skin rots off - 9:9, 10
d) People involved: his chariot driver, his army - 9:4, 9
e) Dies: 9:28
f) In this account he repents and becomes a Jew and
then writes a letter of peace to the Jews.
g) Text: 2 Mac. 9:28
28 Thus the murderer and blasphemer having suffered most grievously … died in a miserable death in a strange country in the mountains. ..." - Sam Gipp's 24 Hour Seminar Notes, pages 78-80, reformatted.
We haven't even gotten to 3 and 4 Maccabees yet …

 

[ReChoired]

... There are numerous reasons why Antiochus is not the person so many Christians believe him to be. He is not the little horn of Daniel 7 or 8. I can offer sound biblical reasons if you are interested. ...

Indeed.

[A.] Preterism - Spanish Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613), who also wrote a commentary called Investigation of the Hidden Sense of the Apocalypse, which ran to some 900 pages. In it he proposed that it all of Revelation applied to the era of pagan Rome and the first six centuries of Christianity. According to Alcazar (or Alcasar) [1.] Revelation chapters 1-11 describes the rejection of the Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. [2.] Revelation chapters 12 - 19 were the overthrow of Roman paganism (the great harlot) and the conversion of the empire to the church. [3.] Revelation 20 describe the final persecutions by Antichrist, who is identified as Caesar Nero (54-68 A.D.), and judgment. [4]. Revelation 21 -22 describe the triumph of the New Jerusalem, the Roman Catholic Church. Alcazar found no application of prophecy to the middle ages or to the papacy. It differed in complete opposition to the Jesuit Francisco Ribera’s and Robert Bellarmine’s Futurism theology.