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Featured 42. Are We Free to Ignore God's Law if We are "Under Grace"?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by "ByGrace", Apr 14, 2019.

  1. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Another of @Willie T questions from his thread...

    Maybe it is "just me' but I'd like to see the Q and many Answer's all in one place, not hidden between other questions and answers! lol

    42. Are We Free to Ignore God's Law if We are "Under Grace"?
     
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  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Grace and faith uphold the law. Without the law no one can be saved...because no one can make an end run around the truth. Salvation must be great IN REALITY...not just in theory. We are to worship the Lord in Spirit and truth...not in a subjective view of ourselves being saved in spite of our lack of victory over sin.

    Without law we could not make the distinction of being in Christ. Taking away the law takes away the reality of being able to actually enter into Christ.

    Imagine someone standing in a field and looking up and saying...I'm flying right now. A fantasy. But that is what the majority of modern believers are doing. it takes away the ability to seek to really fly...making people take part in a fantasy world rather than becoming real pilots.

    But if you see a plane flying in the sky...and the same man says...that man is flying...then the reality is there.

    So then the truth takes reality into consideration. Law brings reality.

    So whoever says they are saved away from the law is really just saying it's make-believe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Grace = a new nature that loves holiness and hates sin. So we naturally keep the Law.
     
  4. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    ...this one for me is a bit trickier...I am on the run now...I will have to come back later.
     
  5. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    The only change I would make to that is -

    "so we supernaturally keep the law...in Him.." Grace= 'the power of God in us, to do what we can't do'. ( Strongs)

    ...later...H
     
  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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  7. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    The reality being death? Entering into His death and His resurrection unto Life?

    Romans 7:10-14
    [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me . [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


    Mark 16:3-4
    And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? [4] And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Being under grace means obedience to the Law (the Ten Commandments) by the power of the Holy Spirit. God provides the grace to obey Him.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    If you need to be told not to steal or murder, you cannot be trusted.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    When we come to realize that we are so broken....we can go to God to get His NT fix. A new creation. A new relationship with our Creator.
     
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  11. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    “When we come to realize that we are so broken” and enter into His death? 2 Corinthians 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

    2 Corinthians 10:12-15
    [12] For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. [13] But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. [14] For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure , as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ: [15] Not boasting of things without our measure, that is , of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    The Law which I believe you're speaking of ... the ten? if so, The Lord Jesus have fulfilled the Law, which is in the Spirit. Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
    but is it removed ... no, and here's why. 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers", ect... if one is not in christ Jesus, then they will face the Law. for our Righteousness is in Christ Jesus.

    Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Romans 2:15 "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    Romans 2:16 "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    PICJAG.
     
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  13. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, love it...well said.
     
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  14. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Asking if we can ignore the law sounds so disrespectful. We are not bound by the law nor are we required to keep it. To "ignore" it seems to me to not even acknowledge it ever existed.

    We shouldn't ignore the law in this respect. How will we respect the gift of Grace without knowing what we are delivered from?

    I have a feeling that wasn't what the question was looking at. If the question was about keeping the law, that's another ballgame. In short we cannot keep the law. It's never been done even by champions like Moses, David and Saul (the Paul Saul, not the Saul Saul).

    IF we could keep the law, would we be saved without grace? THAT is a question I don't have an answer for. It's a moot question though, as we cannot.

    So, should we even try to keep the law as much as we can? I have no problem with someone who tries. But it can NEVER be used as a gauge for holiness. Unless you keep the whole law, it doesn't matter how much of it you keep.

    In other words, keep as much of the law as you want or can... It doesn't bring you closer to God.
     
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  15. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Amen Bro!
    That should stir up the hornets :)

    The only way that we can keep the commands of the Father is to be hidden in Christ..then God can look at us and see us perfect in Him who kept all and did His Fathers will.
     
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    You are speaking of works of the law...not the reality or the righteousness of the law. So unless somebody is thinking of converting to Judaism your argument doesn't address the issue at hand. What is the relation of the law to grace? You have these working against each other which is the very opposite of truth.
     
  17. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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  18. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Well, John 1:17 says the law was given by Moses, BUT grace and truth came by Jesus. There seems to be a contrast there.

    Romans 5:20 says the law entered that the offense might abound, but where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.

    Galatians 2:21 informs us that we should not frustrate grace and that if righteousness came by the law then Christ is Dead in vain.

    I have more, but I am babysitting a three year old. But that shows the relationship between grace and the law.

    Now, I have to be a horsey.
     
  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I did not get THIS in my Alerts!
     
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  20. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    GRrrrr just like other things in life, they pick and choose what we get to see! :(
     
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