A Calvinist Conversation with God

[Robert Pate]

And yet you cannot show why they are false. Do you reject all five points of TULIP? So you would be an acolyte of Jacob Armenius then.

Pray tell please give us a summation of what you just called "the historic gospel of Jesus Christ".

I am going to make it short.

All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification and our salvation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am going to make it short.

All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification and our salvation.

No, His death and physical resurrection and our placing our trust in those is what saves us and justifies us before God.

But the first 31/2 years was Jesus announcing to Israel the Messianic kingdom had arrived (if they would receive it) the next 3 1/2 years was Jesus preparing and teaching the apostles for the building of the church.

 

[O'Darby]

It is not that I am bias against Calvinism, it is that I am pro Gospel. Calvinism is a terrible doctrine that makes God out to be an unmerciful tyrant. If you continue in it you will never see heaven. Martin Luther did not accept John Calvins doctrine of predestination. Hell is going to be full of Calvinist because it is blasphemy.

I am not a Calvinist. I am barely an Arminian. But Calvinism is internally logical and makes as much sense in its own way as Arminianism. If all of humanity is totally depraved and deserving of damnation, then God does indeed glorify himself by graciously saving anyone. The fact that the vast majority of humans are predestined for damnation may be "unappealing" to you or me, but it is not "terrible" within the framework of Calvinism. It's terrible only within the framework of those who think humans have some sort of inherent worth and should all be equally precious to God and have an equal opportunity for salvation. Why would you think all the faithful family members you describe were going to end up in hell under Calviniism - what reason is there to think the genuinely faithful are not among the predestined elect? To me, Arminianism and any other species of Christianity you care to hypothesize has just as much of a problem with a world in which the VAST majority of humans have no realistic opportunity or possibility of ever turning to Christ - so how is that "better"? The fact is, there is no Christian theology that really works in the sense of connecting all the dots and reconciling the world in which we live with an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. I would just let the Calvinists go their way and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Those calling out the false doctrines of calvinism will be richly rewarded in Heaven! View attachment 41742


View attachment 41741

A very appropriate cartoon that should be app.ied to all theological critics.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Jesus was not a calvinist

Yet Jesus taught that it was God who would give him those who would be saved.
John 10:My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yet Jesus taught that it was God who would give him those who would be saved.
John 10:My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Cherry picker deluxe!

ALL scripture comes from the Lord... and the Lord said all of these things
in His Word that proved limited atonement is false doctrine...

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Those that believe in limited atonement are cherry pickers who only accept bible verse that can be applied to their preconceived ideas... they are probably reading from the Cherry Pickers Bible

 

[Robert Pate]

Cherry picker deluxe!

ALL scripture comes from the Lord... and the Lord said all of these things
in His Word that proved limited atonement is false doctrine...

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Those that believe in limited atonement are cherry pickers who only accept bible verse that can be applied to their preconceived ideas... they are probably reading from the Cherry Pickers Bible View attachment 41890

View attachment 41889

They would rather believe the delusion than to believe God's word, 2 Thessalonians 2:11.

 

[Gottservant]

You guys are conflating what God asks of the flesh and what God asks of the spirit.

God asks of the flesh that it strengthen, God asks of the spirit that it manifest.

It is not necessary for flesh to manifest, hence it needn't reach Heaven and it is not necessary for spirit to strengthen and nothing else, hence it can reach from Heaven to Earth.

The point is there were some predestined to be fleshly and some predestined to be spirited, but both inhabit the same body, therefore one who is fleshly but does not live that way is exonerated and one that is spirited, but doesn't keep spirit from the other, is free to reach Heaven and beyond.

If the flesh dies, the spirit may live on, therefore to be predestined is a salvation; if the spirit is about to die, the flesh may comfort it, therefore for flesh to heed predestination, is a great salvation - for the flesh that comforts the spirit, receives the consolation that it may not die.

 

[rockytopva]

Always nice to run into a Spirit of Christ along with all that doctrine...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The point is there were some predestined to be fleshly and some predestined to be spirited

False calvinist doctrine

God is not dictating that some men are spiritually minded and be
saved while others are carnally minded and and are not saved.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am not a Calvinist. I am barely an Arminian. But Calvinism is internally logical and makes as much sense in its own way as Arminianism. If all of humanity is totally depraved and deserving of damnation, then God does indeed glorify himself by graciously saving anyone. The fact that the vast majority of humans are predestined for damnation may be "unappealing" to you or me, but it is not "terrible" within the framework of Calvinism. It's terrible only within the framework of those who think humans have some sort of inherent worth and should all be equally precious to God and have an equal opportunity for salvation. Why would you think all the faithful family members you describe were going to end up in hell under Calviniism - what reason is there to think the genuinely faithful are not among the predestined elect? To me, Arminianism and any other species of Christianity you care to hypothesize has just as much of a problem with a world in which the VAST majority of humans have no realistic opportunity or possibility of ever turning to Christ - so how is that "better"? The fact is, there is no Christian theology that really works in the sense of connecting all the dots and reconciling the world in which we live with an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. I would just let the Calvinists go their way and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

All mankind is destined to be lost. That is the result of the fall and making all of Adams offspring children of wrath by nature.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Mankind is naturally lost!

And GOD made it clear- believe on the Lord Jesus and you will believe!
If you don't believe you are lost?

If you are concerned about those who have never heard- what have you personally done to get the gospel to those who do not naturally hear. I travelled to communist china to witness to chinese who never heard. What about you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Those that believe in limited atonement are cherry pickers who only accept bible verse that can be applied to their preconceived ideas... they are probably reading from the Cherry Pickers Bible

YOu say that only because you do not know what atonement means

 

[O'Darby]

If you are concerned about those who have never heard- what have you personally done to get the gospel to those who do not naturally hear. I travelled to communist china to witness to chinese who never heard. What about you?

I don't know, what about me? I went door-to-door irritating frat boys and sorority girls with the Four Spiritual Laws 50 years ago and now I'm taking care of four feral kitties in my garage - where does that get me?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

YOu say that only because you do not know what atonement means

I go by what God's Word says... not what the nutjob calvinists claim.

I don't know, what about me? I went door-to-door irritating frat boys and sorority girls with the Four Spiritual Laws 50 years ago and now I'm taking care of four feral kitties in my garage - where does that get me?

It should get you a swift kick in the seat of yo pants!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't know, what about me? I went door-to-door irritating frat boys and sorority girls with the Four Spiritual Laws 50 years ago and now I'm taking care of four feral kitties in my garage - where does that get me?

Lots of dirty kitty litter.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

go by what God's Word says... not what the nutjob calvinists claim.

If only you did. You make claims and post little to no Scriptures to support your claims.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You make claims and post little to no Scriptures to support your claims.

calvinists wouldn't know truth if someone slapped them upside they head with it!

I've been thru many conversations with calvinists posting tons of scripture and have found they are
reprobate and unable to hear the truth so not a lot of point in wasting time on them going forward.

Now, if I run across someone who genuinely wants to learn how calvinism is heresy and why it
should be ignored and departed from, I'd put time in for them.

 

[Gottservant]

False calvinist doctrine View attachment 42459

God is not dictating that some men are spiritually minded and be
saved while others are carnally minded and and are not saved.

As I said "sometimes the flesh can save the spirit" and "sometimes the spirit can redeem the flesh"

If you understood that God relates to the flesh differently, than the spirit, you would free yourself of needing prejudice at all.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

As I said "sometimes the flesh can save the spirit" and "sometimes the spirit can redeem the flesh"

If you understood that God relates to the flesh differently, than the spirit, you would free yourself of needing prejudice at all.

Mo False calvinist doctrine

 

[Gottservant]

Mo False calvinist doctrine View attachment 42573

Are you saying that God wills the same for the flesh and for the spirit?