Calvinist: Well Lord here I am in heaven with you. Thank you for predestinating me to be saved before the foundation of the world. But Lord where are my parents that faithfully served you as missionaries in Africa for over 40 years? God: They were not chosen. Calvinist: But Lord, where are my brothers and sister that were faithful Sunday school teachers for over 20 years? God: They were not chosen. But Lord, What about my wife and children? I taught them to be faithful to you and they are not here. God: Sit down and shut up, you are asking to many questions. I will chose who I will and damn who I will. Am I not the God of Calvinism. Now, shut up or I will unchose you.
A Calvinist Conversation with God
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Your unreasonable bias against Calvin is well know. You bias is such that you regard Calvin's as not being Christian, yet history has this list of people where they all non-Christian.
Famous Calvinists Of The Past:
- Arthur W. Pink: 1886-1952 (Bible teacher, theologian and author of “The Sovereignty Of God” and other excellent books)
- Augustus Toplady: 1740-1778 (author of “Rock Of Ages” and other hymns)
- B. B. Warfield: 1851–1921 (principal of the Princeton Theological Seminary)
- Benjamin Keach: 1640-1704 (primary author of the 1689 Baptist Confession)
- Loraine Boettner: 1901-1990 (author of “The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination”)
- B.H. Carroll: 1843-1914 (founder South Western Theological Seminary)
- Charles Hodge: 1797–1878 (Presbyterian theologian and principal of Princeton Theological Seminary)
- Charles Spurgeon: 1834-1892 (famous Baptist preacher in England)
- Cornelius Van Til: 1895–1987 (Christian philosopher and Reformed theologian at Westminster Theological Seminary)
- Francis Schaeffer: 1912-1984 (author of “How Shall We Then Live” video series)
- George Mueller: 1805-1898 (Christian evangelist and orphanage director)
- George Whitefield:1714-1770 (evangelist, preacher and one of the founders of Methodism)
- Isaac Watts: 1674–1748 (hymn writer, theologian, pastor)
- J.C. Ryle: 1816-1900 (writer, pastor, evangelical preacher)
- J.P. Boyce: 1827-1888 (founder Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)
- John Bunyan: 1628-1688 (author of Pilgrim’s Progress)
- John Calvin: 1509-1564 (preacher & Bible scholar)
- John Gresham Machen: 1881–1937 (American Presbyterian theologian at Princeton Seminary, founded the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, founded Westminster Theological Seminary)
- John L. Dagg: 1794-1884 (Baptist theologian)
- John Foxe: 1516-1587 (author of Foxe’s Book Of Martyrs)
- John Gill: 1697-1771 (renowned theologian and Bible commentary author)
- John Knox: 1513-1572 (founder of Presbyterianism)
- John Newton: 1725-1807 (wrote the hymn “Amazing Grace”)
- John Owen: 1616-1683 (theologian and author)
- Jonathan Edwards: 1703-1758 (evangelist, preacher, author of “Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God”)
- Martyn Lloyd-Jones: 1834-1892 (pastor and theologian)
- Martin Luther: 1483-1546 (Protestant Reformer)
- Matthew Henry: 1662-1712 (famous Bible commentary author)
- Roger Williams: 1603-1683 (founded the first Baptist church in America)
- Ulrich Zwingli: 1484–1531 (a leader of the Protestant Reformation in Switzerland)
- William Carey: 1761-1834 (missionary to India)
- William Wilberforce: 1759-1833 (slavery abolitionist in England)
- Zacharias Ursinus: 1534–1583 (Reformed theologian in Germany)
It is not that I am bias against Calvinism, it is that I am pro Gospel. Calvinism is a terrible doctrine that makes God out to be an unmerciful tyrant. If you continue in it you will never see heaven. Martin Luther did not accept John Calvins doctrine of predestination. Hell is going to be full of Calvinist because it is blasphemy.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Your straw man and prepubescent phony conversation do nothing to add to your stature or respect.
But if you knew the Word of God, if that phony persons parents and brothers and sisters were not in heaven, the bible has very clear and unambiguous declarations as to why.
You imply that if one works faithfully for the Lord, their works will save them.
If works could save, we would not need Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
If you find yourself in hell it will not be the fault of God or his Son Jesus Christ. God has done all that he can do to save fallen man.
If you find yourself in hell, it will be because you rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided for everyone, Ephesians 2:8.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I will find myself in heaven because I have been called and saved by the blood of Jesus.
So that long list of famous Christians and all there converts are going to he'll because they are calvenists.
Do you not see the contradiction in your opening response to me.
You say you don't have a bias against Calvin's, that you are pro the gospel.
To take one name, William Carrie, he spent his life preaching the gospel in India, many Came to know zchrist, were taught Calvin's.
Yet you judge them as bound for hell because they believe in Calvin's.
I think the only monster is your thoughts about other Christians.
Calvinism is a false doctrine that was conceived in the twisted, perverted mind of John Calvin. If you really want to know the truth about John Calvin, Google "The recorded atrocities of John Calvin" He thought nothing of burning people to death that disagreed with him. Maybe you don't see anything wrong with that?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Now you are trying to be a mind reader?????
I know whom I believe in and what His Word has taught me.
Teh five points of Calvinism are based on plain biblical statements.
How many of the five points of Calvinism do you believe in?????????????????
T=total depravity-- mankind is now lost because of Adams sin. We are not as bad as we can be, but we are as bad off as we can be-lost.
U= unconditional election-- there are no preconditions man has to do to be saved. As the song at Billy Graham crusades sang--"Just as I am I come".
L= limited atonement-- while Jesus is the acceptable sacrifice for the sins of the world(propitiation) only the elect receive the benefit of His atoning death.
I= Irresistible Grace-- As it is written no one can come to me unless the father draw him. The saved are drawn to jesus by the Father. And as
Jesus also said" all that the Father hath given me shall come to me."
P= Perseverance of the saints-- When a person is saved they are saved forever.
Sop how many of these do you accept and how many do you reject?.
The branch on your tulip that says "Limited atonement" is probably the worst and is the one that will condemn you to hell.
If you believe that Jesus only atoned for some sins, but not all sins, you just cooked your goose.
Limited atonement is a declaration that Jesus Christ is a failure. He only atoned for some sins, but not all sin. When you walk into the judgment, and you tell the just judge that Jesus Christ is a failure. More than likely, you will disappear in a puff of smoke.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Your answer shows that you do not know the difference between atonement and propitiation. Jesus did not remove every ones sin (atonement), But that He is the acceptable sacrifice for the sins of the world (propitiation).
Limited atonement teaches that while Jesus died for the sins of the world, only the elect (and they are shown because they trust HIm by faith) , receive the removal of sins from their account.
If every one had the penalty of their sin removed, then universalism would be true which it is not.
In order to have ones sins removed from their account (atonement) one has to receive Christ by faith!
Jesus did not fail in the least. And as I know I have eternal life given to me by Jesus HImself, I do not worry about you committing idolatry, claiming to yourself the right to decide who is saved and not and implying I am lost.
Your doctrine is a declaration the Jesus is not Lord.
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus has fulfilled every jot and title of the law, Matthew 5:18. The Bible also teaches that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 and that we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10.
Jesus now sits in heaven as, "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:126.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Your slander and lies about what I believe are a sad testimony of your juvenile thinking.
Yes Jesus fulfilled the law.
You need to reread 1 John 2:2 Jesus is not the atonement for the sins of the world, but the propitiation of the sins of the world.
Jesus right now is our heavenly high priest and advocate. He will be crowned by God the Father as King of Kings when the Father tells HIm to come get His bride (the rapture.
Now go learn the difference between propitiation (hilasmos) and atonement (katallage), and be educated.
If Jesus had not atoned for the sins of the whole world he would not be in heaven as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. He would still be in Josephs new tomb.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
That is what you say, but that is not what the bible says anywhere. You cannot find one verse in Scripture that says Jesus atoned for the sins of the world at Calvary. But you will find that He made propitiation for the sins of the whole world, which makes atoning for sin possible, but with teh caveat one must accept His death and resurrection by faith.
Do you have a Bible? Try turning to 1 John 2:2. The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has atoned for all sin and that he is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17. However, nothing is ours unless it is received by faith.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
1 John 2:2
King James Version
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.Now for the second time, please go learn the difference between propitiation (hilasmos) and atonement(katallage)
The word "propitiation" basically means gracious. God was gracious when he atoned for our sins. It does not change the meaning of the scripture.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOu should stop digging a deeper hole for yourself.
Why don't you simply look up in a dictionary what propitiation and atonement mean, see they are different and stop making up your own definitions to advance an unbiblical agenda.
You do not have to be honest with me, but please be honest before your God.
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