A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Kermos]

What could be a bigger change than God supposedly becoming flesh? You can't have it both ways.

Prologue

Some history needs to be established

You persist trying to undo the Word of God who decisively says "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

It is written "the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.” (Prophet Samuel, 1 Samuel 15:29).

You do this because you desperately lust to change the meaning of the Hebrew word אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (eyheh, am, Strong's 1961), which is an imperfect verb properly being translated is "I AM" in Exodus 3:14. The "I" occurs because eyheh is singular in Hebrew. This links back to a comprehensive explanation about perfect and imperfect verbs (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread).

Your desire is to obliterate linguistics by exclusively changing eyhey to mean "I will be". Your imagination results in God being absent, that is, God not being continually present; furthermore, your strange definition results in God changing, even God coming into existence after the burning bush event.

The exhibits collectively illuminate that Jesus' birth as truly Man did NOT cause God to change.

Exhibit 1

"And the Word manifested flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

The source Greek word for "manifested" is ἐγένετο (Strong's 1096 - verb - come, happen, manifest - BibleHub.com).

When I examined all the occurrences in the New Testament Concordance of ἐγένετο, the source Greek word for "manifested", then I found that "manifested" predominantly expresses the meaning accurately in all verses.

The concordance for ἐγένετο, the specific word that appears in John 1:14, is available at this BibleHub.com link, so it is abundantly clear that manifested is the proper translation for ἐγένετο.

"The Word manifested flesh" does not say that God changed.

"The Word manifested flesh" does not say that Jesus was created.

"The Word manifested flesh" does say that Jesus wonderfully revealed Himself as truly Man (Luke 1:26-33).

Notice, John 1:14 harkens to Jesus being truly Man, as in the Son of Man (Matthew 24:30-31) referring back to the prophecy of Daniel (Daniel 7:13-14).

The Word continues to be truly God always, even before being born of the virgin (Matthew 1:23, John 8:58), during His life on Earth (John 10:36), and after His Resurrection (Matthew 28:17-20).

Exhibit 2

God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:19-20) means that God's Plan from ancient times was for Jesus to come as Savior of the world (John 4:42), so Jesus manifesting flesh is continuity of God's Plan.

God adhering to God's Plan for Jesus manifesting flesh represents God not changing.

God ordained long ago that Jesus would come to Earth. God knew it all along.

God is unchanging, and God's Plan is unchanging.

Exhibit 3

An important Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" plays an important role with respect to Jesus being truly God.

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" equates to the Father being God and the Son being God

Lord Jesus says "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 4:18).

Immediately after Jesus says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), the very next thing He says is "I showed you many good works from the Father" (John 10:31).

See that God is good alone, and see that good in Jesus as recorded in John 10:31.

Moreover, the Jews response to Jesus' "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) is reminiscent of "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The Apostle John expressed his very own observations and belief that the Son of God is equal to God according to John's linguistic construction of the sentence (John 5:18); moreover, no one is equal to God except for God and there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4); therefore, Jesus is God.

Since Jesus distinguishes between truly Man and truly God, then "the Word manifested flesh" (John 1:14) proclaims Jesus Christ's existence as truly Man manifesting flesh without changing His existence as truly God.

Truly Man Jesus manifesting flesh manifests along with truly God Jesus existing as unchanging YHWH God (John 8:58).

Exhibit 4

All the fullness of the God dwells bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9).

Jesus exists as truly God before truly Man's incarnation (bodily flesh form on Earth) in the virgin's womb, during the Incarnate truly Man's life on Earth, and after the truly Man's death then He continues in bodily form gloriously enthroned in Heaven.

In other words, this is expressive of two timelines for Jesus.

Timeline One for Jesus As Truly Man

1. DURING: truly Man during the Incarnate Man's life on Earth.
2. AFTER: truly Man continuing after the Man's death in bodily form in Heaven.

Timeline Two for Jesus As Truly God

1. BEFORE: truly God before the Man's incarnation (bodily flesh form on Earth) in the virgin's womb.
2. DURING: truly God during the Incarnate Man's life on Earth.
3. AFTER: truly God continuing after the Man's death in bodily form in Heaven.

Notice the difference.

The truly God time-line has a BEFORE; on the other hand, the truly Man time-line lacks a BEFORE.

Truly God Jesus is unchanging YHWH God (Deuteronomy 6:4, Malachi 3:6) because all the fullness of the God dwells bodily in truly Man Jesus (Colossians 2:9).

Conclusion

The Word of God is true, "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

Truth is written "the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.” (Prophet Samuel, 1 Samuel 15:29).

God did not change with Jesus being truly Man.

Jesus remained rock steadily God with Jesus being truly Man.

Your heart wickedly adulterates the Word of God into "I, YHWH, change for Israel", so that is no longer the Word of God but it's the word of you.

You disbelieve in who the Word of God says God is.

You mock God. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap (Galatians 6:7). Really, you sow wickedness of your flesh by your way of your words, and the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (Galatians 6:7).

 

[Rich R]

Prologue

Some history needs to be established

You persist trying to undo the Word of God who decisively says "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

It is written "the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.” (Prophet Samuel, 1 Samuel 15:29).

Malachi and Samuel are certainly good verses, but they're not the only ones in the scriptures. We need to include all 31,103 verses in order to develop our doctrine.

Exod 32:9-14,

9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit [it] for ever​

14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

• At first God said, "that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them:"
• Moses prayed and God, "repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

You can take that however you want, but it sure looks to me like God changed His mind. There are numerous examples just like this in the OT. Could it be that part of God's unchanging character is that He is resourceful enough to adapt to the decisions free will individuals make? If not, how do you explain the difference between verses 10 & 14 in Exodus 14?

​

 

[Rich R]

.Exhibit 4

All the fullness of the God dwells bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9).

Jesus exists as truly God before truly Man's incarnation (bodily flesh form on Earth) in the virgin's womb, during the Incarnate truly Man's life on Earth, and after the truly Man's death then He continues in bodily form gloriously enthroned in Heaven.

In other words, this is expressive of two timelines for Jesus.

Well, I'd just say that Colossians 2:9 says the God dwelt in Jesus. I don't see anything about incarnation, Mans life, Man's death, or Mary's womb? Perhaps you're reading your preconceived ideas into a rather simple verse?

God planted perfect seed in Mary's worm, hence Jesus started out perfect as did Adam. Part of that perfection is free will and thus both could sin or both could obey. Adam used his free will to sin. Jesus used his free will to obey. Not sure why that is so difficult or, worse yet, why it's heresy, makes me deceived, makes me wicked, or any of the other lovely ways you are so bent on applying to me. Not that I mind. You are the one walking in darkness, not me.

1 John 2:11,

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.​

 

[Kermos]

Well, I'd just say that Colossians 2:9 says the God dwelt in Jesus. I don't see anything about incarnation, Mans life, Man's death, or Mary's womb? Perhaps you're reading your preconceived ideas into a rather simple verse?

God planted perfect seed in Mary's worm, hence Jesus started out perfect as did Adam. Part of that perfection is free will and thus both could sin or both could obey. Adam used his free will to sin. Jesus used his free will to obey. Not sure why that is so difficult or, worse yet, why it's heresy, makes me deceived, makes me wicked, or any of the other lovely ways you are so bent on applying to me. Not that I mind. You are the one walking in darkness, not me.

1 John 2:11,

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Malachi and Samuel are certainly good verses, but they're not the only ones in the scriptures. We need to include all 31,103 verses in order to develop our doctrine.

Exod 32:9-14,

9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit [it] for ever

14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

At first God said, "that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them:"
Moses prayed and God, "repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
You can take that however you want, but it sure looks to me like God changed His mind. There are numerous examples just like this in the OT. Could it be that part of God's unchanging character is that He is resourceful enough to adapt to the decisions free will individuals make? If not, how do you explain the difference between verses 10 & 14 in Exodus 14?

I guess you have me all figured out. The thing I don't understand is why you bother reading anything I write. Clearly, to you, it is 100% error.

Do you just enjoy belittling those who don't think exactly as yourself?

I proclaim the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) to you, and you call such proclamation hateful, so you really call the Word of God hateful.

Clearly, you have two gods because Paul wrote that all the fullness of the God dwells bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9); therefore, Paul labels Jesus "the Great God" (Titus 2:13) with his writings in Colossians 2:9.

Colossians 2:9 was mentioned in Exhibit 4, but you neglected all the related scripture such as John 1:14, Matthew 24:30-31, and Daniel 7:13-14 and more in Exhibit 1; 1 Peter 1:19-20 and John 4:42 in Exhibit 2; and Luke 1:26-33, Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31, and more in Exhibit 3.

You are in violation of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) since you think Jesus gives you salvation before YHWH.

You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links:

Despite being confronted by the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus manifesting flesh as truly Man exists with the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus as truly God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1681 in this thread), you foolishly persist in your delusion of destruction that Jesus is not YHWH God.

moreover

You evilly use your flattering tongue to additionally spread lies about Jesus such as your heart's deception that Jesus is not God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1554 in this thread), and you deny Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God by your wicked thoughts that clear verses "are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God", and you disrespect and dishonor the Holy Name of God showing your wolf in sheep's clothing internals.

moreover

You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).

moreover

In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.

moreover

You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

moreover

You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.

moreover

By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.

moreover

In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

moreover

(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.

moreover

You show your utter disrespectful contempt for the Word of God by trying to change the meaning of the Hebrew language (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1660 in this thread), even after you've been shown the word for Strong's 5162 means "to be sorry, console oneself", not "repent", but truly something akin to "sorrow"; IN EFFECT, YOU LABEL YHWH GOD A CONFUSED FOOL THAT LIES.

moreover

You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God

You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Rich R]

I proclaim the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) to you, and you call such proclamation hateful, so you really call the Word of God hateful.

Clearly, you have two gods because Paul wrote that all the fullness of the God dwells bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9); therefore, Paul labels Jesus "the Great God" (Titus 2:13) with his writings in Colossians 2:9.

Colossians 2:9 was mentioned in Exhibit 4, but you neglected all the related scripture such as John 1:14, Matthew 24:30-31, and Daniel 7:13-14 and more in Exhibit 1; 1 Peter 1:19-20 and John 4:42 in Exhibit 2; and Luke 1:26-33, Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31, and more in Exhibit 3.

You are in violation of the commandant "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) since you think Jesus gives you salvation before YHWH.

You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links:

Despite being confronted by the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus manifesting flesh as truly Man exists with the Word of God clearly indicating that Jesus as truly God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1681 in this thread), you foolishly persist in your delusion of destruction that Jesus is not YHWH God.

moreover

You evilly use your flattering tongue to additionally spread lies about Jesus such as your heart's deception that Jesus is not God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1554 in this thread), and you deny Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God by your wicked thoughts that clear verses "are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God", and you disrespect and dishonor the Holy Name of God showing your wolf in sheep's clothing internals.

moreover

You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).

moreover

In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.

moreover

You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

moreover

You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.

moreover

By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.

moreover

In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

moreover

(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.

moreover

You show your utter disrespectful contempt for the Word of God by trying to change the meaning of the Hebrew language (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1660 in this thread), even after you've been shown the word for Strong's 5162 means "to be sorry, console oneself", not "repent", but truly something akin to "sorrow"; IN EFFECT, YOU LABEL YHWH GOD A CONFUSED FOOL THAT LIES.

moreover

You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God

You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

Did I get anything right, just one little thing?

 

[Kermos]

That is YHWH in Hebrew. We dont speak Hebrew, So by your own council you can never use-Job, Jeremiah, Joshua, etc. Yet those names are in your bible showing your reasoning is faulty.
The post you answered is 100% fact. Your scholars will tell you its fact. So the question is. Why wont you believe truth? The answer is-your translations teach 2 different truths,2 different Gods because they are filled with error and altered by satans will.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

The Masoretic Texts of post seventh century to pre fourteenth century A.D. contain YHWH mixed with "Adonai" except the Masoretes exchanged an E for the A that starts the word Adonai then they took every other vowel starting with the first A resulting in the insertion of "eoa" into God’s Holy Name. See that "eoa" is every other letter in the word Jehovah.

The Masoretes devised the system with the intent to warn people of various languages not to use God's Holy Name of יהוה in vain.

Essentially, the Masoretes intentionally created a code separated by an order of magnitude from God's Holy Name of יהוה.

Some English translators took the Masoretic man-made devised code into English as Jehovah.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

Your bible is corrupt, and you are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Taken]

• At first God said, "that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them:"
• Moses prayed and God, "repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

You can take that however you want, but it sure looks to me like God changed His mind. There are numerous examples just like this in the OT. Could it be that part of God's unchanging character is that He is resourceful enough to adapt to the decisions free will individuals make? If not, how do you explain the difference between verses 10 & 14 in Exodus 14?

God reveals MANY things that He MAY DO....and WHY.
God also MAY NOT DO....when People repent and they CHANGE.

 

[Kermos]

Did I get anything right, just one little thing?

Dear Rich R,

Since you get Jesus false (your thoughts that Jesus is not God), then Jesus the Truth (John 14:6) is not in you.

There is NO Scripture that states Jesus was created. No Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) limits "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

The Word of God says "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins"

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Rich R]

God reveals MANY things that He MAY DO....and WHY.
God also MAY NOT DO....when People repent and they CHANGE.

Seems simple enough to me. Thanks.

 

[Rich R]

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Word of God proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

I see what you're saying, but why do you think "before Abraham" automatically means "eternity past?" Seems like that's reading into the verse something that's not there. Why not stick with what's written and go from there?

 

[Keiw]

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

The Masoretic Texts of post seventh century to pre fourteenth century A.D. contain YHWH mixed with "Adonai" except the Masoretes exchanged an E for the A that starts the word Adonai then they took every other vowel starting with the first A resulting in the insertion of "eoa" into God’s Holy Name. See that "eoa" is every other letter in the word Jehovah.

The Masoretes devised the system with the intent to warn people of various languages not to use God's Holy Name of יהוה in vain.

Essentially, the Masoretes intentionally created a code separated by an order of magnitude from God's Holy Name of יהוה.

Some English translators took the Masoretic man-made devised code into English as Jehovah.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

Your bible is corrupt, and you are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

By claiming to be a follower of God to others, then doing things against his will in front of others is taking Gods name in vain.
Jesus teaches he has a God like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Paul teaches the Father is Jesus' God-2Cor 1:3-1Cor 15:24-28--Coll 1:3--Peter as well- 1Peter 1:3--many other spots.
In the OT--The LORD( YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus) proves Jesus is not YHWH.

 

[DavidB]

I see what you're saying, but why do you think "before Abraham" automatically means "eternity past?" Seems like that's reading into the verse something that's not there. Why not stick with what's written and go from there?

That is similar to claiming that “us” in “let us make man” somehow means 3 and that the three are coequal and coeternal. Quite a stretch.

 

[Kermos]

By claiming to be a follower of God to others, then doing things against his will in front of others is taking Gods name in vain.
Jesus teaches he has a God like we do-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Paul teaches the Father is Jesus' God-2Cor 1:3-1Cor 15:24-28--Coll 1:3--Peter as well- 1Peter 1:3--many other spots.
In the OT--The LORD( YHWH) said to my Lord( Jesus) proves Jesus is not YHWH.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew as shown in this link to post 1686 in this thread containing a detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name - THE VERY POST TO WHICH YOU REPLIED WITHOUT ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF THE WORD JEHOVAH BEING AN ARTIFICIAL WORD THAT IS MEANT NOT TO BE THE HOLY NAME OF YHWH!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5) is the Word of God.

"I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.There is no God except me" is the New World Translation.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

According to your measure, Keiw, your NWT bible is corrupt.

You do plenty of things against YHWH, such as when YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

Paul can refer to Jesus as truly God and truly Man, and the following shows why he can.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

You are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Keiw]

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew as shown in this link to post 1686 in this thread containing a detailed explanation of the development of the word Jehovah of which the developers intentionally separated the word Jehovah from God's Holy Name - THE VERY POST TO WHICH YOU REPLIED WITHOUT ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF THE WORD JEHOVAH BEING AN ARTIFICIAL WORD THAT IS MEANT NOT TO BE THE HOLY NAME OF YHWH!

"I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5) is the Word of God.

"I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.There is no God except me" is the New World Translation.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

According to your measure, Keiw, your NWT bible is corrupt.

You do plenty of things against YHWH, such as when YOUR HEART LIED when you convey that Jesus is never called "the God" in the New Testament with your words of "Jesus is never called HoTheos in the NT" as shown in post #510 in this thread, in effect, you call the Apostle Peter a liar since he wrote "the God" referring to Jesus in 2 Peter 1:1 - you deny Apostolic teaching!

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior of us, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

Paul can refer to Jesus as truly God and truly Man, and the following shows why he can.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

You are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

You say its artificial. I say God has always made his name known and always will.

 

[Kermos]

I see what you're saying, but why do you think "before Abraham" automatically means "eternity past?" Seems like that's reading into the verse something that's not there. Why not stick with what's written and go from there?

When the Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14) says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), then the Truth (John 14:6) says that Lord Jesus existed in eternity past for the Christ provides no exception for "before Abraham".

You convey that Jesus is only a man (or a lesser god than YHWH God).

You convey that Jesus is the first man born because of Colossians 1:15 and/or Revelation 3:14.

Paul wrote "The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven" (1 Corinthians 15:47).

• Adam is labeled "the first man" by the Apostle Paul.
• By the very definition of Paul's writing in 1 Corinthians 15:47, it is impossible for Jesus, referred to as "the second man" by Paul, to be the firstborn of every single human being whether the person is saved or unsaved.
• Paul's writing establishes limits on the "first born of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) and "Beginning of the creation of God" (Revelation 3:14) - both of which are referring to Jesus in relation to the brothers of Jesus.
• Substantively, Paul declares that Adam was the first man created.

Neither Colossians 1:15 nor Revelation 3:14 state that Jesus was created.

In fact, no scripture states that Jesus was created.

The Word of God declares Jesus is God (John 8:58).

Rich R, when you convey "before Abraham" is not eternity past, then you put an exception into the Word of God - along the lines of "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was except for the time before I was created, I AM".

"Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

You say its artificial. I say God has always made his name known and always will.

Here is why the word "Jehovah" is an artificial word that by your own measure corrupt the New World Translation - and not only is the word "Jehovah" an artificial word, but the developers of the root of the word "Jehovah" intentionally separated it from God's Holy Name of YHWH.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

The Masoretic Texts of post seventh century to pre fourteenth century A.D. contain YHWH mixed with "Adonai" except the Masoretes exchanged an E for the A that starts the word Adonai then they took every other vowel starting with the first A resulting in the insertion of "eoa" into God’s Holy Name. See that "eoa" is every other letter in the word Jehovah.

The Masoretes devised the system with the intent to warn people of various languages not to use God's Holy Name of יהוה in vain.

Essentially, the Masoretes intentionally created a code separated by an order of magnitude from God's Holy Name of יהוה.

Some English translators took the Masoretic man-made devised code into English as Jehovah.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

Your bible is corrupt, and you are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Keiw]

Here is why the word "Jehovah" is an artificial word that by your own measure corrupt the New World Translation - and not only is the word "Jehovah" an artificial word, but the developers of the root of the word "Jehovah" intentionally separated it from God's Holy Name of YHWH.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

The Masoretic Texts of post seventh century to pre fourteenth century A.D. contain YHWH mixed with "Adonai" except the Masoretes exchanged an E for the A that starts the word Adonai then they took every other vowel starting with the first A resulting in the insertion of "eoa" into God’s Holy Name. See that "eoa" is every other letter in the word Jehovah.

The Masoretes devised the system with the intent to warn people of various languages not to use God's Holy Name of יהוה in vain.

Essentially, the Masoretes intentionally created a code separated by an order of magnitude from God's Holy Name of יהוה.

Some English translators took the Masoretic man-made devised code into English as Jehovah.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

Your bible is corrupt, and you are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

I say it is Gods holy name. And God will show the whole earth it is his name.

 

[Jack]

Thank you Jesus for being my God and Savior!

John 1 The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Kermos]

I say it is Gods holy name. And God will show the whole earth it is his name.

Then your saying is another LIE because the word "Jehovah" is a man-made word intentionally developed to be separate from God's Holy Name of YHWH.

Jehovah is not an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

YHWH is an English translation for God's Holy Name of יהוה in Hebrew.

The Masoretic Texts of post seventh century to pre fourteenth century A.D. contain YHWH mixed with "Adonai" except the Masoretes exchanged an E for the A that starts the word Adonai then they took every other vowel starting with the first A resulting in the insertion of "eoa" into God’s Holy Name. See that "eoa" is every other letter in the word Jehovah.

The Masoretes devised the system with the intent to warn people of various languages not to use God's Holy Name of יהוה in vain.

The Masoretes method to avoid enunciating God's Holy Name of יהוה results in the man-made word "Jehovah".

You might even have seen how some people write G-d instead of God.

Essentially, the Masoretes intentionally created a code separated by an order of magnitude from God's Holy Name of יהוה.

Some English translators took the Masoretic man-made devised code into English as Jehovah.

Your New World Translation contains Jehovah after Jehovah after Jehovah, and not a single occurrence of Jehovah in the NWT is God's Holy Name!

Your bible is corrupt, and you are a deceiver who rejects the Truth (John 14:6) that Jesus is everlasting God for the Word of God says that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

Thank you Jesus for being my God and Savior!

John 1 The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Your first paragraph of a whole lot like "my Lord and my God" (John 20:28) where are the Apostle Thomas testifies that Jesus is YHWH God!