A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT ESCHATOLOGY

[rwb]

It couldn’t have been 2000 years later.

I agree the definition cannot mean some 2000 years later. But where do you find Scripture to support your opinion that 'shortly' or 'quickly' can be defined as around 40 years?

Here in the KJV of Scripture are the twelve places we find something defined as coming 'shortly'. Which of these verses support the opinion that what shall be 'shortly' shall come in around 40 years?

Ac 25:4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.
Ro 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
Php 2:24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.
1Ti 3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
2Ti 4:9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
Heb 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
2Pe 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
3Jo 14 But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Re 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Every usage of 'shortly' anticipates the things spoken would not be delayed, but expected with expedience. Scripture does not support your opinion that 'shortly' means some 30 to 40 years later anymore than it supports the opinion that 'shortly' means about 2000 years later. I don't believe you rightly understand what Scripture means when Christ says, "things which must shortly come to pass."

What about quickly? According to Strong's Greek Dictionary 'quickly' is the word Christ used to show His coming again will be without delay, once all has been made ready for His Second coming. IOW 'quickly' does not necessarily speak of immediacy of time as 'shortly' does, but rather unexpectedly, suddenly, when only those looking for Him to return will be able to discern His coming again in glory.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5035. ταχύ tachy (tachý)
Search for G5035 in KJVSL; in KJV.

ταχύ tachý, takh-oo'

neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

adverb

Since it is not 70 AD, nor is it 2000 plus years later, what does 'shortly' and 'quickly' point to coming immediately or within the first century of the Messianic Gospel age?

 

[MatthewG]

Not faith in a lie, faith in the truth. Nothing you say adds up. When Scriptures are presented that expose your heresy you duck around them as if they do not exist.

I have responded to your error with a new thread. This needs to be examined in more detail than your evasive responses. Thanks for inspiring to to study deeper. Here is my new thread that challenges your speculations: The folly of Preterism

It’s up to you how you decide to interpret the text. Considering the audience and the writings to specific people in that day and age which they had lived in, were the ones whom are promised to see his return. Never does the text promise that I will see the return. That is why I believe people will have an experience similar to them, and be able to see Jesus then, perhaps he brings judgment and the reward that God gives in a new spiritual body to live in the kingdom of heaven, while those who are unbelievers are given a condemned spiritually body but are placed on the outside of the kingdom.

These are things believe by faith. It doesn’t matter if another person believes they are true or not. Like your opposition to the position of me signing the return to them only then; but it never says to be done again.

People have made that up as a traditional teachings and I’m not mad if they teach this or I’m not mad that anyone assumes from the text he is coming back today.

However I personally do not believe that is the case and there is no real argument to be had. If people wanna have faith that Jesus is coming back, great. I’m not gonna punch you in the mouth for it.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree the definition cannot mean some 2000 years later. But where do you find Scripture to support your opinion that 'shortly' or 'quickly' can be defined as around 40 years?

Here in the KJV of Scripture are the twelve places we find something defined as coming 'shortly'. Which of these verses support the opinion that what shall be 'shortly' shall come in around 40 years?

Ac 25:4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.
Ro 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
Php 2:24 But I trust in the Lord that I also myself shall come shortly.
1Ti 3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
2Ti 4:9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
Heb 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
2Pe 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
3Jo 14 But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Re 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Every usage of 'shortly' anticipates the things spoken would not be delayed, but expected with expedience. Scripture does not support your opinion that 'shortly' means some 30 to 40 years later anymore than it supports the opinion that 'shortly' means about 2000 years later. I don't believe you rightly understand what Scripture means when Christ says, "things which must shortly come to pass."

Was progressive, there are warnings before the final warning.

What about quickly? According to Strong's Greek Dictionary 'quickly' is the word Christ used to show His coming again will be without delay, once all has been made ready for His Second coming. IOW 'quickly' does not necessarily speak of immediacy of time as 'shortly' does, but rather unexpectedly, suddenly, when only those looking for Him to return will be able to discern His coming again in glory.

That is good. A promise of returning, during the last days that was upon the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Those who were seeking and looking during this dreadful time of slaughter, saw the Lord and were taken, and saved from the wrath of God while the unbelievers suffered their fate of death.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5035. ταχύ tachy (tachý)
Search for G5035 in KJVSL; in KJV.

ταχύ tachý, takh-oo'

neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

adverb

If it doesn’t mean exactly quickly or exactly shortly - but as a surprise then all the events that pulled up to this event would be shocking, especially with destruction occurring in Jerusalem and even the signs of what was poured out upon the land and they did not repent with sores they still cursed God as the Roman’s had came in and destroyed everything around them.

Assuredly the warning signs are taken seriously throughout the testimony witness for Jesus, and the final warning was from John.

 

[MatthewG]

About GENERATIONS in the Bible - WebBible Encyclopedia - ChristianAnswers.Net

description and definition • What does the Bible say about…?

christiananswers.net

 

[rwb]

Was progressive, there are warnings before the final warning.

That is good. A promise of returning, during the last days that was upon the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Those who were seeking and looking during this dreadful time of slaughter, saw the Lord and were taken, and saved from the wrath of God while the unbelievers suffered their fate of death.


If it doesn’t mean exactly quickly or exactly shortly - but as a surprise then all the events that pulled up to this event would be shocking, especially with destruction occurring in Jerusalem and even the signs of what was poured out upon the land and they did not repent with sores they still cursed God as the Roman’s had came in and destroyed everything around them.

Assuredly the warning signs are taken seriously throughout the testimony witness for Jesus, and the final warning was from John.

By the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, John writes he must reveal unto Christ's servants things which must shortly (without any delay) come to pass. Then John gives blessing to he that reads and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written. Why? Because the time is at hand. He speaks of a set or proper time as being the occasion for that which is now ready (at hand) to unfold on earth. Since John was not writing of what would come to pass in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and he was not writing of the second coming of Christ that would not come to pass until the spiritual Kingdom of God is completed in the last days as the Gospel is preached unto all the nations of the world, what time was John writing was "at hand"? When we understand the time that was at hand was the Gospel of Christ through the church on earth being preached unto all the nations of the world, then the end would come, then we understand why Christ instructed His disciples to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel unto every creature."

Revelation 1:1-2 (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:3 (KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Mark 16:14-16 (KJV) Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[MatthewG]

By the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, John writes he must reveal unto Christ's servants things which must shortly (without any delay) come to pass. Then John gives blessing to he that reads and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written. Why? Because the time is at hand. He speaks of a set or proper time as being the occasion for that which is now ready (at hand) to unfold on earth. Since John was not writing of what would come to pass in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and he was not writing of the second coming of Christ that would not come to pass until the spiritual Kingdom of God is completed in the last days as the Gospel is preached unto all the nations of the world, what time was John writing was "at hand"? When we understand the time that was at hand was the Gospel of Christ through the church on earth being preached unto all the nations of the world, then the end would come, then we understand why Christ instructed His disciples to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel unto every creature."

Revelation 1:1-2 (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Revelation 1:3 (KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Mark 16:14-16 (KJV) Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Paul said that the gospel message of Christ was preached unto the whole world. They did their job in the world and age they lived in. The wrath would fall on Jerusalem, and those who believes would be saved from that wrath. It was an event that would never happen again upon the earth.

So I don’t know, what is you seek to try to change my mind about.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s about 7 times in John’s Revelation letter , coming quickly, and shortly are used in the revelation that was written to literal breathing, people on land who had some issues and things that Jesus warned about; and also the destruction and the wrath and the plagues poured out the nation.

Yes people did suffer and lose their lives for having disobeyed God when he had finally put the covenant fully to rest at the end of the age destroying the material land of Israel by the use of the Romans.

Now today God is in control and it is Jesus who is king but all us wrestle around with the spiritual darkness of the world; which influences our flesh to do evil compared to God who desire for us to be of the light, with the light in us, as Christian. It’s just our decision to give our time and relationship to God to help us, by the spirit to be in control in abiding in Christ to produce fruits of love.

 

[rwb]

Paul said that the gospel message of Christ was preached unto the whole world. They did their job in the world and age they lived in. The wrath would fall on Jerusalem, and those who believes would be saved from that wrath. It was an event that would never happen again upon the earth.

So I don’t know, what is you seek to try to change my mind about.

Did Paul also say the Gospel that was preached in all the world was a witness unto all nations? It shall be preached unto all nations, that is, to the Gentile world; not only among the Jews, but among the nations of the Gentiles. "All nations" means even those Gentile nations of the world that were yet to be born in the first century AD.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

When the Gospel of the kingdom has been preached in all the world for a witness unto ALL nations, then shall the end come. That did not happen in 70 AD, because the world did not end then.

As he was coming into Damascus, the Savior appeared to Saul asking why he was persecuting Him. Saul became converted. Eventually he became the Apostles to the Gentiles. The rest of Acts is about Paul’s missions in which he with many others took the Gospel to Asia and Europe. Eventually, he and all the Twelve Apostles (except for John) were martyred for their testimony, as the Savior had forewarned (see Matt 24:9; JS Matt 1:7).

The first century after the time of Christ was only the beginning of what the Savior called “the times of the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24). But “the times of the Gentiles” will not be complete until the fullness of the Gentiles ordained to come into the same Covenant body as the Jews of faith in “the latter days” shall come in the dispensation of the fulness of times, or the whole Messianic Gospel age. How shall they call on whom they have not heard? Paul tells us. Though the Gospel had been proclaimed throughout Israel, and Asia and Europe in the days of Paul, it had not yet been preached in all the Gentile world for a witness unto all nations. Though Jews throughout the earth and the ends of the world heard and knew the Gospel of salvation, not all the Gentile nations had heard.

 

[rwb]

It’s about 7 times in John’s Revelation letter , coming quickly, and shortly are used in the revelation that was written to literal breathing, people on land who had some issues and things that Jesus warned about; and also the destruction and the wrath and the plagues poured out the nation.

Yes people did suffer and lose their lives for having disobeyed God when he had finally put the covenant fully to rest at the end of the age destroying the material land of Israel by the use of the Romans.

Now today God is in control and it is Jesus who is king but all us wrestle around with the spiritual darkness of the world; which influences our flesh to do evil compared to God who desire for us to be of the light, with the light in us, as Christian. It’s just our decision to give our time and relationship to God to help us, by the spirit to be in control in abiding in Christ to produce fruits of love.

Yes, but what did John say was coming quickly and shortly? He is not speaking of things that would not happen for 30-40 years. The definition of quickly and shortly does not support your unbiblical opinion that John was speaking of the coming of Christ to Israel in 70 AD.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, but what did John say was coming quickly and shortly? He is not speaking of things that would not happen for 30-40 years. The definition of quickly and shortly does not support your unbiblical opinion that John was speaking of the coming of Christ to Israel in 70 AD.

Jesus spoke about it.

“Then Jesus spake to the multitudes, and to his disciples, saying, ‘On the seat of Moses sat down the scribes and the Pharisees; all, then, as much as they may say to you to observe, observe and do, but according to their works do not, for they say, and do not; for they bind together burdens heavy and grievous to be borne, and lay upon the shoulders of men, but with their finger they will not move them. ‘And all their works they do to be seen by men, and they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the fringes of their garments, they love also the chief couches in the supper, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the salutations in the market-places, and to be called by men, Rabbi, Rabbi. ‘And ye — ye may not be called Rabbi, for one is your director — the Christ, and all ye are brethren; and ye may not call [any] your father on the earth, for one is your Father, who is in the heavens, nor may ye be called directors, for one is your director — the Christ. And the greater of you shall be your ministrant, and whoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled, and whoever shall humble himself shall be exalted. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut up the reign of the heavens before men, for ye do not go in, nor those going in do ye suffer to enter. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye eat up the houses of the widows, and for a pretence make long prayers, because of this ye shall receive more abundant judgment. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves. ‘Woe to you, blind guides, who are saying, Whoever may swear by the sanctuary, it is nothing, but whoever may swear by the gold of the sanctuary — is debtor! Fools and blind! for which [is] greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold? ‘And, whoever may swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever may swear by the gift that is upon it — is debtor! Fools and blind! for which [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that is sanctifying the gift? ‘He therefore who did swear by the altar, doth swear by it, and by all things on it; and he who did swear by the sanctuary, doth swear by it, and by Him who is dwelling in it; and he who did swear by the heaven, doth swear by the throne of God, and by Him who is sitting upon it. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law — the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect. ‘Blind guides! who are straining out the gnat, and the camel are swallowing. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye make clean the outside of the cup and the plate, and within they are full of rapine and incontinence. ‘Blind Pharisee! cleanse first the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside of them also may become clean. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye are like to whitewashed sepulchres, which outwardly indeed do appear beautiful, and within are full of bones of dead men, and of all uncleanness; so also ye outwardly indeed do appear to men righteous, and within ye are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. So that ye testify to yourselves, that ye are sons of them who did murder the prophets; and ye — ye fill up the measure of your fathers. ‘Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna? ‘Because of this, lo, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, and of them ye will kill and crucify, and of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and will pursue from city to city; that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. ‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will. Lo, left desolate to you is your house; for I say to you, ye may not see me henceforth, till ye may say, Blessed [is] he who is coming in the name of the Lord.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭1‬-‭39‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 23:1-39 Then Jesus spake to the multitudes, and to his disciples, saying, ‘On the seat of Moses sat down the scribes and the Pharisees; all, then, as much as they may say to you to observe, observe and do, bu | Young's Literal Translation 189

Then Jesus spake to the multitudes, and to his disciples, saying, ‘On the seat of Moses sat down the scribes and the Pharisees; all, then, as much as they may say to you to observe, observe and do, bu

bible.com

There is so much also to read not just from this account it is Jesus who is making the prophecy of the destruction and also many things that would be significant to understanding his return by reading the scripture, the thing is that many today do not read as much as they probably need to, that included me also. I did put all off Matthew 24 but it said to me characters I would quote all of the promises of what Jesus promised to come about and nothing should come about until that generation had passed.

 

[rwb]

Jesus spoke about it.



There is so much also to read not just from this account it is Jesus who is making the prophecy of the destruction and also many things that would be significant to understanding his return by reading the scripture, the thing is that many today do not read as much as they probably need to, that included me also. I did put all off Matthew 24 but it said to me characters I would quote all of the promises of what Jesus promised to come about and nothing should come about until that generation had passed.

The generation prophesied to pass is the generation of evil, those who are of their father the devil whether Jew or Gentile. As long as evil continues to exist in the world is proof that Christ has not yet come, nor will He come again until the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7).

 

[MatthewG]

The generation prophesied to pass is the generation of evil, those who are of their father the devil whether Jew or Gentile. As long as evil continues to exist in the world is proof that Christ has not yet come, nor will He come again until the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7).

Evil existing doesn’t symbolize that Jesus did not come. Evil exist within the heart of man. The heart of mankind needs a change, by light shining in on the darkness that changes a heart from darkness to light.

Jesus coming was a sign that signified that the old administration was done away with, and the new administration is now established. Jesus coming was also a sign that his blood was accepted, as righteous, and fulfilled the law of Moses. The perverse and evil generation was the one who rejected the messiah - the Jewish people whom Jesus had come to; and he passed by some gentile territories that did not want him. The Jews having come first had been part of the land (earth) and there was 144,000 of the tribes said to be the virgins and those who would be sealed and taken away, is how I see it.

Jesus also promised his disciples

“And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, and Jesus said to them, ‘Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.’ And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, ‘Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?’ And Jesus answering said to them, ‘Take heed that no one may lead you astray, for many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall lead many astray, and ye shall begin to hear of wars, and reports of wars; see, be not troubled, for it behoveth all [these] to come to pass, but the end is not yet. ‘For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places; and all these [are] the beginning of sorrows; then they shall deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you, and ye shall be hated by all the nations because of my name; and then shall many be stumbled, and they shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another. ‘And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray; and because of the abounding of the lawlessness, the love of the many shall become cold; but he who did endure to the end, he shall be saved; and this good news of the reign shall be proclaimed in all the world, for a testimony to all the nations; and then shall the end arrive. ‘Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe) then those in Judea — let them flee to the mounts; he on the house-top — let him not come down to take up any thing out of his house; and he in the field — let him not turn back to take his garments. ‘And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days; and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath; for there shall be then great tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world till now, no, nor may be. And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened. ‘Then if any one may say to you, Lo, here [is] the Christ! or here! ye may not believe; for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen. ‘If therefore they may say to you, Lo, in the wilderness he is, ye may not go forth; lo, in the inner chambers, ye may not believe; for as the lightning doth come forth from the east, and doth appear unto the west, so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man; for wherever the carcase may be, there shall the eagles be gathered together. ‘And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory; and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof. ‘And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer [is] nigh, so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh — at the doors. Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass. The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. ‘And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known — not even the messengers of the heavens — except my Father only; and as the days of Noah — so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man; for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark, and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man. Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left; two women shall be grinding in the mill, one is received, and one is left. ‘Watch ye therefore, because ye have not known in what hour your Lord doth come; and this know, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief doth come, he had watched, and not suffered his house to be broken through; because of this also ye, become ye ready, because in what hour ye do not think, the Son of Man doth come. ‘Who, then, is the servant, faithful and wise, whom his Lord did set over his household, to give them the nourishment in season? Happy that servant, whom his Lord, having come, shall find doing so; verily I say to you, that over all his substance he will set him. ‘And, if that evil servant may say in his heart, My Lord doth delay to come, and may begin to beat the fellow-servants, and to eat and to drink with the drunken, the Lord of that servant will arrive in a day when he doth not expect, and in an hour of which he doth not know, and will cut him off, and his portion with the hypocrites will appoint; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭1‬-‭24‬, ‭26‬-‭51‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 24:1-51 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, and Jesus said to them, ‘Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There | Young's Literal Translation 189

And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, and Jesus said to them, ‘Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There

bible.com

Verse 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

 

[rwb]

Evil existing doesn’t symbolize that Jesus did not come. Evil exist within the heart of man. The heart of mankind needs a change, by light shining in on the darkness that changes a heart from darkness to light.

You do err, not knowing the Scripture. The FACT that evil continues to exist is unequivocally proof that Christ has not come again in 70 AD. For Scripture proves that when Christ returns, He shall make all things new again, and there will be no more sin, and no more suffering and death. There will be no more darkness to be found within the hearts of man, for then man will be changed to immortal and incorruptible.

Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[MatthewG]

You do err, not knowing the Scripture. The FACT that evil continues to exist is unequivocally proof that Christ has not come again in 70 AD. For Scripture proves that when Christ returns, He shall make all things new again, and there will be no more sin, and no more suffering and death. There will be no more darkness to be found within the hearts of man, for then man will be changed to immortal and incorruptible.

Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

That’s when you die man.

When all things become new. Jesus had to die. We are gonna have to die one day.

I have told and said this time and time again, I believe revelation 21-22 are pictures of the afterlife what you do with that information is up to you. Evil will not stop existing in this world, and it seems people who are evil are outside of the city gates. Living their own lives, it seems like anyway, those of non faith.

“And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. ‘I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star! And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely. ‘For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll, and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;’ he saith — who is testifying these things — ‘Yes, I come quickly!’ Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭8‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 22:8-21 And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — n | Young's Literal Translation

And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — n

bible.com

Idk what to make of it all from John’s words himself, as they are not my own words.

 

[rwb]

That’s when you die man.

When all things become new. Jesus had to die. We are gonna have to die one day.

I have told and said this time and time again, I believe revelation 21-22 are pictures of the afterlife what you do with that information is up to you. Evil will not stop existing in this world, and it seems people who are evil are outside of the city gates.

Idk what to make of it all from John’s words himself, as they are not my own words.

Once again, you do err not knowing the Scripture! I don't really care what you believe! What matters when discerning Scripture, is what you can biblically prove! Try reading the verses I just gave you. They clearly say that all things are made new again after this first heaven and earth have passed away! So as long as this earth continues to exist, so too will evil and death.

 

[MatthewG]

Once again, you do err not knowing the Scripture! I don't really care what you believe! What matters when discerning Scripture, is what you can biblically prove! Try reading the verses I just gave you. They clearly say that all things are made new again after this first heaven and earth have passed away! So as long as this earth continues to exist, so too will evil and death.

That is fine no one said you have to believe me, or that you’re not right with God because you do not consider the information given. It’s up to you for you to decide for yourself between you and God what you believe. It’s the Lord who makes people right with God because of faith which God finds pleasing and he rewards those who diligently seek him out.

 

[MatthewG]

But things will become new in death.

Though people may believe they are gonna be placed on a new earth, I tend to believe this is wrong.

I believe people will experience life here on earth in a new way by the spirit and are longing to go on to the heavenly destination to be with God.

That is what my faith is relying on, and having hope for, but that is personal, subjective and between myself and God.

 

[rwb]

That is fine no one said you have to believe me, or that you’re not right with God because you do not consider the information given. It’s up to you for you to decide for yourself between you and God what you believe. It’s the Lord who makes people right with God because of faith which God finds pleasing and he rewards those who diligently seek him out.

The reason I respond to your posts MatthewG is because I pray that Christians reading these forums will not be deceived by the unbiblical doctrines you continue to cling to even though you have been shown to err in understanding. There is a fine line to being deceived and becoming a deceiver!

 

[MatthewG]

Christian’s are suppose to even become Baptist in the death of Christ and to raise to newness of life.

Jesus died on the cross, all people are gonna have to die.

Dying sounds awful but what is your hope abounding in now in one’s life?

Praising of God and his Son, prayers and supplications, seeking God in faith, looking towards the heavenly? Building up your faith and the spiritual body while here to carry on with you in the eternity?

But there is a new place where there is no more death! It is going to be in the heavenly realm, no more crying, no more mourning, no more pain, and that is a great thing to know. Even there is an outside part of the kingdom that hosts resurrected people who were not of faith, and an inside for those who go into the kingdom by faith believing in the Father and the Son in which brings redemption.

 

[MatthewG]

The reason I respond to your posts MatthewG is because I pray that Christians reading these forums will not be deceived by the unbiblical doctrines you continue to cling to even though you have been shown to err in understanding. There is a fine line to being deceived and becoming a deceiver!

Go ahead and post away. People would considered me deceived by the devil for believing that Jesus did not lie about coming to get the community of people he warned to become saved from the wrath of God: and the promises made by John of the afterlife pictures that can be seen in revelation 21-22.