A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT ESCHATOLOGY

[MatthewG]

You can belive as you wish

You have been clearly shown there will be a future human man that will fulfill the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast)

You have been clearly shown that the Revelation was written in 96AD, long after the 66-70AD destruction of Jerusalem

Preterism is a false teaching, 66-70AD Jerusalem played absolutely no part in fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

Cool it sure is debatable.

 

[Timtofly]

There is a lot of evidence though for it to become to fruition within a generation according to Jesus.

To simply just throw all that away is nonsensical in my opinion.

There is a lot of evidence it could happen at any time. No one is tossing out Scripture to prove their point.


To declare something happened in the past that does not even match prophecy is helpful, how?

 

[MatthewG]

the point is did Jesus lie to his apostles and did they lie to others. How can you trust a person who lied especially Jesus and the apostles. up to you to decide

 

[Timtofly]

the point is did Jesus lie to his apostles and did they lie to others. How can you trust a person who lied especially Jesus and the apostles. up to you to decide

Are you lying about Jesus?

 

[MatthewG]

God only knows.

 

[Truth7t7]

Who gave you the authority to deem a view false though, Truth7t7 would be my question friend. Shouldn't others be encouraged to take a look at the most prominent views have to offer? There are 4 main views when it comes to Revelation anyway, with a lot of subviews with-in those views.

"Scripture" deems partial & full preterism false

 

[Adventageous]

Who gave you the authority to deem a view false though, Truth7t7 would be my question friend. Shouldn't others be encouraged to take a look at the most prominent views have to offer? There are 4 main views when it comes to Revelation anyway, with a lot of subviews with-in those views.

Modern Preterism is a Jesuit (counter Reformation) construct (this is not to say that there is not 'preterist' ideas in the past before them, but I am speaking of the modern general construct):

See Study 12 - 13 Bible Studies (PDF), Prophecy, History, Theology, Legacy by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[A.] Preterism - Spanish Jesuit Luis De Alcazar (1554-1613), who also wrote a commentary called Investigation of the Hidden Sense of the Apocalypse, which ran to some 900 pages. In it he proposed that it all of Revelation applied to the era of pagan Rome and the first six centuries of Christianity. According to Alcazar (or Alcasar)

[1.] Revelation chapters 1-11 describes the rejection of the Jews and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.​

​

[2.] Revelation chapters 12 - 19 were the overthrow of Roman paganism (the great harlot) and the conversion of the empire to the church.​

​

[3.] Revelation 20 describe the final persecutions by Antichrist, who is identified as Caesar Nero (54-68 A.D.), and judgment.​

​

[4]. Revelation 21 -22 describe the triumph of the New Jerusalem, the Roman Catholic Church. Alcazar found no application of prophecy to the middle ages or to the papacy.​

It differed in complete opposition to the Jesuit Francisco Ribera’s and Robert Bellarmine’s Futurism theology.

QUESTION: DOESN’T [CAESAR] NERO’S NAME IN LATIN COME TO 666 ALSO, AND SO WHY IS HE NOT THE ANTICHRIST IN THE PRETERIST INTERPRETATION?

Latin: “Nero[n] Caesar” [full name: “NERO CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS”], being transliterated into Syriac/Aramaic, “NRWN QSR”, would then be:

HEBREW LETTER​	ANGLICIZED LETTER FORM​	PSALM REFERENCE​	VALUE (TOTAL)​
נ​	Nun​	[Psalms 119:105-112]​	= 50
ר​	Resh​	[Psalms 119:153-160]​	= 200
ו​	Vau​	[Psalms 119:41-48]​	= 6
ן) נ)​	Nun (as final)​	[Psalms 119:105-112]​	= 50 (as final, 700)
ק​	Koph​	[Psalms 119:145-152]​	= 100
ס​	Samech​	[Psalms 119:113-20]​	= 60
ר​	Resh​	[Psalms 119:153-160]​	= 200 = 666 (but with final = 1,316)

Without the additional “ן) נ) Nun”, as either 'final', or not, making no difference, the total would not come to '666', but as 'final' would total '1316', and as not 'final' would total '616' [an error, found in a very few ancient manuscripts that had been corrupted, see Irenæus [A.D. 120-202] "... I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one (ie. 616). [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] ..." - Against Heresies: Book V, Chapter XXX - CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus) ]. Let's see some other difficulties:

[1] The additional “ן) נ) Nun”, as either 'final' (700), or not (50).

[2] The transliteration from Latin to Syriac/Aramaic [Hebrew], and using a Hebrew Gematria, rather than a Latin one on the original Latin name, which would only total to '100'. Revelation was written in koine Greek [by John the Apostle on the Isle of Patmos], speaking about the Roman [Latin] element [Iron, Daniel 2 & 7 KJB, etc.] of Revelation 13:1-8 KJB. Why is not a Greek, or even a Latin, Gematria used, instead of an Syriac/Aramaic [Hebrew]? The full name, NERO CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS = 1,882

Even the full name, with or without an extra “N”, would be not equal '666', but rather '1882':

N - = 0
E - = 0
R - = 0
O - = 0
[N] - = 0
= 0

C Centum = 100
L Quinquaginta = 50
A - = 0
V Quinque = 5
D Quingenti = 500
I Unus = 1
V Quinque = 5
S - = 0

= 661
= 661

C Centum = 100
A - = 0
E - = 0
S - = 0
A - = 0
R - = 0

= 100
= 761

A - = 0
V Quinque = 5
G - = 0
V Quinque = 5
S - = 0
T - = 0
V Quinque = 5
S - = 0

= 15
= 776

G - = 0
E - = 0
R - = 0
M Mille = 1000
A - = 0
N - = 0
I Unus = 1
C Centum = 100
V Quinque = 5
S - = 0

= 1106
= 1882

[3] Nero was the 5th “Augustus” [beginning with Gaius Octavius],

[4] Nero was the the 6th “Caesar” [beginning with Julius], and cannot therefore be the 11th [8th] horn of Daniel 7 KJB in any way.

[5] Nero, especially, cannot be both, of the “ten” [horns] of Daniel 7 KJB (which some wrongfully attribute to the first Ten Caesars of Pagan Rome - List of Roman emperors - Wikipedia - List of Roman emperors - Wikipedia ) all existing at the same time, and the “another little” [horn] at the same time, which came up both after the “ten” existed, and amongst them.

[6] Nero in no way uprooted “three” [Daniel 7:8,20,24 KJB] of the previous “ten” [Horns] (if as, wrongly, supposed are to be the list of the first Ten Caesars) when he became Emperor.

[7] Etc., as there is numerous more reasons which substantiate that Nero in not the “little horn” of Daniel 7 KJB, is not the “antichrist” of John's Epistles, nor the “beast” of Revelation 12, 13 or 17; not the least of which the prophetic time element of the “forty and two months” [42], being “one thousand, two hundred and threescore days” [1,260], or “time, times, and the dividing of time” [3 1/2], given minimally 7 times in scripture [KJB], Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5; see also Luke 21:24 KJB, compared to Revelation 11:2 KJB, all being the exact same 1,260 years [AD 538 - AD 1798], as per Daniel, Revelation, Ezekiel 4:6; Numbers 14:34 KJB, and many other references.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Adventageous,

Thank you for sharing what you have here, everyone has to choose for themselves what they will believe.

I believe that Nero was the Anti-Christ, but if others do not - It is not for me to wack them on the head and make demands they believe me. Also believing that Jesus had returned to his bride to take them out of the wrath that would be-fall Jerusalem is subjective belief to hold in ones life. My acceptance is the total victory that Jesus Christ has had for paying for sin and taking care of it for all people in the world, that he has overcame and defeated death, and Satan and his demons, even Sheol/Hell/Hades, and that because of Jesus those who come to him, are given newness of life because of his death on the cross and resurrection.

The main goal of Christianity is to know the Son, and to know God who sent him and to believe on them which is the work of God - having love for God, and love for others despite if they believe the same, or do not.

Peace be unto you,
Matthew

 

[Adventageous]

I believe that Nero was the Anti-Christ

AntiChrist, is another name for "the son of perdition" (John. 17:12; 2 Thes. 2:3), and as such, must arise from within the Church, among the Eldership, as Judas was:

Act_1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.​

​

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.​

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.​

Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.​

Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.​

Psa 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.​

Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.​

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.​

Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.​

Psa 109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.​

Psa 109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.​

Psa 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.​

Psa 109:11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.​

Psa 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.​

Psa 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.​

Psa 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.​

Psa 109:15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.​

​

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [G646, "αποστασια", "apostasia"] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.​

The "temple of God" in the NT, is the Church body, as Paul teaches everywhere (1 Cor. 3:16,17, 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21; 2 Thes. 2:4, as does Peter, 1 Pet. 2:5; as does John, Rev. 11:1,2).

The Antichrist (English), antichristos (tr. koine Greek), the Vicarius Christi (Latin) must take the place of Prophet, Priest and King, as Jesus, the Christ, was all three.

ANOINTED (CHRIST)​	CHRIST JESUS (True anointed man)​	ANTI CHRIST (666; false anointed man)​
PROPHET​	(Deu. 18:15,18-19; Hos. 12:13; Mat. 13:57, 21:11,46; Mar. 6:4; Luk. 4:24, 7:16, 13:33, 24:19; Jhn. 4:19,44, 6:14, 7:40, 9:17; Act. 3:22,23, 7:37, &c)​	6 (man). "eyes like the eyes of a man" Dan. 7:8,20, "dark sentences" Dan. 8:23; Rev. 2:20; in point of fact, the word "Vatican", from the Latin, "vatic-anus", meaning "old prophesying woman", like a witch, or since it is a religio city-state means "prophecying city", or "city of prophecy", see. - https://web.archive.org/web/20080711210238/biblelight.net/Vatican.htm Others have linked "Vatican" to "vatis" and "khan", the divining serpent/dragon, and Rome's crest is the Red Dragon, see - https://web.archive.org/web/20080209140853/biblelight.net/dragon.htm​
PRIEST​	(type: Gen. 14:18; Heb. 7:1,11,15; type: Exo. 28:1; Heb. 9:7, 10:11,21, 23:11, etc.; Psa. 110:4; Zec. 6:13; Mal. 2:7; Heb. 2:17, 3:1, 4:14,15, 5:1,5,6,10, 6:20, 7:3,17,20,21,26, 8:1,3,4, 9:11,25; Rev. 1:10-20, &c)​	6 (man). (2 Cor. 11:13-15; 2 Thes. 2:4; 2 Tim. 3:5​
KING​	(Isa. 9:7, Dan. 2:44, 7:14,27; Mic. 5:2; Mat. 2:2, 21:5, 25:34,40, 27:11,29,37; Mar. 15:2,9,12,18,26,32; Luk. 14:31, 19:38, 23:2,3,38; Jhn. 1:49, 12:13,15, 18:37,39, 19:3,12,14,15,19,21; Act. 17:7; 1 Tim. 1:17, 6:15; Heb. 7:2; Rev. 17:14, 19:16, &c)​	6 (man). (Dan. 7:8,11,20,21,24,25,26, 8:11,12,23-26, 11:40-45; 2 Thes. 2:4; Rev. 13:1-10, ec. 17:1-18, &c)​

Roman Catholicism admits this definition in print, & every single ‘pope’, ‘cardinal’, ‘archbishop’, ‘bishop’, ‘priest’ are ‘Vicarius Christi’, which is Latin of koine Greek (Anti Christos):

“… In composition anti has different meanings: … Antichrist (Greek Antichristos). ... The word Antichrist occurs only in the Johannine Epistles; but there are so-called real parallelisms to these occurrences in the Apocalypse, in the Pauline Epistles, and less explicit ones in the Gospels and the Book of Daniel. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "A"; "Antichrist"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Antichrist​

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“...anti ... (in the place of…” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; "Sacrifice"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sacrifice​

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“Vicar (Latin vicarius, from vice, “instead of”) ...” [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, Vicar] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar​

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“Vicar of Christ (Latin Vicarius Christi). ... thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). ... and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ” [Online Catholic Encyclopedia, Vicar of Christ] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar of Christ​

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“But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, ...” [“The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII”, Encyclical Letter June 20, 1894; Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae - Papal Encyclicals] - Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae - Papal Encyclicals​

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“...It will be enough, however, to refer to the evidence contained in the epistles of St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, himself a disciple of the Apostles. In these epistles (about A.D. 107) he again and again asserts that the supremacy of the bishop is of Divine institution and belongs to the Apostolic constitution of the Church. He goes so far as to affirm that the bishop stands in the place of Christ Himself. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "C"; "Church"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Church​

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“...Supreme Pontiff, Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth...” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Church Documents; "Ad Sinarum Gentem (1954)"; Point 11.] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Ad Sinarum Gentem (1954)​

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“...We, indeed, to all men are the Vicar of Christ, the Son of God...” [Roman Catholic Online Library; Church Documents; "In Plurimis (1888)"; Point 2.] - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: In Plurimis (1888)​

 

[MatthewG]

Hi again @Adventageous,

You seem to know a lot and that is great.

Nero as the Antichrist

Nero, the Beast Study Archive – Preterist Archives

preteristarchives.org

Revelation 13:18 Study Archive – Preterist Archives

preteristarchives.org

Was Nero the Antichrist? | GotQuestions.org

Was Nero the antichrist? Why do some Christians believe that Nero was the antichrist?

www.gotquestions.org

There is all kinds of information out there no doubt.

Peace be with you.

 

[MatthewG]

May the Lord judge.

May the God of peace be with you.

 

[David in NJ]

A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT ESCHATOLOGY : From Revelation 20 Commentary - which can be sourced here - Publication | CollectionCommentary on Revelations on Revelation Volumes 1-22 | cult (sharing only four pages if I got past these two)

Full preterism is the view that the consummation of everything discussed in the Old and New Testaments is complete, having occurred in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem.

For a full preterist, the “last days” are the last days of the Mosaic Covenant, contained in the (brief ) period between Christ’s ascension and His (spiritual) Parousia (or return) and completed with reward and judgment upon Israel. During that time, the whole (Jewish and Roman) “world” was evangelized, the fullness of ethnic Israel came in, the antichrist (i.e., Nero) arose to power, and the Great Tribulation (which lead up to Titus’ invasion of the Great City Jerusalem) occurred. Then in 70 AD, the actual Parousia (or return of Christ as promised) took place, and the last judgment of all took place. This also initiated the resurrection of the dead.

Unlike most full preterists, I submit that this all took place actu- ally and physically, whereas most full preterists believe it all took place spiritually instead of physically. At this time, the Kingdom (in its spiritual fullness) appeared with the new heavens and the new earth arriving (spiritually) with the New Jerusalem (as
1

opposed to the OLD) being established in heaven rather than on earth.
Since then, according to full preterists, believers, at their death, are spiritually resurrected into the kingdom world to come; unbe- lievers, at their death, are resurrected into the lake of fire: spiritu- ally, rather than physically. I tend to believe that the lake of fire is a purgative and temporary passing-through of any or all souls seeking entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven above instead of a punitive destination. I suggest this because it is “in the presence of the Lamb and His angels” and because it was made for Satan and his angels – and not Man.

People wonder, “Well, what lies ahead for the physical remains of the saints like you and I and/or for our sin-cursed earth?” To me, what lies ahead is what has lied behind for 2000 years. God call- ing, true-seekers responding, and God adding to His Kingdom Sons and Daughters while the faithless will enter a heavenly realm that is outside the walls of the New Jerusalem, which appear to be some sort of realm of darkness.

The Kingdom then, from this view, is the direct reign of God through Christ, by the Spirit - in and through those who are His Sons and Daughters. This Kingdom is entered into through faith in Christ and is, in essence, the promise of the Eternal Covenant.

Critics of full preterism maintain that the last days are not the last days of the Mosaic Covenant, but rather these are the days in which the New Covenant has been manifested in the earth. These suggest that these last days all began at Christ’s incarnation and will conclude at His parousia, which awaits the world. Let’s talk for a minute about partial preterism...

Regarding chapters 1-19, partial preterists are in accord with full preterists: all are focused on the Jewish/Roman persecution of the Church, the rise of the beast (Nero), and the Destruction of

Full preterism would be false based on the description you have given.

 

[David in NJ]

You can belive as you wish

You have been clearly shown there will be a future human man that will fulfill the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast)

You have been clearly shown that the Revelation was written in 96AD, long after the 66-70AD destruction of Jerusalem

Preterism is a false teaching, 66-70AD Jerusalem played absolutely no part in fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

EXCELLENT

 

[MatthewG]

That is all people ever say @David in NJ


It's false.

Lol. okay now what? It's a considered view; just like someone may believe that Jesus is still coming back today.

I think that is false.

 

[MatthewG]

What its important is the relationship a person has with God, and to learn and know and understand that Christ lives in them, and he is the only life of the believer @David in NJ.



What people believe doesn't really effect my personal life. There are four views of Revelation that are out there, Historicist, Idealist, Perterist (past), and Futurist.


What one you subscribe to is totally up to you, I just do not think that Jesus would have lied about returning, nor the Apostles about encouraging those to watch, see, and be ready, for his return, at the end of the age of the Jewish - Heaven and earth as they understood it. With-in that generation which is obviously something that people try to jump around.

Thank you for commenting, and

May the God of peace be with you.

 

[David in NJ]

That is all people ever say @David in NJ


It's false.

Lol. okay now what? It's a considered view; just like someone may believe that Jesus is still coming back today.

I think that is false.

i am curious of how you surmise that the Lord Jesus Christ would not be Returning???

 

[MatthewG]

i am curious of how you surmise that the Lord Jesus Christ would not be Returning???

When you die. You'll experience something.

But it is intellectually undeniable to not consider the Gospel, and the Letters, to that generation Jesus spoke to and about the things that were going to fall upon the nation of Jerusalem for killing him.

I do believe he came back and got his bride sometimes around 70AD.

That is all on faith.

 

[David in NJ]

When you die. You'll experience something.

But it is intellectually undeniable to not consider the Gospel, and the Letters, to that generation Jesus spoke to and about the things that were going to fall upon the nation of Jerusalem for killing him.

I do believe he came back and got his bride sometimes around 70AD.

That is all on faith.

Dear Friend,
Please grant access to your summation of "he came back and got his bride sometimes around 70AD."

 

[MatthewG]

Dear Friend,
Please grant access to your summation of "he came back and got his bride sometimes around 70AD."

Cant do it.

I believe by Faith, they saw him as he said he would be coming back to get them during the great tribulation, or before, or after that fell upon the Christians. (The first bride of Christ, spotless, and blameless.)


Therefore - who can really judge me but God himself.

 

[MatthewG]

That is why it is important for people to know God, and have a relationship with the Father, and understand whom they become in Christ, and to live for God and Christ with the understanding that Christ Jesus lives in them.

Jesus Christ is the life of the believer he can work in and through us if we allow him.

What people believe about the end time is between themselves and God, friend, @David in NJ