David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't Jesus use OT principal?
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
A Galilean Wedding & the Second Coming ...
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"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
Thanks for the chapter correction.
The Bride (the glory of the Lord) is mentioned and her dwelling place, the New Jerusalem. In verse 27 clearly reiterates who she is, those who are written in the Book of Life. Their glory shines like a precious stone.
Btw, on 9/2012, you identified the oil as symbolic for the Holy Spirit in a post referencing Zech. 4. The same pure olive oil used for lamps and anointing
Well Jesuss refers His chosen as His Bride and rhe Bible tells us we will be married - so I guess we need that. You can put a personalbrequest not to be married to Him though.
We are betrothed, in His heart and when His Bride has been finally transformed/ resurrected, how glorious will she look.
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Luke 24:44 offers a clearer take on that " And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Now you are on the Right Path = "things concerning Me"
Time to WAKE UP and THINK now = THINK about all the "things" that concern Christ...............
TODAY hear His Voice = Read John ch17
Well that's a problem because although that's what you believe, it's not what the bible says. Yes, the NJ is the bride, but you "assume" it is the church when it doesn't actually say so, same as Rev. 19:7. You do know that the Book of Life was also common knowledge to Israel right, it's not "church" specific. The bible does "not" say we are married to Christ. Is Jesus the bridegroom? Yes! Will there be a wedding and a marriage feast? Yes! Is the church the bride? No! The bible never says we are. That's a presumption based on a couple of Paul's metaphors. Metaphors aren't doctrine, they simply explain a point in a different way.
Quite familiar with it, there are three different prayers for three different purposes. In vss. 1-5 Christ prays for himself, in vss. 6-19 he prays specifically for his 12 disciples and then Christ prays for all future believers that begin when the disciples begin their ministry after Pentecost in vss. 20-26. Your point is...?
A metephor does explain reality. A comparison of something in this physical realm that is tangible, gives us understanding of the spiritual realm, God, His love, our relationship with Him is likened to a very powerful relationship that we have on earth, marriage. It is family. As we experience the love in our families, it is as a template for His relationship to us. We need tangible comparisons to grasp spiritual concepts.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.Eph. 5:23-32
Ewq1938 shared these ss well:
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 2 Cor. 11:2
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Let's get over sentimentality and give things a honest look, 2 Cor. 11:2, Paul would not have a legal authority to do that, in context, he is espousing us to one God. Rom. 7:4, the word for "married" here is G1096 and it is used over 650 times, this is the only passage where it is translated as "married", there is a better translation, imo, and keeping w/ the context and other NT teachings would be "to become "one" with one another. The key to understanding Eph. 5:23-32 is vs. 30 "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." Will Christ marry himself? No! We are told over and over to become "one with each other" does that imply marriage? No, it's simply an expression of the complete unity we should have w/ each other in Christ. Can the church identify w/ Christ as the "head"? Yes! is our body subject to being controlled by our minds? Yes! We are sanctified and washed clean through his blood already w/o being married. Should we love our bodies as ourselves (thinking of us as the body of Christ)? then Yes! Has it ever occurred to you there is a better option than being the bride?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Always Believing
Active Member
Well, you can view it your way. I choose to accept the concept as the Bible presents it and not discard it as "Oh that's just a methaphor ... a marriage is not how we are to think of our relationship to Christ."
Not in this case, the church couldn't be part of his Body until after the crucifixion. Context determines our understanding of any scripture and the context is three separate prayers for three specific parties.
Do you know the difference between marriage and a Trinity type form of unity? Would you say they are all married to each other?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. 24For John had not yet been thrown into prison.
25Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”
27John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’
29He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled.
John ch3
This is quite a different scenario that has nothing to do w/ John17, but in this case, do you remember the Canaan woman in Matt. 15:22-26, read it? At this point in time, and always, the bride could be none other than Israel. Those that would become the gentile church are the "dogs" in this passage. In this passage, the one that "knows" the bridegroom is the Lord and Messiah, is the 'friend" of the bridegroom, not the bride.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Start over = begin reading the Gospel of John, then Acts
Pray before during an dafter you read = seek to be filled with Truth.
That is not the question to ask, nor the concept to understand.
Eph. 5:22-32 talks about rhe wife's submission to her husband in marriage as the head of the houshold as we mtue Church submits to Christ. It talks aboit the husbands love and sacrifice for his wife as Jesus' love and sacrifice for His Church ( Bride). There is also a mysterious quality to marriage, the two become one. Christ sanctifies and cleanses His Bride.
["Christ's purpose was: to perfect the church, to perfect His bride. Here it's not the bride who makes herself presentable; it is the bridegroom who labours to beautify her in order to present her to Himself. His love and self-sacrifice for her, His cleansing and sanctifying of her, are all designed for her liberation and her perfection; she should come to her full glory.
"So husbands ought to love their own wives" (vs. 28). Christ gave Himself for His church, not to crush His bride, but rather to make her everything that He longs her to be, herself in the fullness of her glory." RC Sproul, Legionaire Ministries]
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I don't deny scripture. Fact, the trinity can not have two different wives. Fact, they are already married to Israel. Fact, although a certificate of divorce was written it was never finalized as Jer. 3:8, 14, 17-18 attests. Fact, the church is never called the bride of Christ in scripture. Fact, the church is called the 'body" of Christ over and over and Christ is called the Head. What do you get when you unite the body and head? "One" completed body w/ a deeper unity than a marriage would give you. Since we are one w/ Christ and we are complete w/ him as the head, imo, that also makes "us" the bridegroom and in the ultimate act of unity (called a marriage) we shall become "one" w/ believing national Israel which is what the description of the NJ depicts.
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