Yes, as you pointed out, there are judgements along the way in the coarse of this age, although as you must know they are different in scope and purpose from the final judgement as the 'end.'
Blessings to you also ...
A Kingdom of the Son exists today or not?!
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Blessings to you also ...
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
You seem to be an extremely defensive person, using the word "accused" because I posted scripture answering your question or assertion in your OP and disagreed with what you said in your OP.
I quoted scripture that states that the Kingdom of Christ (Kingdom of God/heaven) has come.
I quoted scripture that states that the Kingdom of Christ (Kingdom of God/heaven) is coming.
Based on scripture I said that you (anyone) may as well ignore and refuse to believe in the "has come" of the Kingdom of Christ if you choose to ignore and refuse to believe the "..is coming" of the Kingdom of Christ.
.. and you call that an "accusation".
Has Jesus come, or is He coming?
The answer to the above question will answer your OP about whether the Kingdom of Christ has come, or is coming.
This is why in the Bible you will find scripture that states that the Kingdom of Christ (Kingdom of God/heaven) has come.
This is why in the Bible you will find scripture that states that the Kingdom of Christ (Kingdom of God/heaven) is coming.
But if you're going to be defensive and see replies to your OP as "accusations", I'll refrain from posting any more in your thread.
Stop with all your emotions please. If you want a calm discussion them please stay calm and explain yourself clearly...thank you
Anyway let me take the time now and begin with a series of posts for you especially, that I believe with answer you issue(s) with me.
If you cannot or are not willing to explain yourself then let me do it for you....I hope at the end you have your questions answered..
Blessing and good will always to you and anyone interested in truth...
Let me re-examine Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 13. Revisit them in light of the Kingdom of the Son, established and active even before the events leading up to 70 AD.
Let me slowly examine these verses that many folks have gotten carried away with over the years, and made Premillennialism the orthodox eschatological view of today, unfortunately.
Matt 24: 1-3; Mark 13:2-4 and Luke 21: 5-7
--------------------------------------------------
(Mat 24:1) And Jesus came out of the temple and was going on his way when his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple.
(Mat 24:2) But he answered and said to them: Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you. There shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down.
(Mat 24:3) And as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us, when shall these things be? And what is the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
(Mar 13:2) And Jesus said to him: Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another. All will be thrown down.
(Mar 13:3) And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately:
(Mar 13:4) Tell us, when will these things occur, and what shall be the sign when these things are about to happen?
(Luk 21:5) And as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and offerings, he said:
(Luk 21:6) As for these things which you behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left here one stone upon another; all shall be thrown down.
(Luk 21:7) And they asked him, saying: Teacher, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign when these things are about to happen?
---------------------------------------------
So, we can establish that Jesus pointed out to his disciples that in the future there will be the total physical destruction of the Temple. And this did occur in 70 AD by the Roman Armies, about 40 years into their future.
Its destruction pointed to a drastic and permanent change in God's plan for worship, dealing with evil and wickedness, and salvation, and the destruction of a national Israel, into a new the form, of a new Kingdom, for the new creatures of Christ, into God's new Temple, Zion - the Church or the Body of Christ as we know it today.
And after some time, Jesus was found sitting on the Mount of Olives. At least four of his disciples must have been very curious about what Jesus said of the Temple and its fate that day, and most probably about more things that Jesus shared with them along the way.
So they asked him questions about the future, without others bending their ears to listen in.
Notice that only in Matthew there is more specificity in the questions, and about Jesus' return.
So they asked about the end of the age, I would think their current age, within their generation. What are the signs before all these future events occur.
----------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post -----------
Let me slowly examine these verses that many folks have gotten carried away with over the years, and made Premillennialism the orthodox eschatological view of today, unfortunately.
Matt 24: 1-3; Mark 13:2-4 and Luke 21: 5-7
--------------------------------------------------
(Mat 24:1) And Jesus came out of the temple and was going on his way when his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple.
(Mat 24:2) But he answered and said to them: Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you. There shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down.
(Mat 24:3) And as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us, when shall these things be? And what is the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
(Mar 13:2) And Jesus said to him: Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another. All will be thrown down.
(Mar 13:3) And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately:
(Mar 13:4) Tell us, when will these things occur, and what shall be the sign when these things are about to happen?
(Luk 21:5) And as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and offerings, he said:
(Luk 21:6) As for these things which you behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left here one stone upon another; all shall be thrown down.
(Luk 21:7) And they asked him, saying: Teacher, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign when these things are about to happen?
---------------------------------------------
So, we can establish that Jesus pointed out to his disciples that in the future there will be the total physical destruction of the Temple. And this did occur in 70 AD by the Roman Armies, about 40 years into their future.
Its destruction pointed to a drastic and permanent change in God's plan for worship, dealing with evil and wickedness, and salvation, and the destruction of a national Israel, into a new the form, of a new Kingdom, for the new creatures of Christ, into God's new Temple, Zion - the Church or the Body of Christ as we know it today.
And after some time, Jesus was found sitting on the Mount of Olives. At least four of his disciples must have been very curious about what Jesus said of the Temple and its fate that day, and most probably about more things that Jesus shared with them along the way.
So they asked him questions about the future, without others bending their ears to listen in.
Notice that only in Matthew there is more specificity in the questions, and about Jesus' return.
So they asked about the end of the age, I would think their current age, within their generation. What are the signs before all these future events occur.
----------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post -----------
Matt 24:4-5; Mark 13:5-6; Luke 21:8
(Mat 24:4) And Jesus answered and said to them: Take heed that no one lead you astray.
(Mat 24:5) For many shall come in my name, saying: I am the Christ, and shall lead many astray.
(Mar 13:5) And Jesus began to say to them: Take heed that no one lead you astray.
(Mar 13:6) Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray.
(Luk 21:8) And he said: Take heed you are not led astray. For many shall come in my name, saying: I am he, and, The time is at hand. Do not be led astray by them.
----------------------------------
Notice that only in Luke 21:8 does it say that false Christs shall indicate the end of their time or the age.
So, in answering the question of Jesus' return at the end of the age, he said that many will come and announce that they are him, and say that the end of the age is near or nearly at its end.
Leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD there were many false Christs that misled people under those stressed, dangerous and panicked times. These false Christs arose in reaction to, and as a clear sign of the presence of God and the impact of the new Kingdom, of the Son. That judgement of people and physical destruction of their world would occur as godless people of little to no faith populated both Jerusalem and Judea by 65 AD.
I suspect because of the every-increasing Roman intrusions, incursions and increasing hardships caused by them, these false Christ become more prevalent and preached gloom and doom, and for desperate people to follow their lead. This must have reached a climax when Jerusalem was under siege by the Roman Army for 5 years - 65-70 AD.
The destructions of the events between 65- 70 AD represented the official transition, end of things for that age, from the old physical Kingdom of God on earth, of national Israel, to the new Kingdom of Christ in both heaven and on the earth, of the true spiritual Israel.
--------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
(Mat 24:4) And Jesus answered and said to them: Take heed that no one lead you astray.
(Mat 24:5) For many shall come in my name, saying: I am the Christ, and shall lead many astray.
(Mar 13:5) And Jesus began to say to them: Take heed that no one lead you astray.
(Mar 13:6) Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray.
(Luk 21:8) And he said: Take heed you are not led astray. For many shall come in my name, saying: I am he, and, The time is at hand. Do not be led astray by them.
----------------------------------
Notice that only in Luke 21:8 does it say that false Christs shall indicate the end of their time or the age.
So, in answering the question of Jesus' return at the end of the age, he said that many will come and announce that they are him, and say that the end of the age is near or nearly at its end.
Leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD there were many false Christs that misled people under those stressed, dangerous and panicked times. These false Christs arose in reaction to, and as a clear sign of the presence of God and the impact of the new Kingdom, of the Son. That judgement of people and physical destruction of their world would occur as godless people of little to no faith populated both Jerusalem and Judea by 65 AD.
I suspect because of the every-increasing Roman intrusions, incursions and increasing hardships caused by them, these false Christ become more prevalent and preached gloom and doom, and for desperate people to follow their lead. This must have reached a climax when Jerusalem was under siege by the Roman Army for 5 years - 65-70 AD.
The destructions of the events between 65- 70 AD represented the official transition, end of things for that age, from the old physical Kingdom of God on earth, of national Israel, to the new Kingdom of Christ in both heaven and on the earth, of the true spiritual Israel.
--------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
Matt 24:6-8; Mark 24:7-8 and Luke 21:9-11
(Mat 24:6) And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. Ensure you are not alarmed, for this must happen- but the end is not yet.
(Mat 24:7) For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and earthquakes in various places.
(Mat 24:8) But all these things are the beginning of the birth pains.
(Mar 13:7) And when you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, do not be disturbed. These things must take place, but the end is not yet.
(Mar 13:8) For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there shall be earthquakes in various places, there shall be famines. These things are the beginning of the birth pains.
(Luk 21:9) And when you shall hear of wars and revolutions, do not be terrified. For these things are necessary and must happen first, but the end will not be immediately.
(Luk 21:10) Then said he to them: Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom,
(Luk 21:11) and there shall be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences, and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.
-------------------------------------------------
These were the times and conditions leading up to the events of 70 AD. During these times most of the entire Roman Empire was in turmoil after it zenith about the time Christ was born, with revolutions and tribes waring against each other with deadly diseases running ramped. And earthquakes in these areas were just as common as any other time, and even by today's standards.
--------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
(Mat 24:6) And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. Ensure you are not alarmed, for this must happen- but the end is not yet.
(Mat 24:7) For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there shall be famines and earthquakes in various places.
(Mat 24:8) But all these things are the beginning of the birth pains.
(Mar 13:7) And when you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, do not be disturbed. These things must take place, but the end is not yet.
(Mar 13:8) For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there shall be earthquakes in various places, there shall be famines. These things are the beginning of the birth pains.
(Luk 21:9) And when you shall hear of wars and revolutions, do not be terrified. For these things are necessary and must happen first, but the end will not be immediately.
(Luk 21:10) Then said he to them: Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom,
(Luk 21:11) and there shall be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences, and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.
-------------------------------------------------
These were the times and conditions leading up to the events of 70 AD. During these times most of the entire Roman Empire was in turmoil after it zenith about the time Christ was born, with revolutions and tribes waring against each other with deadly diseases running ramped. And earthquakes in these areas were just as common as any other time, and even by today's standards.
--------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
Matt 24:9-14; Mark 24:9-13 and Luke 21:12-19
(Mat 24:9) Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you; and you shall be hated by all the nations for my name's sake.
(Mat 24:10) And then shall many stumble and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.
(Mat 24:11) And many false prophets shall arise and shall lead many astray.
(Mat 24:12) And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the majority shall grow cold.
(Mat 24:13) But he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.
(Mat 24:14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations- and then shall the end come.
(Mar 13:9) But be warned. For they shall deliver you up to councils, and in synagogues they shall beat you, and before governors and kings shall you stand for my sake, to bear witness before them.
(Mar 13:10) And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
(Mar 13:11) Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Say whatever shall be given you in that hour, for it is not you that will speak but the Holy Spirit.
(Mar 13:12) And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children shall rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
(Mar 13:13) And you shall be hated by all for my name's sake; but he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.
(Luk 21:12) But more significantly than all these things, they shall lay their hands on you and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name's sake.
(Luk 21:13) It shall turn out to be your opportunity to give a witness.
(Luk 21:14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer.
(Luk 21:15) For I will give you the words and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to contradict.
(Luk 21:16) But you shall be delivered up even by your parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they shall kill some of you.
(Luk 21:17) And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
(Luk 21:18) But not a hair of your head shall perish.
(Luk 21:19) In your patience, you shall win your souls.
-------------------------------------------------
These events obviously occurred leading up to the events of 70 AD.
The Kingdom was now growing with the all remnant of national Israel being saved in the process, and many did die during these tribulation times.
Notice that the gospel was and commanded to be preached to all the known world, under severe testing and persecution, and death.
Not like preaching the gospel under our modern times, in mostly comfortable and safe settings, although there has been the few that were persecuted and brought to death because of the gospel over the centuries. It pails though as compared to those times leading up to 70 AD. And after the gospel was initially preached to the known world, then the events led directly to the end of the age and the destruction of Jerusalem.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
(Mat 24:9) Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you; and you shall be hated by all the nations for my name's sake.
(Mat 24:10) And then shall many stumble and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.
(Mat 24:11) And many false prophets shall arise and shall lead many astray.
(Mat 24:12) And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the majority shall grow cold.
(Mat 24:13) But he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.
(Mat 24:14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations- and then shall the end come.
(Mar 13:9) But be warned. For they shall deliver you up to councils, and in synagogues they shall beat you, and before governors and kings shall you stand for my sake, to bear witness before them.
(Mar 13:10) And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
(Mar 13:11) Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Say whatever shall be given you in that hour, for it is not you that will speak but the Holy Spirit.
(Mar 13:12) And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children shall rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
(Mar 13:13) And you shall be hated by all for my name's sake; but he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.
(Luk 21:12) But more significantly than all these things, they shall lay their hands on you and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name's sake.
(Luk 21:13) It shall turn out to be your opportunity to give a witness.
(Luk 21:14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer.
(Luk 21:15) For I will give you the words and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to contradict.
(Luk 21:16) But you shall be delivered up even by your parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they shall kill some of you.
(Luk 21:17) And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
(Luk 21:18) But not a hair of your head shall perish.
(Luk 21:19) In your patience, you shall win your souls.
-------------------------------------------------
These events obviously occurred leading up to the events of 70 AD.
The Kingdom was now growing with the all remnant of national Israel being saved in the process, and many did die during these tribulation times.
Notice that the gospel was and commanded to be preached to all the known world, under severe testing and persecution, and death.
Not like preaching the gospel under our modern times, in mostly comfortable and safe settings, although there has been the few that were persecuted and brought to death because of the gospel over the centuries. It pails though as compared to those times leading up to 70 AD. And after the gospel was initially preached to the known world, then the events led directly to the end of the age and the destruction of Jerusalem.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
Matt 24:15-26; Mark 24:14-23 and Luke 21:20-24
(Mat 24:15) Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand),
(Mat 24:16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(Mat 24:17) Let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his house.
(Mat 24:18) And let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.
(Mat 24:19) But woe to them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
(Mat 24:20) And pray that your flight is not in the winter, nor on a Sabbath.
(Mat 24:21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved- but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(Mat 24:23) Then if anyone shall say to you, Here is the Christ, or another, Here is the Christ- do not believe them!
(Mat 24:24) For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, which shall show great signs and wonders so as to lead astray- if possible- even the elect.
(Mat 24:25) Listen, I have told you beforehand.
(Mat 24:26) Therefore, if they shall say to you: Look, he is in the wilderness! Do not go. Look, he is in the inner chambers! Do not believe it.
(Mar 13:14) But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not (let him that reads understand), then let them that are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(Mar 13:15) And let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in to take anything out his house.
(Mar 13:16) And let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.
(Mar 13:17) But alas for women who are pregnant, and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
(Mar 13:18) And pray that it is not in the winter.
(Mar 13:19) For those days shall cause distress, such as there has never been similar, from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be again.
(Mar 13:20) And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, which He chose, He shortened the days.
(Mar 13:21) And then if anyone shall say to you: Look, here is the Christ! or Look! There he is!- do not believe them.
(Mar 13:22) For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray (if possible) the elect.
(Mar 13:23) But be warned, I have told you all things beforehand.
(Luk 21:20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
(Luk 21:21) Then let them that are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let them that are in the midst of her depart, and do not let them that are in the countryside enter therein.
(Luk 21:22) For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(Luk 21:23) Woe to them that are with child in those days, and to those nursing babies! For there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath upon this people.
(Luk 21:24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden under foot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
----------------------------------------
Again these events all depict the stressful times leading up to the Roman conquest of Judea and Jerusalem between 65-70 AD. The Romans represent the foreigners nations of the known world, as they had them all, of all nations in their service and army, mostly in auxiliary units. And these foreign nations, as in the form of Rome or the Roman armies, were used by God to judge and destroy his godless people and put an end to the old customs, rituals and Law, and Temple worship. To permanently end the National Israel that survived since Jacob to that day, and now it was gone, deliberately erased for all time.
Notice that Luke 21:20 is rarely used by most Premillennialists, to conceal the simple definition of 'the abomination of desolation.'
And then there is the misused of Luke 21:24 that simply means that the Roman armies representing all nations, continued its devastation and killing of Jerusalem and Judea until it all became completely desolate. There is no future 2000 plus year view of this verse that finds accommodation for yet another risen from the ashes of the grave as a phoenix, a new national Israel, as Premelliniumists would try to convince one of.
The emphasis again is on false Christs and false teachers, to mislead people and even the elect or saved ones, if possible.
The signal to flee to the hills was when the Romans armies with their pagan banners and idols draped, covered and surrounded Jerusalem, and especially the Temple and holy places. This is the abomination of or that causes total desolation, and caused a once fruitful and established fertile land, to become wasteland by the Roman armies, their destruction they caused in their wake, a land only now suited for desert animals and vultures and predatory birds.
Josephus said that famine, disease and war killed 1.1 million people in and around Jerusalem alone. A great Tribulation indeed. And that does not include this similar number again, taken as slaves as manual labor, breaking rock, and working the Romans lands in all their occupied nations they conquered, and many forced into death, as unwilling participants in the gladiator games of amusement, in Rome.
(Mar 13:23) But be warned, I have told you all things beforehand. This verses now indicates and closes out all the queries posed by the disciples to Jesus.
In the next verses we see the word of God moving away from literal meanings and language into more poetic, figurative and metaphoric language.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
(Mat 24:15) Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that reads understand),
(Mat 24:16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(Mat 24:17) Let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his house.
(Mat 24:18) And let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.
(Mat 24:19) But woe to them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
(Mat 24:20) And pray that your flight is not in the winter, nor on a Sabbath.
(Mat 24:21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved- but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(Mat 24:23) Then if anyone shall say to you, Here is the Christ, or another, Here is the Christ- do not believe them!
(Mat 24:24) For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, which shall show great signs and wonders so as to lead astray- if possible- even the elect.
(Mat 24:25) Listen, I have told you beforehand.
(Mat 24:26) Therefore, if they shall say to you: Look, he is in the wilderness! Do not go. Look, he is in the inner chambers! Do not believe it.
(Mar 13:14) But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not (let him that reads understand), then let them that are in Judea flee to the mountains.
(Mar 13:15) And let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in to take anything out his house.
(Mar 13:16) And let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.
(Mar 13:17) But alas for women who are pregnant, and for those who are nursing infants in those days!
(Mar 13:18) And pray that it is not in the winter.
(Mar 13:19) For those days shall cause distress, such as there has never been similar, from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be again.
(Mar 13:20) And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, which He chose, He shortened the days.
(Mar 13:21) And then if anyone shall say to you: Look, here is the Christ! or Look! There he is!- do not believe them.
(Mar 13:22) For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray (if possible) the elect.
(Mar 13:23) But be warned, I have told you all things beforehand.
(Luk 21:20) But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
(Luk 21:21) Then let them that are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let them that are in the midst of her depart, and do not let them that are in the countryside enter therein.
(Luk 21:22) For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(Luk 21:23) Woe to them that are with child in those days, and to those nursing babies! For there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath upon this people.
(Luk 21:24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden under foot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
----------------------------------------
Again these events all depict the stressful times leading up to the Roman conquest of Judea and Jerusalem between 65-70 AD. The Romans represent the foreigners nations of the known world, as they had them all, of all nations in their service and army, mostly in auxiliary units. And these foreign nations, as in the form of Rome or the Roman armies, were used by God to judge and destroy his godless people and put an end to the old customs, rituals and Law, and Temple worship. To permanently end the National Israel that survived since Jacob to that day, and now it was gone, deliberately erased for all time.
Notice that Luke 21:20 is rarely used by most Premillennialists, to conceal the simple definition of 'the abomination of desolation.'
And then there is the misused of Luke 21:24 that simply means that the Roman armies representing all nations, continued its devastation and killing of Jerusalem and Judea until it all became completely desolate. There is no future 2000 plus year view of this verse that finds accommodation for yet another risen from the ashes of the grave as a phoenix, a new national Israel, as Premelliniumists would try to convince one of.
The emphasis again is on false Christs and false teachers, to mislead people and even the elect or saved ones, if possible.
The signal to flee to the hills was when the Romans armies with their pagan banners and idols draped, covered and surrounded Jerusalem, and especially the Temple and holy places. This is the abomination of or that causes total desolation, and caused a once fruitful and established fertile land, to become wasteland by the Roman armies, their destruction they caused in their wake, a land only now suited for desert animals and vultures and predatory birds.
Josephus said that famine, disease and war killed 1.1 million people in and around Jerusalem alone. A great Tribulation indeed. And that does not include this similar number again, taken as slaves as manual labor, breaking rock, and working the Romans lands in all their occupied nations they conquered, and many forced into death, as unwilling participants in the gladiator games of amusement, in Rome.
(Mar 13:23) But be warned, I have told you all things beforehand. This verses now indicates and closes out all the queries posed by the disciples to Jesus.
In the next verses we see the word of God moving away from literal meanings and language into more poetic, figurative and metaphoric language.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
Matt 24:27-31 Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:25-28
(Mat 24:27) For as the lightning comes from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
(Mat 24:28) Wherever the carcase is, there will the eagles gather together.
(Mat 24:29) But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(Mat 24:30) And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in heaven. Then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:31) And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mar 13:24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light,
(Mar 13:25) and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
(Mar 13:26) And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Mar 13:27) And then shall he send the angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(Luk 21:25) And there shall be signs in sun, moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves.
(Luk 21:26) Men will be fainting for fear in expectation of the things which are coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(Luk 21:27) And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud, with power and great glory.
(Luk 21:28) But when these things begin to happen, look up, lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These verses are symbolic of the Son of Man in the Kingdom coming to judge and destroy national Israel for its disobedience. And that (verse 31 of Matthew, verse 27 of Mark) the Son of Man will also continue with the expansion of his Kingdom by the preaching of the gospel to nations beyond the generation of those living in 70 AD. In particular, at that immediate time, to all the remnant of Israel.
(Isa 11:11) It will happen in that day that the Lord will set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant that is left of His people from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
(Isa 11:12) He will set up a banner for the nations and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
(Isa 11:13) The envy also of Ephraim will depart, and those who persecute Judah will be cut off. Ephraim won’t envy Judah, and Judah won’t persecute Ephraim.
(Isa 11:14) They will fly down on the shoulders of the Philistines on the west. Together they will plunder the children of the east. They will extend their power over Edom and Moab, and the children of Ammon will obey them.
(Isa 11:15) Yahweh will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with His scorching wind He will wave His hand over the River, and will split it into seven streams, and cause men to march over in sandals.
(Isa 11:16) There will be a highway for the remnant that is left of His people from Assyria, like there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
(Act 2:38) And Peter said to them: Every one of you should repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(Act 2:39) For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to him.
and..
(Rom 15:11) " And again: Praise the Lord all you (foreign nations)Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise Him. "
(Rom 15:12) And again Isaiah said: There shall be the root of Jesse and he that arises to rule over the (foreign nations) Gentiles. On him shall the (foreign nations) Gentiles hope.
(Rom 15:13) " Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope, in the power of the Holy Spirit. "
Here are some verses below that show similar symbolic language used in Matt 24:29-30. They are not meant to mean literal clouds, lightening, the actual sun being darkened etc. It is the extreme mood language of the enormous power of YHWH and now possessed by his Son upon mankind - for judgment and destruction, then and finally in the future when the earth shall be destroyed completely.
(Isa 13:9) Behold, the day of Yahweh comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy its sinners out of it.
(Isa 13:10) For the stars of the sky and its constellations will not give their light, the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine.
(Isa 13:11) I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will humble the arrogance of the terrible.
(Isa 13:12) I will make people more valuable than fine gold, even a person than the pure gold of Ophir.
(Isa 13:13) Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place in the wrath of Yahweh of Armies, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(Isa 19:1) Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt. The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence; and the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
(Isa 34:2) For Yahweh is enraged against all the nations and angry with all their armies. He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over for slaughter.
(Isa 34:3) Their slain will also be cast out, and the stench of their dead bodies will come up; and the mountains will melt in their blood.
(Isa 34:4) All of the army of the sky will be dissolved, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll, and all its armies will fade away, as a leaf fades from off a vine or a fig tree.
(Isa 34:5) For My sword has drunk its fill in the sky. Behold, it will come down on Edom and on the people of My curse for judgement.
(Eze 32:7) When I shall extinguish you, I will cover the sky and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud and the moon shall not give its light.
(Eze 32:8) All the bright lights of the sky will I make dark over you and set darkness on your land, says the Lord Yahweh.
(Joe 2:10) The earth quakes before them, the skies tremble, the sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.
(Joe 2:11) Yahweh thunders His voice before His army; for His forces are very great; for he is strong who obeys His command; for the day of Yahweh is great and very awesome, and who can endure it?
(Mat 26:64) Jesus said to him: You have said it; nevertheless I say to you, from this time forward you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.
This means that the Kingdom of the Son in heaven is already established and very active, with spiritual power of YHWH himself through and give through his Son, covering and affecting the entire earth where men dwell.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
(Mat 24:27) For as the lightning comes from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
(Mat 24:28) Wherever the carcase is, there will the eagles gather together.
(Mat 24:29) But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(Mat 24:30) And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in heaven. Then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Mat 24:31) And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mar 13:24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light,
(Mar 13:25) and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
(Mar 13:26) And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(Mar 13:27) And then shall he send the angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(Luk 21:25) And there shall be signs in sun, moon and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the waves.
(Luk 21:26) Men will be fainting for fear in expectation of the things which are coming on the world; for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
(Luk 21:27) And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud, with power and great glory.
(Luk 21:28) But when these things begin to happen, look up, lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These verses are symbolic of the Son of Man in the Kingdom coming to judge and destroy national Israel for its disobedience. And that (verse 31 of Matthew, verse 27 of Mark) the Son of Man will also continue with the expansion of his Kingdom by the preaching of the gospel to nations beyond the generation of those living in 70 AD. In particular, at that immediate time, to all the remnant of Israel.
(Isa 11:11) It will happen in that day that the Lord will set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant that is left of His people from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
(Isa 11:12) He will set up a banner for the nations and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
(Isa 11:13) The envy also of Ephraim will depart, and those who persecute Judah will be cut off. Ephraim won’t envy Judah, and Judah won’t persecute Ephraim.
(Isa 11:14) They will fly down on the shoulders of the Philistines on the west. Together they will plunder the children of the east. They will extend their power over Edom and Moab, and the children of Ammon will obey them.
(Isa 11:15) Yahweh will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with His scorching wind He will wave His hand over the River, and will split it into seven streams, and cause men to march over in sandals.
(Isa 11:16) There will be a highway for the remnant that is left of His people from Assyria, like there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
(Act 2:38) And Peter said to them: Every one of you should repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
(Act 2:39) For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to him.
and..
(Rom 15:11) " And again: Praise the Lord all you (foreign nations)Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise Him. "
(Rom 15:12) And again Isaiah said: There shall be the root of Jesse and he that arises to rule over the (foreign nations) Gentiles. On him shall the (foreign nations) Gentiles hope.
(Rom 15:13) " Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope, in the power of the Holy Spirit. "
Here are some verses below that show similar symbolic language used in Matt 24:29-30. They are not meant to mean literal clouds, lightening, the actual sun being darkened etc. It is the extreme mood language of the enormous power of YHWH and now possessed by his Son upon mankind - for judgment and destruction, then and finally in the future when the earth shall be destroyed completely.
(Isa 13:9) Behold, the day of Yahweh comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy its sinners out of it.
(Isa 13:10) For the stars of the sky and its constellations will not give their light, the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine.
(Isa 13:11) I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will humble the arrogance of the terrible.
(Isa 13:12) I will make people more valuable than fine gold, even a person than the pure gold of Ophir.
(Isa 13:13) Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place in the wrath of Yahweh of Armies, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(Isa 19:1) Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt. The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence; and the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.
(Isa 34:2) For Yahweh is enraged against all the nations and angry with all their armies. He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over for slaughter.
(Isa 34:3) Their slain will also be cast out, and the stench of their dead bodies will come up; and the mountains will melt in their blood.
(Isa 34:4) All of the army of the sky will be dissolved, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll, and all its armies will fade away, as a leaf fades from off a vine or a fig tree.
(Isa 34:5) For My sword has drunk its fill in the sky. Behold, it will come down on Edom and on the people of My curse for judgement.
(Eze 32:7) When I shall extinguish you, I will cover the sky and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud and the moon shall not give its light.
(Eze 32:8) All the bright lights of the sky will I make dark over you and set darkness on your land, says the Lord Yahweh.
(Joe 2:10) The earth quakes before them, the skies tremble, the sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.
(Joe 2:11) Yahweh thunders His voice before His army; for His forces are very great; for he is strong who obeys His command; for the day of Yahweh is great and very awesome, and who can endure it?
(Mat 26:64) Jesus said to him: You have said it; nevertheless I say to you, from this time forward you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.
This means that the Kingdom of the Son in heaven is already established and very active, with spiritual power of YHWH himself through and give through his Son, covering and affecting the entire earth where men dwell.
-------------------------------------continues on next pertinent post-------------------
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
What, you can't perceive that God's Kingdom, which as you say and we all agree, exists in Heaven, won't exist physically _ on earth, where everyone _ on earth _ worships Christ _ Who will rule on earth?
"Therefore pray in this way: Our Father, who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven."
How do you see this sinful world played out? Do you think life will just continue with sin in the world and eventually the gospel will slowly transform everyone, with all other religions slowly being dissolved?
The Bible tells us a different story. Jesus will return in judgment and rid the planet of sin and evil and that includes all false religions. That won't be a gradual process either. The GT will last 3.5 years and then He will return with wrath. His wrath may only last 40 days or more beyond that time.
Matt 24:32-35, Mark 13:28-31 and Luke 21:29-33
(Mat 24:32) Now from the fig tree learn her parable. When her branch has become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near.
(Mat 24:33) Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that he is near- at the doors.
(Mat 24:34) Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass away until all these things are accomplished.
(Mat 24:35) Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(Mar 13:28) Now from the fig tree learn its lesson. When its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near.
(Mar 13:29) So you also, when you see these things happening, you will know that he is near- at the doors.
(Mar 13:30) Truly I say to you: This generation shall not pass away, until all these things happen.
(Mar 13:31) Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(Luk 21:29) And he told them a parable: Behold the fig tree and all the trees.
(Luk 21:30) When they shoot forth, you see it, and know of yourselves that the summer is now near.
(Luk 21:31) Even so, you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
(Luk 21:32) Truly I say to you: This generation shall not pass away until all things are accomplished.
(Luk 21:33) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Only Luke 21:31 explains what is about to happen more clearly, that will change everything for the local populace: their belief of the gospel into the new Kindgom of the Son - 'he' is near, the King who is the kingdom indeed. It comes on time at the Son's ascension to the Father.
And that generation of about 40 years, did see the transition/transformation of national Israel with it destruction, into the growing spiritual Kingdom of the Son, with its remnants of rescinded national Israel along with many foreign nationals.
-------------------------------------
Matt 24:36-51, Mark 13:32-37 and Luke 21:34-36
(Mat 24:36) But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
(Mat 24:37) And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.
(Mat 24:38) For as in those days which were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
(Mat 24:39) and they did not realize until the flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
(Mat 24:40) Then two men shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one left.
(Mat 24:41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one left.
(Mat 24:42) Therefore, stay awake! For you do not know on what day your Lord comes.
(Mat 24:43) But know this! That if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
(Mat 24:44) Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
(Mat 24:45) Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household to give them their food in due time?
(Mat 24:46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
(Mat 24:47) Truly I say to you, that he will set him over all that he has.
(Mat 24:48) But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord’s coming is delayed,
(Mat 24:49) and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants and shall eat and drink with the drunkards,
(Mat 24:50) the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not expect him and in an hour when he does not know,
(Mat 24:51) and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mar 13:32) But of that day or that hour knows no one except the Father, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son.
(Mar 13:33) Be warned, watch and pray. For you do not know when the time is.
(Mar 13:34) Like a man going on a journey; on leaving his house, he puts his servants in charge, each according to his assigned tasks. He also commands the gatekeeper to stay awake.
(Mar 13:35) Therefore stay awake. For you do not know when the lord of the house comes, whether in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning.
(Mar 13:36) In case he comes suddenly finding you asleep-
(Mar 13:37) what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake!
(Luk 21:34) But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with partying, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you unexpectedly.
(Luk 21:35) For so shall it come upon all those that dwell on the face of all the earth.
(Luk 21:36) But watch continually, praying that you may have strength to prevail against all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.
-----------------
So what is in store for us today?
The new Kingdom will continue to grow to its full capacity like the Ark being filled awaiting the flood of judgment of the wicked when the Son returns and intervenes. Then redemption and resurrection and salvation is finally realized, into the new land of the new earth of the spiritual not physical Kingdom of God.
--------------------------
And the spiritual Kingdom did in fact come as the prayer requested it , a few years later.
No, as per scripture, the world will continue to decay and degenerate with more evil as in the days of Noah. Then eventually only one resurrection of the dead and judgement at one time, and the destruction of the current heavens and the current earth into the matured spiritual Kingdom established at the ascension of Christ.
(Mat 24:32) Now from the fig tree learn her parable. When her branch has become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near.
(Mat 24:33) Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that he is near- at the doors.
(Mat 24:34) Truly I say to you, This generation shall not pass away until all these things are accomplished.
(Mat 24:35) Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(Mar 13:28) Now from the fig tree learn its lesson. When its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near.
(Mar 13:29) So you also, when you see these things happening, you will know that he is near- at the doors.
(Mar 13:30) Truly I say to you: This generation shall not pass away, until all these things happen.
(Mar 13:31) Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(Luk 21:29) And he told them a parable: Behold the fig tree and all the trees.
(Luk 21:30) When they shoot forth, you see it, and know of yourselves that the summer is now near.
(Luk 21:31) Even so, you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
(Luk 21:32) Truly I say to you: This generation shall not pass away until all things are accomplished.
(Luk 21:33) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Only Luke 21:31 explains what is about to happen more clearly, that will change everything for the local populace: their belief of the gospel into the new Kindgom of the Son - 'he' is near, the King who is the kingdom indeed. It comes on time at the Son's ascension to the Father.
And that generation of about 40 years, did see the transition/transformation of national Israel with it destruction, into the growing spiritual Kingdom of the Son, with its remnants of rescinded national Israel along with many foreign nationals.
-------------------------------------
Matt 24:36-51, Mark 13:32-37 and Luke 21:34-36
(Mat 24:36) But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
(Mat 24:37) And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.
(Mat 24:38) For as in those days which were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
(Mat 24:39) and they did not realize until the flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
(Mat 24:40) Then two men shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one left.
(Mat 24:41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one left.
(Mat 24:42) Therefore, stay awake! For you do not know on what day your Lord comes.
(Mat 24:43) But know this! That if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
(Mat 24:44) Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
(Mat 24:45) Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household to give them their food in due time?
(Mat 24:46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
(Mat 24:47) Truly I say to you, that he will set him over all that he has.
(Mat 24:48) But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord’s coming is delayed,
(Mat 24:49) and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants and shall eat and drink with the drunkards,
(Mat 24:50) the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not expect him and in an hour when he does not know,
(Mat 24:51) and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Mar 13:32) But of that day or that hour knows no one except the Father, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son.
(Mar 13:33) Be warned, watch and pray. For you do not know when the time is.
(Mar 13:34) Like a man going on a journey; on leaving his house, he puts his servants in charge, each according to his assigned tasks. He also commands the gatekeeper to stay awake.
(Mar 13:35) Therefore stay awake. For you do not know when the lord of the house comes, whether in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning.
(Mar 13:36) In case he comes suddenly finding you asleep-
(Mar 13:37) what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake!
(Luk 21:34) But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with partying, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you unexpectedly.
(Luk 21:35) For so shall it come upon all those that dwell on the face of all the earth.
(Luk 21:36) But watch continually, praying that you may have strength to prevail against all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.
-----------------
So what is in store for us today?
The new Kingdom will continue to grow to its full capacity like the Ark being filled awaiting the flood of judgment of the wicked when the Son returns and intervenes. Then redemption and resurrection and salvation is finally realized, into the new land of the new earth of the spiritual not physical Kingdom of God.
--------------------------
Well no Ron, there is no human-compliant physical Kingdom to come, only one in spirit, as intended.
And the spiritual Kingdom did in fact come as the prayer requested it , a few years later.
No, as per scripture, the world will continue to decay and degenerate with more evil as in the days of Noah. Then eventually only one resurrection of the dead and judgement at one time, and the destruction of the current heavens and the current earth into the matured spiritual Kingdom established at the ascension of Christ.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I see you're not interested in discussion when someone produces scripture that refutes your assertions.
Making nonsensical remarks about someone's "emotions" in order to side-step the scriptures produced which refute your premise makes it impossible to have a logical discussion with you, so I'm out. There isn't anything 'emotional' in the posts I made quoting the scriptures you need to consider for a balanced view.
You obviously prefer your own faulty interpretations of scripture and you've made it clear you prefer your own unbalanced views.
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