Sure. There are many Gentiles in Israel, and in Nation surrounding Israel.
Sure. The times of the Gentiles IMO, (who rejected God) will be fulfilled by destruction upon the Earth.
A NEW TAKE ON THE AOD
- Thread starter Ronald David Bruno
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Sure. There are many Gentiles in Israel, and in Nation surrounding Israel.
Sure. The times of the Gentiles IMO, (who rejected God) will be fulfilled by destruction upon the Earth.
Nothing new under the Sun, what was shall be.
Perhaps the “supposed Temple Mount”, is not the “Temple Mount”!
Sort of with you on this point.
A “scholar” is in simple terms a long time “student” of a particular subject.
Regarding “a Religious” subject....a long time “student” could be a “philosopher”. EEEK.
@Taken Hebrews 13 seems to indicate very clearly that the world now is the scene of the Lord Jesus' rejection.
Gods Design for mortals from day one has been DIVISION.
Division between mortals and Division for mortals to be With or Without Him.
And Gods Grace IS opportunity for a mortal Without Him, to become With Him.
We already Know, some people are so content in their, IQ, their Talent, their Cleverness, their Wealth, their Comfort, their power....they have zero interest or consideration concerning God.
Yes Division occurs, but the BIG “rejection” of God, will occur when God “separates” forever, the “divided” with Him from those without Him.
Glory to God,
Taken
When we consider how searching it is, reminds how daily Scripture reading and prayer is so vital and life changing...
No, sorry, I am a Pre-Millennialist.
Mid-trib/Pre-wrath _ for me _ means the rapture occurs at the LAST TRUMPET, which is the SEVENTH (Rev. 11:15). This obviously means we will go through most of the GT, just not the worst part, which exists in the Seven Bowls of Wrath.
I have a bit different view of Revelation, in that the events are not necessarily chronological. Lots of events coincide, overlap and are accumulative. To me it is like looking at a transparent sphere of events. As you turn the sphere you see different vantage points of events on the surface and inside.
It is a mysterious book and I doubt anyone has it totally figured out -which is why there are a half-dozen views. God constructed purposely that way, not to cause confusion, but to keep it mysterious, something we would ponder and labor over. It gives a blessing, that is to me hope that all this crap will come to an end. It's all there though: the end of the age, the Second Coming, Judgment that will put down sin and evil and usher in a New Millennial Kingdom with real peace and love throughout; with One Religion and everyone Christian, with Christ as King, literally sitting on His Throne in Jerusalem.
I do not adhere to the Gap theory, only shop at the Gap occasionally.
I don't see a 7-year GT, just 3 1/2 years. We see it reiterated as 1260 days (1290 and 1335 as well), 42 months, (times, time and a half of time).
I don't see a New Temple being built prior to this GT, but afterwards of course, ordered and built by Christ.
The GT has likely already begun with this pandemic, surrounded by lies, evil, manipulation, more stress throughout the world in every country and an apparent One World Government behind it. If it is not the GT yet, it certainly is the "beginning of sorrows" that precedes it.
But I really think the Rider of the White Horse has been given a crown (coronavirus), has a bow and rode out to conquer almost two years ago. If we start at the begginning in Wuhan, the first case was Oct. or Nov. 2019. You figure out what that implies.
Peace we have in Christ, but certainly the world does not have much to offer right now and it will get much worse. Fear not, Jesus is Coming!
Capisce?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But that is not what is written.
I agree! but teh person in Daniel signs or enables a covenant for 7 years, as it is written in Gods Word
Well part of a day is called a day but 3 1/2 years are not 7 years! This is you making garbage up! Jesus w2as not dead for 3 days and 3 nights. He died approx Fri. 3 PM and rose sometime before dawn sunday morning. He was dead less than 48 hours but in Jewish counting that is historically and empiracally estabvvlished that is called 3 days! You are making something up.
Actually, if you look at Jewish history, During Jesus life, their was huge Messianic fervor. And it is not a remnantr protion according to Gods Word.
No people did and then blame god! You need to show where there is a passage that clearly (and not alludes or allefgorizes) that Gentriles became part of the New Covenant of Jer. 31.
Well scholars are not the Word of God! When one looks at what is written and how it is written, it does not say that!
Once again, that is not what is written. Jesus ended the effectiveness of teh sacrificial system. but in Daniel what god wrote is that teh physical system itself ceased. You are just wrong in deciding what god thinks, when He made it clear in His Word.
Yes when a Jew or gentile in this church age gets saved, they become everlastingly righteous, but that is not what god said in the New Covenant. Even you yourself correctly said the New covenant is for Jews only! Are you changing your mind now?
Show a passage that explicitly says that He physically ended teh sacrificial system. BTW in the millenial kingdom- the sascrificial system will be active again.
So now you feel teh need to divide the ending of teh sacrificial system to a spiritual and physical? Scriptural support for this?
Yeah I read that post. You gave a possible scenario based on the fac t no one survived to write about it. Easy to make such an unempirical claim. But we have no record of Titus ever entering teh holy of holies. Not even Jospehus who saw the temple destroyed and lived to write about it.
Well if one of them enters the holy place of teh rebuilt temple, declares Him,self God and Israel flees for their lives, then we have something real and not made up to deal with!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Error Alert!
The New Covenant includes both Jew and Gentile "in one new man" reconciled to God "in one body" through the cross.
Eph 2:11-22 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— (12) that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (13) But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (14) For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, (15) having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, (16) and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. (17) And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. (18) For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. (19) Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, (20) having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, (21) in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, (22) in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
"The trampling of the holy city by the Gentiles is mentioned in the Gospels and the Apocalypse so we can be doubly aware."
"Abomination of Desolation = Gentiles Trampling Jerusalem"
how about
"Abomination of Desolation = Gentiles Supporting Jerusalem"
(these statements below are facts)
**Daniel 9, talks about giving "skill and understanding"
**no women are mentioned, the messiah is compared to the abomination of desolation
(I prefer to think of the "AOD/abomination of desolation" as human dirth charge, this is cyclical and humanity spreads dead flesh around for sin pleasure, and makes a big deal about it) (but the gentiles are the most tied to this behavior, so its a reasonable answer)
******************
"nathan, david's son is described like a gentile? he is in lukes genealogy, and lukes genealogy has no women mentioned in it"
(there are people that believe, god represented lukes genealogy with his "declarative will, which more dominate and pictured by the old testament"..............and matthew's genealogy as a picture of god's "permissive will, which is not dominate and a description of the new testament, which is largely a privilege in terms of a sign or a vision)
(we are trying to say that, this issue of the gentiles supporting the genocide in jerusalem is the greater sin, greater then the fornication of the nations with the jews, in relation to jerusalem and genocide pleasure with palenstine, iraq, iran, and the middle east in general)
(if no women are mentioned in lukes genealogy, then jewish people should not be occupying jerusalem, this language is doubled when we see matthew's genealogy and solomon's wife that is mentioned tied to ephraim/jewish people............since matthew's genealogy is the "disappointment of joseph the blessing and joseph is specifically not mentioned in the parallel accounts of lukes genealogy)
"Abomination of Desolation = Gentiles Trampling Jerusalem"
how about
"Abomination of Desolation = Gentiles Supporting Jerusalem"
(these statements below are facts)
**Daniel 9, talks about giving "skill and understanding"
**no women are mentioned, the messiah is compared to the abomination of desolation
(I prefer to think of the "AOD/abomination of desolation" as human dirth charge, this is cyclical and humanity spreads dead flesh around for sin pleasure, and makes a big deal about it) (but the gentiles are the most tied to this behavior, so its a reasonable answer)
******************
"nathan, david's son is described like a gentile? he is in lukes genealogy, and lukes genealogy has no women mentioned in it"
(there are people that believe, god represented lukes genealogy with his "declarative will, which more dominate and pictured by the old testament"..............and matthew's genealogy as a picture of god's "permissive will, which is not dominate and a description of the new testament, which is largely a privilege in terms of a sign or a vision)
(we are trying to say that, this issue of the gentiles supporting the genocide in jerusalem is the greater sin, greater then the fornication of the nations with the jews, in relation to jerusalem and genocide pleasure with palenstine, iraq, iran, and the middle east in general)
(if no women are mentioned in lukes genealogy, then jewish people should not be occupying jerusalem, this language is doubled when we see matthew's genealogy and solomon's wife that is mentioned tied to ephraim/jewish people............since matthew's genealogy is the "disappointment of joseph the blessing and joseph is specifically not mentioned in the parallel accounts of lukes genealogy)
Last edited:
It is odd with all the Messianic prophecies including Daniel 9, the knowledge of the Lord, His promise to come and make a New Covenenant with them, that when He shows up, even His sheep interpret this covenant as being signed instead by the Antichrist in the future. You interpret that prophecy differently and that is the deception and a stumbling block.
Either Daniel 9:24-27 was fulfilled or the Gap Theory is true. I don't think you will be convinced otherwise until the GT progresses and you begin to see things differently.
They have been talking about building another temple for decades. They have even discovered that the Mosque is not where the Temple was - so what is the hold up?
No, even in modern times, we count part of a day or a week or a year as
one. How many weeks per year did you work? 46? 48? 50? Were tjey complete weeks or just 5 day weeks. How long were thise days, 24 hours? No. Am I making that up.
Is that garbage. Be careful, you don't want me as your enemy.
Maybe we all should examine yoir fruit? Kindness, gentleness, goodness ...? Now you may be a little frustrated because I am challenging you. Self-control ks needed. Spare me the insults. Frankly, you are being disrespectful.
Yes, the only a remnant (His sheep) heard His call and answered, the rest were blinded.
I need to prove to you that the Gentiles are part of the New Covenant? Really? Lol
WHAT?
I never said the New Covenant was for Jews only. I think you are becoming confused. My posts are straight forward, much easier then scripture to understand.
God chose a nation, through whom the Messiah would come and bless the world.
The NEW COVENANT IS FOR ALL!
HIS DEATH FINISHED THE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM. Are you
really teaching people? There was an earthquake and the veil in the Temple was torn. Any more sacrifices beyond that point were null and void. Another memo you missed! Wow
Btw, you mentioned Josephus.
Here is a statement concerning Daniel's prophecy:
[The Antiquities of the Jews, 10.276
Flavius Josephus translated by William Whiston
« J. AJ 10.275 | J. AJ 10.276 | J. AJ 10.277 | About This Work »
276And indeed it so came to pass, that our nation suffered these things under Antiochus Epiphanes, according to Daniel’s vision, and what he wrote many years before they came to pass. In the very same manner Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them.]
Last edited:
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I am glad you wrote error alert for you rpassage.
Here is the New Covenant in total. Please show me where it includes Gentiles:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
This passage is THE Ne Covenant! show me gentiles anywhere.
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 5,261
- 938
- 113
- 82
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
You fail to understand who the House of Israel is, after Jesus came to save them. Matthew 15:24
They are the Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language. ALL descendants of Abraham by faith, Galatians 3:26-29
Any ideas that the Jewish people are still God's chosen people, is an error and conflicts with the whole NT Message.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Now you know that's not true, and goes against what Paul taught in Romans 11 about the future when God will remove the blindness He put upon the unbelieving Jews. And also showed there that they still are... God's chosen, for the gifts of calling are without repentance he said.
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe ... ?
Wow, three brothers in Christ disagree with a basic doctrine:
Ronald Nolette, Keraz and Davy.
All the scriptures presented are true and harmonize, so what is missing?
There must be a common denominator?
A New Covenant was promised to the house of Israel. But at that time they were not told that branches would be broken off so that the Gentiles could be grafted into the VINE. And the promise remains for Israel, because it hasn't fully been fulfilled.
The Church did not replace Israel and Rom. 11 proves that their blindness will be removed and they will be grafted back into the VINE.
Scripture supports scripture.
I'd like to add another harmonious scripture to those:
Gen.18:22
"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
Wow, three brothers in Christ disagree with a basic doctrine:
Ronald Nolette, Keraz and Davy.
All the scriptures presented are true and harmonize, so what is missing?
There must be a common denominator?
A New Covenant was promised to the house of Israel. But at that time they were not told that branches would be broken off so that the Gentiles could be grafted into the VINE. And the promise remains for Israel, because it hasn't fully been fulfilled.
The Church did not replace Israel and Rom. 11 proves that their blindness will be removed and they will be grafted back into the VINE.
Scripture supports scripture.
I'd like to add another harmonious scripture to those:
Gen.18:22
"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
Last edited:
Keraz
Well-Known Member
- Jun 20, 2018
- 5,261
- 938
- 113
- 82
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- New Zealand
It seems that people here are unable to see the difference between Israel and Judah.
The Jews are, or were a part of Israel, but the main body of Israel are now as many as the sands of the sea and are mainly the Christian peoples.
There is no scripture which says the Jews will receive a general redemption. Many prophesies tell of their virtual demise and only a remnant will survive.
Romans 11:29 does not specify the Jews. They are called God's enemies in v28. It applies to people who accept His gifts and calling.
They are not called God's enemies. Read it correctly and don't distort it!
"Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers." >>> They were/are enemies to Christians - for our sake, but loved by God.
The Church is not Israel.
There is a clear distinction in Romans 11 between Israel and the Gentiles.
“ I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.” >>> Paul distinguishes himself, of Abraham’s seed, and Israelite, of the tribe of Benjamin. I cannot claim that. That is a blood connection. I am part of the spiritual seed.
“God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” >>> Israelites
“ For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.” >>> Israel was the firstfruits, the lump.
“You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” >>> Israelites were broken off so Gentiles can be grafted it.
“ For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. “ >>>There it is! Are you getting the distinction?
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” >>> A Covenant with them. That will soon be fulfilled!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
The passage is quoted by the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews, the theme of which is the obsolesence of the Old Covenant and the excellence of the New Covenant, one of the features of the latter being the inclusion of Gentile believers.
Heb 7:22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 12:22-24 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, (23) to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, (24) to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Similar threads
