A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Wrangler]

God does not need blood (sacrifice) to forgive.

It'a amazing some of the things one may read on CyB.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God does not need blood (sacrifice) to forgive.

He doesn't?

then why all the dead animals in the OT. and why did God die on the cross?

 

[quietthinker]

He doesn't?

then why all the dead animals in the OT. and why did God die on the cross?

Jesus died because we murdered him or do you think God was in cahoots with Satan and evil men arranging his murder?

The dead animals were largely because people thought God wanted blood, the more the merrier. They copied the ideas the pagan nations around them had.

When it came to the Sanctuary, it was to show what we would do with an innocent victim ie, kill him.

Don't you find it strange that after all those millions of animals killed the Jews didn't join the dots when it came to Jesus?

 

[quietthinker]

You have ignored all the references ,even the one you provided. You must admit this doesn't bode well for you.

You have made up your mind F2F and are no longer in my view interested in any angle but your own. This becomes evident by where your focus is. Any scriptures I address will be dismissed if it doesn't suit your paradigm so I don't bother.

 

[face2face]

You have made up your mind F2F and are no longer in my view interested in any angle but your own. This becomes evident by where your focus is. Any scriptures I address will be dismissed if it doesn't suit your paradigm so I don't bother.

I understand you didn't wish to handle any of the responses, but if you had to choose, which one was most compelling for you? Made you feel uneasy about your own beliefs? Mind you, what I have shared is literally on the tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding the At-One-Ment and for sure it’s the most thorough way to know and understand the One True God. I can only encourage you to read and study the book of Romans - it’s the Power of God unto Salvation!

Which verse, or verses caused you to inwardly question your belief? I'm guessing you must say none - but I detect a hint of integrity about you that I didn't see in our earlier discussions.

F2F

 

[face2face]

He doesn't?

then why all the dead animals in the OT. and why did God die on the cross?

It was an interesting exchange, one I will cherish for a long time to come...I dont often think about these interactions that way. I had the same experience with St.Steven, over and over, in fact it actually got a little weird and uncomfortable for him so much so I think I am now blocked, Wrangler and Aunty Jane as well. I wonder if there is a mechanism in the forum that if you get so many blocks you instantly locked out LOL.

To hold such a belief would be like Judas walking out the door "and it was night" - he took bread...but never the cup (blood). I guess for some they come so close to the offering of God but can't bring themselves to enter.

Sad really....the fullness of joy experienced in the fellowship with God and Christ is incredible - life changing.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

I understand you didn't wish to handle any of the responses, but if you had to choose, which one was most compelling for you? Made you feel uneasy about your own beliefs? Mind you, what I have shared is literally on the tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding the At-One-Ment and for sure it’s the most thorough way to know and understand the One True God. I can only encourage you to read and study the book of Romans - it’s the Power of God unto Salvation!

Which verse, or verses caused you to inwardly question your belief? I'm guessing you must say none - but I detect a hint of integrity about you that I didn't see in our earlier discussions.

F2F

I see you live in your own world of second guessing and judgements F2F. It does nothing for me. Neither do I feel motivated to make enquiry from you or engage you in debate as is my case with many who post here. Why is that you might ask? It's because you have a barrow to push which I do not see aligns itself with the purposes of God as revealed in Jesus.

Weaponising scripture is not what it was given to us for. It is given to make us wise unto Salvation by seeing God's character in the face of Jesus. It is given that we might see a God who inspires us with wonder. It is not given to outwit each other with clever and convoluted debates.

The many representations here claiming greater insight are tested by observing their emphasis. Those who know Jesus have his agenda at heart. Those who don't make lots of words in an attempt to glorify themselves.

 

[face2face]

I see you live in your own world of second guessing and judgements F2F. It does nothing for me. Neither do I feel motivated to make enquiry from you or engage you in debate as is my case with many who post here. Why is that you might ask? It's because you have a barrow to push which I do not see aligns itself with the purposes of God as revealed in Jesus.

Weaponising scripture is not what it was given to us for. It is given to make us wise unto Salvation by seeing God's character in the face of Jesus. It is given that we might see a God who inspires us with wonder. It is not given to outwit each other with clever and convoluted debates.

The many representations here claiming greater insight are tested by observing their emphasis. Those who know Jesus have his agenda at heart. Those who don't make lots of words in an attempt to glorify themselves.

An observation from your comments is you have used words like "killer" and "weaponize", which is rather aggressive language considering the Bible quotes provided are very clear.

I'm also wondering if you are sufficiently self aware to perceive how evasive your remarks have been throughout our chat. Rather than speaking to the text you prefer to use phrases like "glorify themselves", "outwit" etc...as though you are "easily" threatened. Read over your responses and tell me are you easily threatened by sound exposition?

I've enjoyed the discussion, and the opportunity to look up those Bible verses is always good to reconfirm already held convictions.

Enjoy your day
F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus died because we murdered him or do you think God was in cahoots with Satan and evil men arranging his murder?

You all know I have no time for a belief in a fallen rebel angel (such a lie!) but the above question is valid and has been answered in previous posts.

The dead animals were largely because people thought God wanted blood, the more the merrier. They copied the ideas the pagan nations around them had.

There is a level of ignorance in that comment which is hardly worth responding to really. God delivered the order of sacrifices to Moses end of story.

When it came to the Sanctuary, it was to show what we would do with an innocent victim ie, kill him.

Don't you find it strange that after all those millions of animals killed the Jews didn't join the dots when it came to Jesus?

You mean they didn't allow the School Master to lead them to "the" sacrifice of God? It was because of their ignorance and unwillingness to heed the lessons being taught from the Law (& Christ) in the same way you reject the blood of Christ - no different Quiet - you are doing precisely what the Jews did....rebel against God's provision.

As Paul wrote for "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Heb. 10:4). God knew this when He instituted animal sacrifices that they were weak and unprofitable, and made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:18,19). Only one sacrifice could make perfect and its the one you reject.

For those who accept Romans 5:9 and its principles you have life.

8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. Ro 5:8–9.

F2F

 

[Jack]

For f2f . . . examine your presuppostions which affect how you limit the meanings of passages into things which they do not say.

Or simply deal with the fact that Matthew gives us an account that refutes your view.

You've yet to show me something that leads me to believe Matthew wasn't writing in the simple narrative as it appears. You've said his words are accurate, yet you don't seem to believe what he said. His words speak of the devil, called Satan, as a particular being, in the same way he wrote of the others who were there, namely Jesus and angels. You believe Jesus was there. You believe angels were there. But you don't believe Satan was there.

Was Matthew truly being so misleading as you would have us to think? Or was he telling us things that are true?

Much love!

Satan has convinced face2face that he doesn't exist, in spite of nearly 100 Scriptures that say Satan exists and attacks the Bible just like face2face does!

 

[face2face]

Satan has convinced face2face that he doesn't exist, in spite of nearly 100 Scriptures that say Satan exists and attacks the Bible just like face2face does!

Jack, Marks has a lot of work to do on all the open posts he is yet to reply to. You would do well to help him. F2F

 

[Jack]

Jack, Marks has a lot of work to do on all the open posts he is yet to reply to. You would do well to help him. F2F

Why are you always evasive? God said Satan is real. You say Satan never existed. God says the everlasting fire is real. You say it isn't. Who should we believe, you or God? You're the one who needs help.

 

[face2face]

Why are you always evasive? God said Satan is real. You say Satan never existed. God says the everlasting fire is real. You say it isn't. Who should we believe, you or God? You're the one who needs help.

I'm the last man standing in this debate...you know that Jack, you don't have the skill set to put up a defense, others have tried and walked. We have dealt with your lazy approach to the text...what more can you or I do? The OT is silent on this so called rebel angel...do you have any suggestions?

 

[face2face]

@Jack lets use your approach then.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil

"destroy him that is the Devil"

Your literal reading of that verse has the Devil destroyed so I am good to move on yes?

F23

 

[Jack]

I'm the last man standing in this debate...you know that Jack, you don't have the skill set to put up a defense, others have tried and walked. We have dealt with your lazy approach to the text...what more can you or I do? The OT is silent on this so called rebel angel...do you have any suggestions?

It's your word against God's Word. Satan is real. The everlasting fire that Jesus warned you about is real.

 

[Jack]

@Jack lets use your approach then.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil

"destroy him that is the Devil"

Your literal reading of that verse has the Devil destroyed so I am good to move on yes?

F23

Jesus gave us the power to fight the Devil. You forfeited that power.

Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 

[face2face]

Jesus gave us the power to fight the Devil. You forfeited that power.

Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

It reads him who has the power has been destroyed through the death of Jesus. That's what it states Jack

 

[face2face]

Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Where do I find this literal armor Jack? Amazon?
What are the wiles of the devil?
Who were the rulers Paul was referring to in his day who were false accusers?
F2F

 

[Jack]

It reads him who has the power has been destroyed through the death of Jesus. That's what it states Jack

Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

You have no armor.

James 4
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

And you don't know how. That's why Satan has deceived you.

1 Peter 5
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

 

[face2face]

Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

You have no armor.

James 4
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

And you don't know how. That's why Satan has deceived you.

1 Peter 5
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

So what type of armor do you have to stop this rampaging Lion?