A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Wrangler]

and who made manifest the name of GOD .

YHWH did a pretty good job manifesting his own name in delivering the 10 plagues to Egypt and freeing the Hebrews.

Then there were all the prophets.

Then there’s the billions of believers who witness as does the faithful witness. Rev 1:5.

There is not one who. Thanks for asking.

 

[amigo de christo]

YHWH did a pretty good job manifesting his own name in delivering the 10 plagues to Egypt and freeing the Hebrews.

Then there were all the prophets.

Then there’s the billions of believers who witness as does the faithful witness. Rev 1:5.

There is not one who. Thanks for asking.

He said his name . IT WAS JESUS WHO MANIFEST that NAME .

 

[Wrangler]

He said his name . IT WAS JESUS WHO MANIFEST that NAME .

Best you stop asking questions if you mean them to be rhetorical.

You asked. I answered. Done.

 

[amigo de christo]

Best you stop asking questions if you mean them to be rhetorical.

You asked. I answered. Done.

and yet muhammed manifest the name of the dragon as did budda and all false religoins .
Exactly wrangler .
GOD , the prophets , the law and etc POINTED TO JESUS AS THE CHRIST .
THE DIRE and aboslute dire need to believe on HIM
this the religoins of satan DO NOT DO .
There is no difference as to who the father of them relgions is
Satans club , new age , mulsim and etc , are all of their father the devil
TIME we stop giving out false hope and lies to this people . TIME rather to point to CHRIST JESUS ALONE .
you are heavily infected and more so than i once believed , with this unifying force
that has come to have the relgions to unite and to find common ground . THIS force is cometh of anti christ .
DO not heed it any longer . LEt us rather preach the true gopsel .
The social inclusive gospel be of satan
as was and is the seeker friendly movment . THIS call for common ground and unity
COMETH OF THE DRAGON , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST .
TIS TIME folks BIBLE UP and fast too .

 

[Aunty Jane]

@marks @Wrangler @RedFan @Jay Ross @Aunty Jane

Something of value to take away from this discussion is a Bible principle which has been proven time and time again, both in the Word of God and in this forum.

Jesus did it here: To his disciples he declared: "beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself (Lk 24:27)

Stephen expounded here: Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. Acts 7:54

Phillip did it here: Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus Acts 8:35.

Three examples, 2 positive and 1 negative. (there are many more!)

If one can accurately expound truth in a forthright manner, how joyful is it to discover your audience has "one mind", and a willingness to receive and act upon the message being conveyed? Even more so, those who go away and search the Scripture to find if these things are so, and come back with joy in their hearts having received of the Lord?

However,

We have present, the disinterested, those who doubt and flee to what is known and comfortable! Some listen and are polite, but rather than attempting to undermine their reasoning, walk away, retreat as it were into the background having not given, or received. Others make a show of trying only to retreat into what is known.

Then, on the rarest occasions you have someone who like Phillip asked the question "and said, Do you understand?"

In other words "Have you intellectually perceived this message and applied it to your heart?"

In every sense of the Word our responsibility is to "understand", which is why when you ask this person a question from the Word, they "grasp the significance of what you are showing them, and they understand how knowledge must influence the entire purpose and way of life, that they might live by faith in accordance with God's will"

Whether its the disciples on the road to Emmaus, or the Ethiopian Eunuch, a thorough clear perception of the Truth is being sought and this person understands the value of such wisdom which is why Jesus, Stephen and Phillip all in one way, or another, ask "Have you understood what you are reading and re-reading?"

Endurance in teaching does not equate to having truth! Just because you can riposte doesn't mean you do so with truth. We all need to be able to ask questions and answer them openly and honestly, otherwise all of us fail the Inspired example. If we cannot do as those faithful have done before us, we have nothing, and are nothing.

The Eunech said "guide me"...he did not insist on his own interpretation of scripture, but was aware of his own limitations. I believe I have seen those limitations here today and I am not suggesting I am the one to guide (though willing on some subjects)!...true teachers of the Word are attested by the Word, contrary to the likes of the Pharisees whom Christ described using this same word as: "Blind leaders of the blind: (Mat. 15:14).

God (Yahweh) will bless those who manifest a correct attitude: "The meek will He guide in judgment, and the meek will He teach His
way" (Psa 25:9).

Apart from this attitude, individuals will never become truly wise in the ways of Yahweh.

F2F

I believe that we can all take something away from this post, regarding our attitude towards the word of God and the way we promote it.
Simply put, we cannot bully people into the truth, nor can we Bible bash them into it.....but we can defend our faith with a mature attitude (1 Pet 3:15) and our exchanges will stand as a testimony to whether or not we really imitate Jesus in our approach to people. After all, Jesus tells us at John 6:44, 65.....one inescapable truth...
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him” . . . . . “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father”.

We can plant and water....but it is God who makes the seed of truth grow. (1 Cor 3:6-7)

To be noted, Jesus was not sent to the incorrigible religious leaders of his day, but to the neglected “lost sheep” who, like the beggar in Jesus’ illustration, was just barely existing on the crumbs falling from the rich man’s table. Jesus came to feed those beggars and they are the ones who humbly accepted Jesus on his terms, seeing clearly the love, the compassion, and the justice with which Jesus was preaching his truth.....God’s truth. He appealed to the sinners and showed them the way to life, which was to change their lifestyle and become his follower....an example of which was Matthew, a despised tax collector, those who were notorious for collecting more that the tax demanded by the Roman government, lining their own pockets with money extorted from their own brothers. It is why tax collectors were often lumped in with harlots and sinners.
Matthew was apparently employed by a chief tax agent like Zacchaeus, who is also mentioned as one who repented and came to Christ...his conscience moving him to pay back more than he extorted. (Luke 19:1, 2, 8)

So our style of “preaching” is to be modelled after Christ......he never used browbeating tactics but expounded the truth to all who would listen.....the only ones who got a tongue lashing were the ones who were trying to steer the people in the wrong direction....subverting their faith with fear not love. Hammering the letter of the law, but failing to appreciate the spirit behind it, which resulted in a harsh and unloving legal approach that allowed for no mercy. Any wonder the lost sheep were without a shepherd.

We can state our case but leave it to the ones who have open ears and hearts to respond, as God will call them...we are just the vehicles through whom the message is preached. But satan has his messengers too, so because he is a deceiver, none of us should be so sure of our standing that we cannot entertain the thought that we personally may be falling short in our assignment.......as preachers, not judges. (1 Cor 10:12)

 

[The Learner]

all of that and then made their own Bible called the Queen James Bible to further enable them. Yes, it's been edited.


View attachment 45403

 

[The Learner]

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my GOD"!

Should we believe Aunty or Thomas whom Jesus taught in person?

 

[The Learner]

This is an important point actually because it is a planned ignorance and lack of knowledge past the infant stage, otherwise the ‘sheeples’ sitting in the pews might realize that most of what they hear is not the truth, only dressed up to look like it.

We see people here arguing, clearly out of their depth in the discussion, but hammering away at the old party line with insults instead of scripture, as if these things have not been examined under a microscope and found to be completely misunderstood or misinterpreted. A spiritual infant would not know the difference, but those who have bothered to study the Bible for themselves gain an insight that others never get to experience. They remain stuck at that level and never progress past it. There is no real excuse for ignorance these days when we are in an age with unprecedented access to knowledge about everything.

But even with all the knowledge in the world, it is the condition of our heart that will mean salvation at the end of the day…..unless knowledge is put to good use, and alters the way we think and behave, it is wasted. It is a means to an end…not an end in itself.

 

[The Learner]

 

[The Learner]

 

[Aunty Jane]

and yet muhammed manifest the name of the dragon as did budda and all false religoins .
Exactly wrangler .
GOD , the prophets , the law and etc POINTED TO JESUS AS THE CHRIST .
THE DIRE and aboslute dire need to believe on HIM
this the religoins of satan DO NOT DO .
There is no difference as to who the father of them relgions is
Satans club , new age , mulsim and etc , are all of their father the devil
TIME we stop giving out false hope and lies to this people . TIME rather to point to CHRIST JESUS ALONE .
you are heavily infected and more so than i once believed , with this unifying force
that has come to have the relgions to unite and to find common ground . THIS force is cometh of anti christ .
DO not heed it any longer . LEt us rather preach the true gopsel .
The social inclusive gospel be of satan
as was and is the seeker friendly movment . THIS call for common ground and unity
COMETH OF THE DRAGON , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST .
TIS TIME folks BIBLE UP and fast too .

I admire your zeal for the Bible, Amigo....and I agree with much of what you have said here.....but the fundamental truth of God’s word involves the very nature of Yahweh himself. How HE presented himself in the Scriptures.

Jesus said we must “know” the one he called “the only true God” AND “the one he sent”. This involves getting a firm grasp on who God is.....who Jesus is.....and understanding why their relationship is one of “Father and son”....a sonship that began before all other creation....he being the “firstborn of ALL creation”. (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14)
Also why this relationship in most instances (as stated in the Bible) rarely mentions the holy spirit as part of that relationship. (John 17:3; 1 Cor 8:5-6) The holy spirit is not a person, but the administration of God’s power in all its manifestations.

Unless we have a sound understanding of these things, there is nothing that we build on false reasoning that will stand......if the foundation is faulty, then given the judgment to come....everything built on that faulty foundation will collapse.....as the Bible says it must.
The judgment on the dragon is fast approaching and he is to be hurled into an abyss with his henchmen for 1000 years whilst God’s Kingdom sets about the task of repairing all that was damaged as a result of satan’s rebellion. (Rev 20:1-3) This will bring back all that we lost, and redeemed mankind will finally fulfill their destiny as their life will become what God first purposed for them.

Rev 21:2-4 will see its fulfilment....
“ I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

We long for the day......

 

[The Learner]

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Amen Thomas. Jesus is my God too!

John 20

Contemporary English Version

​

Jesus Is Alive​

(Matthew 28.1-10; Mark 16.1-8; Luke 24.1-12)​

20 On Sunday morning while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been rolled away from the entrance. 2 She ran to Simon Peter and to Jesus' favorite disciple and said, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb! We don't know where they have put him.”
3 Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 They ran side by side, until the other disciple ran faster than Peter and got there first. 5 He bent over and saw the strips of linen cloth lying inside the tomb, but he did not go in.
6 When Simon Peter got there, he went into the tomb and saw the strips of cloth. 7 He also saw the piece of cloth that had been used to cover Jesus' face. It was rolled up and in a place by itself. 8 The disciple who got there first then went into the tomb, and when he saw it, he believed. 9 At that time Peter and the other disciple did not know that the Scriptures said Jesus would rise to life. 10 So the two of them went back to the other disciples.

Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene​

(Mark 16.9-11)​

11 Mary Magdalene stood crying outside the tomb. She was still weeping, when she stooped down 12 and saw two angels inside. They were dressed in white and were sitting where Jesus' body had been. One was at the head and the other was at the foot. 13 The angels asked Mary, “Why are you crying?”
She answered, “They have taken away my Lord's body! I don't know where they have put him.”
14 As soon as Mary said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there. But she did not know who he was. 15 Jesus asked her, “Why are you crying? Who are you looking for?”
She thought he was the gardener and said, “Sir, if you have taken his body away, please tell me, so I can go and get him.”
16 Then Jesus said to her, “Mary!”
She turned and said to him, “Rabboni.” The Aramaic word “Rabboni” means “Teacher.”
17 Jesus told her, “Don't hold on to me! I have not yet gone to the Father. But tell my disciples I am going to the one who is my Father and my God, as well as your Father and your God.” 18 Mary Magdalene then went and told the disciples she had seen the Lord. She also told them what he had said to her.

Jesus Appears to His Disciples​

(Matthew 28.16-20; Mark 16.14-18; Luke 24.36-49)​

19 The disciples were afraid of the Jewish leaders, and on the evening of that same Sunday they locked themselves in a room. Suddenly, Jesus appeared in the middle of the group. He greeted them 20 and showed them his hands and his side. When the disciples saw the Lord, they became very happy.
21 After Jesus had greeted them again, he said, “I am sending you, just as the Father has sent me.” 22 Then he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone's sins, they will be forgiven. But if you don't forgive their sins, they will not be forgiven.”

Jesus and Thomas​

24 Although Thomas the Twin was one of the twelve disciples, he wasn't with the others when Jesus appeared to them. 25 So they told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But Thomas said, “First, I must see the nail scars in his hands and touch them with my finger. I must put my hand where the spear went into his side. I won't believe unless I do this!”
26 A week later the disciples were together again. This time, Thomas was with them. Jesus came in while the doors were still locked and stood in the middle of the group. He greeted his disciples 27 and said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at my hands! Put your hand into my side. Stop doubting and have faith!”
28 Thomas replied, “You are my Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said, “Thomas, do you have faith because you have seen me? The people who have faith in me without seeing me are the ones who are really blessed!”

Why John Wrote His Book​

30 Jesus worked many other miracles[a] for his disciples, and not all of them are written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you will put your faith in Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God. If you have faith in[b] him, you will have true life.

Footnotes​

1. 20.30 miracles: See the note at 2.11.
2. 20.31 put your faith in … have faith in: Some manuscripts have “keep on having faith in … keep on having faith in.”

John 19

 

[The Learner]

Wow you attached some fanciful notions in that statement! Your Satan isn't even mentioned in the Old Testament.

1. 1 Chronicles 21:1
   And Satanstood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Job 1:6
   Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satancame also among them.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Job 1:7
   And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satananswered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Job 1:8
   And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Job 1:9
   Then Satananswered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Job 1:12
   And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satanwent forth from the presence of the Lord.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Job 2:1
   Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satancame also among them to present himself before the Lord.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. Job 2:2
   And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satananswered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
9. Job 2:3
   And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
10. Job 2:4
    And Satananswered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
11. Job 2:6
    And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
12. Job 2:7
    So went Satanforth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
13. Psalm 109:6
    Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satanstand at his right hand.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
14. Zechariah 3:1
    And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satanstanding at his right hand to resist him.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
15. Zechariah 3:2
    And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

Wow you attached some fanciful notions in that statement! Your Satan isn't even mentioned in the Old Testament.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[The Learner]

@marks
@Jack
@Wrangler

If you were totally honest with the text, do you believe Thomas' confession is an acknowledgment that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead, rather than a declaration that Jesus is "God the Son"?

And if we were in doubt of this, do you believe Thomas, a Jew, used a mode of expression common to the Old Testament in which accredited representatives of God are referred to as "God".

Angels are called "God" in the following passages: Gen 16:7; Genesis 13; 22:8, 11, 15, 16; Exodus. 23:20, 21.

Moses is referred to as a "god" to Pharaoh in Exod 7:1, "god" is translated from the Heb. "elohim"

Put that to one side for the moment.

What about the context? Earlier in chapter 20, Jesus told Mary, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." John 20:17.

Can you see the problem here?

Since Jesus was to ascend to his God, then clearly he was not himself "Very God"

The confusion is not in Christ's teaching or in the revelation of God through His Word, its what we attach to that Word which is where error is found. In no way can a Trinitarian hang all the formulated dogma off Thomas' words, to do so is to change the Word of God into a lie.

F2F

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical%20Basis%20Trinity%20Bowman.pdf

 

[The Learner]

3 possibilities to the nature of the adversary, 2 of which have more Scriptural evidence than the 1st which comes to your mind.
One day you will see the OT is silent on a rebel angel!
It's a figment of the imagination.

BTW your rebel angel appears in 3 chapters in Job, has no power of his own and disappears (poof!).

It is comical what people do with that book.

F2F

Are you Christadelphian?

 

[The Learner]

Christadelphians

Bible Basics Study 6.2 - The Devil and Satan

The Truth about the Devil - Christadelphians

The Truth about the Devil More than 100 years ago these lines were written (by an unknown author) to accompany a drawing of “His Satanic Majesty”: “This is he, with horns and hoof, The parsons call the devil; They tell us he lives in a sultry place Where ghosts and imps all revel. They say

bibletruth.net.au

The Origins of the Christadelphian view of the devil.

This paper contains a comprehensive, and wide ranging analysis of the true origins of the 'internal devil' theory - which the Christadelphians eventually came to adopt as a fixed dogma in 1864. Reasons are adduced as to why the 'internal

www.academia.edu

Christadelphianism (Briefly Tested by Scripture)

Christadelphian History, Beliefs & Practices | Study.com

Discover the Christadelphian faith and understand its origins and history. Learn about important Christadelphian beliefs and review their different...

study.com

What is Christadelphianism, and what do Christadelphians believe? | GotQuestions.org

What is Christadelphianism, and what do Christadelphians believe? What are the core beliefs of Christadelphianism? Who was the founder of Christadelphianism?

www.gotquestions.org

What Do Christadelphians Believe and Practice?

Christadelphian beliefs depart from orthodox Christian doctrine in several areas. Learn the group's unique teachings about Jesus and more.

www.learnreligions.com

Bible Basics Study 6.2 - The Devil and Satan

 

[The Learner]

Google christadelphian view of Jesus not God

 

[marks]

Christadelphians

Thank you! I've learned some new things today!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus said we must “know” the one he called “the only true God” AND “the one he sent”. This involves getting a firm grasp on who God is.....who Jesus is.....and understanding why their relationship is one of “Father and son”....a sonship that began before all other creation....he being the “firstborn of ALL creation”. (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14)
Also why this relationship in most instances (as stated in the Bible) rarely mentions the holy spirit as part of that relationship. (John 17:3; 1 Cor 8:5-6)

I look forward to the analysis of this from those who aren’t JW.

John 20

Contemporary English Version

I love the CEV translation. But I’m not sure why you posted the chapter?