A Simple Question To The Forum About Getting Into The Kingdom Of God.

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Rach1370

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Paul called the Galatians "bewitched", so there is clearly Satanic powers involved here. Someone would have to be "bewitched" to desire to be under THE LAW of Moses rather than the grace and Truth of the New Covenant that Jesus paid for with His precious Blood.

Amen! :)
 

jiggyfly

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A simple question to the forum about getting into the Kingdom of God

Then Jesus called for the children and said to the disciples, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I assure you, anyone who doesn't have their kind of faith will never get into the Kingdom of God."




And He said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
smile.gif
 

Thankful 1

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Jesus told us very clearly what it takes to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with Him.



(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

(Matthew 25:31-46)"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 

Duckybill

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Then Jesus called for the children and said to the disciples, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I assure you, anyone who doesn't have their kind of faith will never get into the Kingdom of God."

And He said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
smile.gif
Never??? But Jiggy you said everyone is going to make it.
 

Duckybill

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No, not any way but it is God's way through Christ recorded all through the scriptures, I find it revealing that everyone being reconciled to Father is so upsetting to you Ducky.
cool.gif


You might try re- reading it and this time watch for the word "unless".
smile.gif
Jiggy, you're gonna be held accountable for everyone who goes to Hell who believed you. Think about it.
 

jiggyfly

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Jiggy, you're gonna be held accountable for everyone who goes to Hell who believed you. Think about it.

I'm not worried about what you think is going to happen, I believe God.
tongue.gif


And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we are like Christ here in this world. Such love has no fear because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment, and this shows that his love has not been perfected in us. 1John 4:17&18
 

Eccl.12:13

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To all those following this lesson here is something to think about....and please.....it's not hard to figure out. God gave us all common sense....and that is all it takes.

Paul's job, just as all of ours, is to tell people about the kingdom of God and what it takes to enter it. When this question was asked of the guy that is going to judge ALL those that desire entrance into God's kingdom, this is what He said;


Matt. 19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now if the Lord says this is what is needed for eternal life do we really have to go any further? Well....we shouldn't.....BUT there are some that will try to say we are not 'obligated' to keep God's laws, inspite of the direct answer the Lord just gave us.

These same people continue to quote scriptures that may appear to suggest that we really are not 'obligated' to keep God's laws. Here are just a few of them;

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid"
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law"
"
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Now on the surface, it really does appear that man is not obligated to keep God's laws!

Now let's throw just a hint of common sense in the mix. Does that make sense? Does it make sense that God does not require man to obey ANYTHING? Does it make sense that we can just continue to sin and sin and sin until our death and God will just continue to forgive, and forgive and forgive, simply because we have faith in Him?

Well before you answer...let's look at what was said by the same person that said all of those quotes above....


1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Sounds like Paul is advising people not to sin. And what is God's definition of sin? Let's read it....

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let's prove this by reading what Paul said next....

"[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

So, reguardless of what anybody tries to tell you, Paul IS telling people NOT to break God's laws!

Now where did Paul receive such information? How did he know who to include? Where did he obtain this list of people? From the laws of God, which he found written in the OT!

Let's read more of what Paul had to say...

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Sounds like yet another commandment of God Paul is saying to keep! Let's continue....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ok readers....wait one second!…… How can we SIN (break God’s laws) if there are no laws to keep?


Here is more from Paul….


Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now let's carefully look at this scripture.

Sin is the breaking of God's laws..... and Paul says

"UNTIL the law...the breaking of the law was still in the world"! Until WHAT law? So that means there was a law that was ADDED (Hint for next lesson!) to go along with the others laws that were being broken.

Then Paul says sin is not 'imputed' or 'done away with' when there is no law? So if sin, the breaking of God's laws, is NOT done away with when there is no law, can only mean, Paul is speaking of ANOTHER set of laws that have been done away with.

The ONLY way any of this can make sense lies in the FACT that Paul speaks of more than one law. Paul is NOT always referring to ALL 613 laws in his writings.

Think about is readers...how can Paul say "Flee fornication", "...if we sin wilfully...", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"......

......and at the same time say,

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.", "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law", and finally "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

.....unless he were speaking about TWO different sets of laws?



This is my answer to the questions asked;

Paul speaks of TWO different laws in his writings;

There is the one set of laws that was against man, a set of laws that God never liked but allowed, a set of laws that was to keep those that believed in God with hope and faith, a set of laws that was only to be around for a little while.

Then Paul speaks of another set of laws;

This is the set of laws where he found the following....."What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.", "Flee fornication", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,".

Speaking of TWO sets of laws is how this works. How else can it?

All of this will be proven in an upcoming lesson.

So for now....let's leave the law behind for awhile and move on to other topics in God's word.





.
 

Duckybill

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I'm not worried about what you think is going to happen, I believe God.
tongue.gif
Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [sup]14 [/sup]Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

So then Jiggy, how many is a FEW?

And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we are like Christ here in this world. Such love has no fear because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment, and this shows that his love has not been perfected in us. 1John 4:17&18
Jesus wasn't going around telling everyone they would be saved. He said He will reject MANY religious people.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[sup]21 [/sup]"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [sup]22 [/sup]Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' [sup]23 [/sup]And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Like I said, if I'm wrong I can't lose. But you can. MANY religious folks will spend eternity in Hell. We can't say we weren't warned can we?
 

Duckybill

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To all those following this lesson here is something to think about....and please.....it's not hard to figure out. God gave us all common sense....and that is all it takes.

Paul's job, just as all of ours, is to tell people about the kingdom of God and what it takes to enter it. When this question was asked of the guy that is going to judge ALL those that desire entrance into God's kingdom, this is what He said;


Matt. 19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now if the Lord says this is what is needed for eternal life do we really have to go any further? Well....we shouldn't.....BUT there are some that will try to say we are not 'obligated' to keep God's laws, inspite of the direct answer the Lord just gave us.

These same people continue to quote scriptures that may appear to suggest that we really are not 'obligated' to keep God's laws. Here are just a few of them;

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid"
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law"
"
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Now on the surface, it really does appear that man is not obligated to keep God's laws!

Now let's throw just a hint of common sense in the mix. Does that make sense? Does it make sense that God does not require man to obey ANYTHING? Does it make sense that we can just continue to sin and sin and sin until our death and God will just continue to forgive, and forgive and forgive, simply because we have faith in Him?

Well before you answer...let's look at what was said by the same person that said all of those quotes above....


1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Sounds like Paul is advising people not to sin. And what is God's definition of sin? Let's read it....

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let's prove this by reading what Paul said next....

"[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

So, reguardless of what anybody tries to tell you, Paul IS telling people NOT to break God's laws!

Now where did Paul receive such information? How did he know who to include? Where did he obtain this list of people? From the laws of God, which he found written in the OT!

Let's read more of what Paul had to say...

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Sounds like yet another commandment of God Paul is saying to keep! Let's continue....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ok readers....wait one second!…… How can we SIN (break God’s laws) if there are no laws to keep?


Here is more from Paul….


Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now let's carefully look at this scripture.

Sin is the breaking of God's laws..... and Paul says

"UNTIL the law...the breaking of the law was still in the world"! Until WHAT law? So that means there was a law that was ADDED (Hint for next lesson!) to go along with the others laws that were being broken.

Then Paul says sin is not 'imputed' or 'done away with' when there is no law? So if sin, the breaking of God's laws, is NOT done away with when there is no law, can only mean, Paul is speaking of ANOTHER set of laws that have been done away with.

The ONLY way any of this can make sense lies in the FACT that Paul speaks of more than one law. Paul is NOT always referring to ALL 613 laws in his writings.

Think about is readers...how can Paul say "Flee fornication", "...if we sin wilfully...", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"......

......and at the same time say,

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.", "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law", and finally "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

.....unless he were speaking about TWO different sets of laws?



This is my answer to the questions asked;

Paul speaks of TWO different laws in his writings;

There is the one set of laws that was against man, a set of laws that God never liked but allowed, a set of laws that was to keep those that believed in God with hope and faith, a set of laws that was only to be around for a little while.

Then Paul speaks of another set of laws;

This is the set of laws where he found the following....."What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.", "Flee fornication", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,".

Speaking of TWO sets of laws is how this works. How else can it?

All of this will be proven in an upcoming lesson.

So for now....let's leave the law behind for awhile and move on to other topics in God's word.
Give it a rest Eccl. I don't think anyone here is going to execute sinners as THE LAW commands. Not even you.
 

Vengle53

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Give it a rest Eccl. I don't think anyone here is going to execute sinners as THE LAW commands. Not even you.


I think you misundertand what ECC said, Ducky. This point is pivotal to ECC's thought, "This is my answer to the questions asked; Paul speaks of TWO different laws in his writings; There is the one set of laws that was against man, a set of laws that God never liked but allowed, a set of laws that was to keep those that believed in God with hope and faith, a set of laws that was only to be around for a little while." [End ECC's quote]

As you say Ducky it is just common sense to know that God's Law is eternal and did not just start with the writing of the Mosaic Law. The Ten Commandments where a summation of that eternal Law of God. And they were written in stone comparable to men's hearts of stone. This highlighted that the things added past the giving of those Ten Commandmants were written as an addendum to that eternal Law. The Mosaic Law is not that eternal Law but an addon to expose, condemn, and punish sin, thus teaching man that they can not obtain righteousness depending on the power of their flesh. Thus that addon acted only as a tutor to lead them and us to Christ Jesus who is to us the Word of God, The Law of God personified. In him and only in him do the promise of God become "yes".

I am not yet sure what ECC understands of the subject beyond post #172, but the statement about there being two laws leads me to believe that ECC has received at least that much understanding of it, whether ECC fully realizes it yet or not. What ECC said in post #172 is accurate, however, it could yet be that ECC does know where the addon written against the flesh begins and so cannot see that the entire handwritten portion of the Mosaic Law beyond the Ten Commanments was it. We will see. You may be right that ECC is rationalizing to try to save part of the Law against the flesh that was taken out of the way. But lets wait until we see where ECC finally takes this, instead of assuming.

God's eternal Law is summed up by the principles of love and need not concern itself with punishment. But the Mosaic Law was written as an addon because angels and men violated God's perfect Law of Love. And make no mistake about it Ducky, the angels are watching very closely to see how the matter is finally resolved among we who are flesh.
 

Duckybill

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With all due respect WIG, I find it near impossible to take Eccl seriously about anything. Perhaps you missed his comments that God is going to destroy all who eat pork chops, and that Jesus gave us the option to execute adulterers and homosexuals?
 

Vengle53

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With all due respect WIG, I find it near impossible to take Eccl seriously about anything. Perhaps you missed his comments that God is going to destroy all who eat pork chops, and that Jesus gave us the option to execute adulterers and homosexuals?


No, I did see his comment but I was hoping he had a spiritual epiphany. LOL.

At the same time, isn't it amazing how correctly he was able to state that last comment if one reads nothing else into it! That to me evidences that the Holy Spirit is working on him and nudging him ever so slowly the right direction, limited only by his own stubbornness. We all have to resist that same stubbornness in ourselves. So it is nothing abnormal but actually common to we in this imperfect flesh.

That is why I made it a point to specify that the Ten Commandments were given written in stone like the stone hearts of sinful mankind. Comparatively, the scriptures also tell us that God would write his Law into the stone-like hearts of man. And since it was only the Ten Commandments that were written in stone and which are an encapsulation of God's eternal Law, it stands to reason that the rest of the Mosaic Law which was not written into stone by God is not what God is writing to men's hearts.

As this comparison continues on in the scriptures we are told that the Word of God is alive and exerts power. As God writes his Law of love into man's heart it therefore begins to change the man's heart. Then, as we heard God promise that he would take away their hearts of stone and give them a heart of flesh, it begins to happen.

Therefore we can afford to be very patience with others as we see that all we do is sow seeds of truth and do a bit of watering but God is the one that is making it grow. Paul elaborated that, I think it was in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.

It is actually fascinating once we become aware of this process that we can look around and see it happening in others, even as it did for our self.

That wisdom of our Father is truly something to rejoice about. It becomes part of the things unseen that we are to keep our eyes fixed upon lest we forget the appearance of our own face in the mirror of his word.

I did not elaborate with many scripture citations thus far here as I want these words of truth to flex your recall of those scriptures for your self. I believe you already are familiar with them and it will be more powerful for me to trust in and merely supplement the work of the Holy Spirit in you.

Paul describes the eternal Law of God's love for us in many places but I think most detailed at 1 Corinthians chapter 13.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 "Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things."

The Mosaic Law given through Moses was written by the hand of flesh to govern the flesh. Not so the Ten Commandments which were first written by God's finger and later shown to be required for man to copy when Moses had to remake the tablets of stone.

Whenever Paul said, as he did many times, "love is the law's fulfillment", we should think of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 as how Paul defines that love.

The Mosaic Law written by fleshly hands (even though guided by God's Spirit) to the flesh of men was not written to "beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things". It was written not to bear the sin of men but to expose that sin and thus make it appear exceedingly sinful. And it was written to punish that sin and any who would refuse to repent it. Again, I think you know where the scriptures are that tell us all of this.

But that is why the entire Law given through Moses with the exception of the Ten Commandments was nailed with Christ Jesus in order to free us from the penalty it demanded upon us. And when we again try to enliven any small part of it we enliven the penalty also that it called for.

It is one thing to get circumcised out of love's effort to not stumble another person from listening to us, as Paul did Timothy at Acts 16:3, but it is entirely another thing to perform the acts of that Mosaic Law thinking that to do so renders us more pleasing to God, for that demonstrates that we are yet stuck in a mind-set of trying to please God with works by our corrupt flesh, rather than concentrating on cleansing the inside of the cup and platter that the outside also become clean. Matthew 23:26
 

Rach1370

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I can't help but note that you have not answered anything I've pointed out in my previous posts. People will not take you seriously unless you answer the Biblical proofs that have been presented to you. You seem to have this tactic where you think if you do not answer the things you cannot, and distract others and us by pumping out the same (wrong) things again and again, you will gain points. Again I must point out that this in not about points...it's about truth....and you are ignoring, deliberately, what the Bible is telling you on this subject. Do yourself and anyone who is reading and really seaching for truth, and go back and address what's already been shown.

To all those following this lesson here is something to think about....and please.....it's not hard to figure out. God gave us all common sense....and that is all it takes.

Paul's job, just as all of ours, is to tell people about the kingdom of God and what it takes to enter it. When this question was asked of the guy that is going to judge ALL those that desire entrance into God's kingdom, this is what He said;

Matt. 19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now if the Lord says this is what is needed for eternal life do we really have to go any further? Well....we shouldn't.....BUT there are some that will try to say we are not 'obligated' to keep God's laws, inspite of the direct answer the Lord just gave us.

Again, you take the passage out of context, twisting it to make it say what you want it to. Jesus point here is that NO ONE is good, NO ONE is perfect. Even those who say "I've kept the commandments" haven't, not really. They may not have murdered anyone, but darn straight they've hated someone....and Jesus tells us that anyone who has hated in their hearts have murdered.

But even if Jesus' point was for man to strictly follow the Commandments perfectly, look what he says here, in regards to these commandments:

[Fulfilling the Law Through Love]
[8] Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. [9] For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:8-10 ESV)




Does it make sense that God does not require man to obey ANYTHING? Does it make sense that we can just continue to sin and sin and sin until our death and God will just continue to forgive, and forgive and forgive, simply because we have faith in Him?

Well before you answer...let's look at what was said by the same person that said all of those quotes above....


1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Sounds like Paul is advising people not to sin
.

The Bible also tells us that no matter the effort, mankind...ALL mankind, is unrighteous. That means you...even though you "follow the rules". So how on earth do you suppose you're getting into the kingdom of God? If you will perhaps continue the above quote:

But[sup][/sup] you were washed,[sup][/sup] you were sanctified,[sup][/sup] you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor 6:11)

Again, we are ONLY seen as righteous in the eyes of God by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

[Peace with God Through Faith]
[5:1] Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(Romans 5:1 ESV)

[Slaves to Righteousness]
[15] What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! [16] Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? [17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, [18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. [19] I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
(Romans 6:15-19 ESV)


[6] But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
(Romans 7:6 ESV)


[Life in the Spirit]
[8:1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. [3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
(Romans 8:1-4 ESV)


[39] and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.
(Acts 13:39 ESV)



And what is God's definition of sin? Let's read it....

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

True, but once again, EVERYONE sins...even you, who "keep the law". Keeping the law will NOT gain us salvation.
As we see above, in Romans 6:15-19, just because we have righteousness in Christ, does NOT give us license to sin freely. Of course not....anyone who does so does not have true regeneration of the spirit. Anyone who is saved and has the Holy Spirit, will strive everyday against sin. But even fighting it as we do, NO ONE will live the perfect life Jesus did.

Now let's prove this by reading what Paul said next....

"[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

So, reguardless of what anybody tries to tell you, Paul IS telling people NOT to break God's laws!

Like I just said, no true Christian will say we have the right to continue sinning. We acknowledge that sin is a greivance against God...but we also know that trying to rely on our own faulty following of Laws we cannot keep, will NOT gain us anything. The Bible tells us that ONLY through the sacrifice of Jesus can we ever hope to be seen as righteous in God's eyes. Jesus gives us everything. It's the "great exchange" as Martin Luther calls it....Jesus gives us His righteousness, and we give Him our sin.

Now where did Paul receive such information? How did he know who to include? Where did he obtain this list of people? From the laws of God, which he found written in the OT!

Let's read more of what Paul had to say...

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Sounds like yet another commandment of God Paul is saying to keep!

You see, the difference I see here, is that Paul is saying: "flee sin...fight against sin....and trust Jesus for your salvation"
And you say: "Don't sin...at all...or go to hell....keep the laws...it'll help you get to heaven"

Paul is not saying what you are. Of course Paul is not encouraging us to sin, but he is NOT telling us to rely on our own keeping of laws. As I've said before...Paul tells his readers that his own attempts to gain righteousness by works of the law was RUBBISH. And before his conversion Paul boasted a pure pedigree of law keeping...much better than yours, I dare say.


Let's continue....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ok readers....wait one second!…… How can we SIN (break God’s laws) if there are no laws to keep?

Lets look at that whole passage:

[sup]26[/sup]For if we go on sinning deliberately[sup][/sup] after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [sup]27[/sup][sup][/sup] but a fearful expectation of judgment, and[sup][/sup] a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. [sup]28[/sup] Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy[sup][/sup] on the evidence of two or three witnesses. [sup]29[/sup]How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned[sup][/sup] the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? [sup]30[/sup]For we know him who said,[sup][/sup] "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again,[sup][/sup] "The Lord will judge his people." [sup]31[/sup] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Heb 10:26-31)

I have to say...This passage speaks more of those who deny the full power of Christ's sacrifice, than those of us who sin and then repent. He cannot be speaking of believers who repent daily of sin....because we ALL sin. If anyone who sinned would be condemned to judgment and fire, than Jesus died for no one. This passage talks to you, my friend. You who would try and convince others that Jesus work on the cross was not enough. You who would believe that he can somehow earn his own righteousness, earn his own way into the Kingdom of God.

Here is more from Paul….


Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now let's carefully look at this scripture.

Sin is the breaking of God's laws..... and Paul says

"UNTIL the law...the breaking of the law was still in the world"! Until WHAT law? So that means there was a law that was ADDED (Hint for next lesson!) to go along with the others laws that were being broken.

Then Paul says sin is not 'imputed' or 'done away with' when there is no law? So if sin, the breaking of God's laws, is NOT done away with when there is no law, can only mean, Paul is speaking of ANOTHER set of laws that have been done away with.

The ONLY way any of this can make sense lies in the FACT that Paul speaks of more than one law. Paul is NOT always referring to ALL 613 laws in his writings.

Think about is readers...how can Paul say "Flee fornication", "...if we sin wilfully...", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,".....
.

You are doing your very best to confuse a very simple issue. Do you suppose that people will believe you if you confuse them, make them think you know something they don't? The issue is simple...lets look at the passage:

[sup]13[/sup]for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but[sup][/sup] sin is not counted where there is no law (Rom 5:13)

This doens't mean there was more than one law. It's simple. Adam and Eve sinned and mankind fell. There was no mosaic law at this point....but from this moment on sin was rampant. But how did fallen man know they were sinning against God? Evil actions now came easily to them...naturally...why should they question it? And indeed they didn't question it...and things got so bad God sent the flood. But when God set down the Laws for Moses, man suddenly had something infront of them telling them what was and was not permitted. The Law cannot save....it never could....it was always going to be for Jesus to do. But the Law gave mankind something which they may strive not be the completely debauched race that they so often became when they turned from the Law and God.


This is my answer to the questions asked;

Paul speaks of TWO different laws in his writings;

There is the one set of laws that was against man, a set of laws that God never liked but allowed, a set of laws that was to keep those that believed in God with hope and faith, a set of laws that was only to be around for a little while.

Then Paul speaks of another set of laws;

This is the set of laws where he found the following....."What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.", "Flee fornication", "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,".

Speaking of TWO sets of laws is how this works. How else can it?

All of this will be proven in an upcoming lesson.

So for now....let's leave the law behind for awhile and move on to other topics in God's word.

Complete and utter suppisiton. You can only make sense of these passages in this manner because you are starting from a faulty premise in the beginning.

You try and brush this off as done, but you haven't ONCE addressed any of the biblical responses given to you. You are wrong Ecc, and your ideas are pure heresy against the love and sacrifice of Jesus. You will not earn your way into heaven...as we've pointed out before...all your "keeping the law" will be presented to God as dog crap or filthy rags. That sounds harsh, but the Bible clearly tells us that. You are hurting yourself deeply by clinging to your need to be relgious.