These words are clear, yet you still cannot comprehend. You need a miraculous awakening from the Holy Spirit
No miracles today Dan, 1Corinthians 13:1-8;9;10
Prove you have received a miracle from God like the 1st, century christians did.
You cannot.
Paul not only taught but confirmed that his teaching was from the direct indwelling of the Holy Spirit, by miracles
1Corinthians 2:4,
- and my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in
demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Paul and the rest of the apostles proved they had received a miracle when they taught.
All you can do is claim it with your mouth.
You cannot prove it.
Why is it you claim to be directly guided by the Holy Spirit when you teach against His revelation?
Matthew 17:9 still does not negate Luke 18:31-34 and Luke 24:44-47
Matthew 17:9 does not contradict Lk. 18 ; Lk. 24.
What it does is show your interpretation of those Scriptures is err.
So "they understood none of these things" and this saying was "hid from them" and "neither knew they the things which were spoken" along with "opened their understanding to comprehend the Scriptures" means they were fully capable of comprehending the Scriptures exclusively on their own, apart from God? Is that what you are saying?
You have been taught to see the Scriptures from the calvinist point of view.
You think God directly hid understanding from them.
Why? You think God did not want them to believe as calvinism teaches.
Sorry, but you are not making sense.
God absolutely wanted the true followers of jesus to understand His teaching.
Dan, Jesus tells them what is going to take place.
If Jesus does not want them to understand,...
Also Jesus being God WOULD KNOW THAT THEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND IF HE WAS THE ONE WHO BLINDED THEIR UNDERSTANDING!!!
Do you not see how ridiculous it is for Jesus to teach them while at the same time not allowing them to understand what He is saying to them?
That is the nonsense of calvanist doctrine.
God tells them to understand, then at the same time makes them not understand.
Tomfoolery
Listen to Jesus teach them what is going to take place,
Luke 18:31-34,
- So Jesus took the twelve aside and said to them,
Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.
For we will be delivered to the Gentiles and be mocked and insulted and spit upon.
They will scourge Him and kill Him and the third day He will rise again
Now according to you, Jesus did not want them to understand,
So I guess Jesus likes to waste His breath on pointless teaching.
Next verse,
34 - But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them and they did not know the things which were spoken.
So according to your explanation Jesus told them want would happen but kept them from understanding.
Well, heres more proof that calvinist "dual will of God" is illogical error.
Just keep reading the chapter Dan.
Folks did understand and believe on Jesus!
This disproves your doctrine that they were miraculously hindered from understanding Gods teaching.
Luke 18:40-42,
- So Jesus stood still and commanded him to be brought to Him.
and when he had come near, He asked him saying,
What do you want Me to do for you? he said, Lord that I may receive my sight.
Then Jesus said to Him,
Receive your sight; your faith has made you well
His Faith in Jesus Dan.
The apostles had unbelief in what Jesus had just told them He would die and ressurect.
If God was blinding those who heard Him, so they could not understand,
why did the blind man have faith?
He understood.
Jesus knew his preaching could be understood!
Mark 7:14
- When Jesus had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them,
Hear Me, everyone and understand
Now the apostles did not understand the parable.
Is it because God did not want them to understand?
If so, then why does Jesus explain it to them until they do understand?
Mark 7:18,
- So He said to them,
Are you thus without understanding also?
Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him.....
When Jesus did teach and did not want men to understand He spoke in parables
And He did not explain them to the ones that He wanted the truth hidden from them.
When Jesus taught the apostles about His death and ressurection He told them with plain straightforward speech.
Matthew 13:10-11,
- and the disciples came and said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?
Jesus answered and said to them,
Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
The apostles were chosen to understand Jesus' teaching.
Jesus Himself said so.
Dan says they were not.
Dan is disagreeing with God.
After Jesus appeared to them after His resurrection, He opened their understanding to comprehend the Scriptures. (Luke 24:44-47)
Right.
This is what occured. Now you are using Luke 24:44-47 in context.
Before you used Luke 24:44-47 as a proof text that the apostles could not understand what Jesus told them about Him being ressurected from the dead, because He had not opened their understanding.
That is misrepresentation of Luke 24:44-47.
They did not need a miracle from God to open their eyes to understand what Jesus told them in Luke 18:31-33 and Matthew 17:9,
- Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.
Their unbelief and hardness of heart WAS NOT GODS WILL!
Gods will was that they believed in what Jesus taught them.
Calvinism teaches God hardens hearts because He desires to harden mens hearts.
That would make God evil.
Calvinism teaches God cherry picks who He will give understanding to and who He will blind from the truth before the individual can choose to believe or disbelieve.
This makes God evil.
How God hardened the apostles and all mens hearts through unbelief.
Answer: By His Word.
Pharoah's heart was hardened by the word of God.
God did not choose to force Pharoh to into disobeying Him.
God desired for Pharoh to obey Him and be saved.
If not God is evil.
How?
God is our spiritual Father.
Same way our earthly father hardens our hearts.
A father had two sons.
He gave both sons the same rules to follow/obey.
One son allows obeyed.
But one day the other son chose to disobey his dad's rules.
At first it bothered His conscience.
But as he continued to disobey his dad.
It bothered his conscience less.
Eventually his disobeying his dad's rules no longer bothered his conscience.
In this sense His dad's rules hardened the boys heart.
Likewise Gods commandments can do both.
If one believes and obeys Gods commandments they will open the heart.
If one chooses not to believe and disobeys Gods word, the word hardens his heart.
This is how God hardened Pharoah's heart.
Moses spoke the word of God to Pharoah.
"Let My people go"
Every time Pharoah rebelled against his Father, the word of his Father hardened his heart.
Likewise when Jesus told His apostles He would be killed and ressurect from the dead,
They like Pharaoh did not like Gods message.
So they chose not to believe,
Therefore their unbelief in rejecting Gods word hardened their hearts to the point that they could not understand WHY Jesus had to go threw this.
They did understand what Jesus told them, just not why.
Later their hearts got so hard from unbelief that they did not even believe that He ressurected from the dead. That is why Jesus rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, Mark 16:14.
If Dan is right and God deliberately blinded their understanding,
Then Jesus was wrong for rebuking them WHEN IT WAS JESUS HIMSELF THAT CAUSED THEM NOT TO BELIEVE OR UNDERSTAND.
That's the nonsensical interpretation of calvinism.
The remaining 11 disciples were not unbelievers in regards to Jesus being the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mathew 16:16; John 6:68-69; 20:31) and they were saved. So their unbelief and hardness of heart was simply towards not initially believing those who had seen Jesus after He had risen
Irrelevant,
No one can be saved with hardness of heart and unbelief.
You have failed to give one passage that teaches a person with hardness of heart and unbelief will be in heaven. I'm still waiting.
Instead all you do is claim they were still saved,
That's just your opinion.
Prove unbelievers in the ressurection will be saved!
So what that they did not believe the eyewitnesses to His His ressurection.
Were they or were not unbelievers in the ressurection ?
Give scripture that one can be saved with a hardened heart
And not believe in the resurrection.
Dan, you know why they did not believe those who told them Jesus had raised from the dead?
Because they did not believe in the ressurection.
Your explanations do not make sense.
You are contradicting your definition of saving faith.
1Corinthians 15:1-4 must believe in the death, burial AND RESSURECTION.
The apostles were unbelievers by choice not by Gods sovereign will.