Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[GracePeace]

Yes. It's the fruit of the Spirit you are describing and the fruit of the Spirit is not bound to Mosaic law because it fulfills the law.

The fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:23).

"Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).​

The Scripture says "the Law is weakened through the flesh"--because it relies on the sinful flesh to perform good deeds, it is a "weak" method of righteousness.
Gal 3:3 also, referring to the works of the Law, describes it as "flesh".
The question as to how these things are is another discussion, but this is what Scripture says.

The "works" that don't justify are good deeds produced by sinful flesh--that has nothing to do with "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith", which, if not performed, results in "condemnation" (Ro 14:23).

 

[mailmandan]

The difference between the works that do not save and the works James refers to is WHO DOES THEM. The fault with the works of the Law is that they are performed by the sinful flesh (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), but works of grace by faith ("faith works by love"--"God is love", and is "at work in us to will and do for His pleasure") are performed by God, they are "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith".

This is the same bogus argument that Roman Catholics use as well in order to "get around" the fact that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works in general. So, you also teach that we are saved by "these" works (works of love/good works etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the law). This explains a lot about your entire system. It's rooted in a false gospel of works-righteousness.

Now when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect works of love/good works etc.. from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which good works that are produced out of love could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) *NOWHERE does the Bible teach that we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of any kind."

The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works..

 

[GracePeace]

Certain people read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not measure up to their personal standards. They read their pre-conceived beliefs into it like this: "If you don't overcome and win the victory through sinless perfection, then you’re going to lose your salvation! But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism, so I don't think that's what it refers to.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't care what they hold--Jesus, the Lamb, is God in the OT. Note that in both cases people are blotted out for sinning against Him. Note the connection between righteousness and Life--sinners are blotted out of the book in both cases.

Yeah, Christ says "to the one who overcomes", yet "this is the victory that has overcome... even our faith", so why is Christ saying for those who have already overcome to overcome still? Because people are led away from abiding (which includes faith) by idolatry (1 Jn 5:21).

I am just not buying what you are selling. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. So much for His saints being blotted out of the book of life, but feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. I believe in God's preservation of His saints.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism, so I don't think that's what it refers to.

Well good, that's a start.

 

[GracePeace]

This is the same bogus argument that Roman Catholics use as well in order to "get around" the fact that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works in general. So, you also teach that we are saved by "these" works (works of love/good works etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the law). This explains a lot about your entire system. It's rooted in a false gospel of works-righteousness.

Now when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect works of love/good works etc.. from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which good works that are produced out of love could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) *NOWHERE does the Bible teach that we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of any kind."

The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works..

No, the Catholic Church does not offer the explanation I do--I had to get those answers from God. Whatever the Catholics teach doesn't satisfy all questions.

Let the reader be the judge: if you don't walk by faith you're "condemned" (Ro 14:23), and "God's righteousness" whereby we are justified, "is revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17).

 

[GracePeace]

I am just not buying what you are selling. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. So much for His saints being blotted out of the book of life, but feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. I believe in God's preservation of His saints.

Yeah, still, "not all Israel is Israel", and anyone who is cut off is no longer accounted among His saints, so He has kept His Word irrespectively.

The issue is I need to believe it all, whereas you're apparently satisfied with believing little slivers of the Word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I ask God when I find difficulties in the Bible.

Well God certainly did not tell you to change the meaning of words and make it appear he said somethign he did nto say

Your solution to the irreconcilable doctrines is to say "God used to do those things but my God changes--He's not the same yesterday today and forever".

Actually. That is the basis of my foundation. he is the same, The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. But you say otherwise.

Yes, their righteousness of faith is not remembered before God, so the spiritually minded person thinks and speaks accordingly.

It does nto say this at all. Your reading something that is not there.

John is talking about people who used to come to their meeting, who used to fellowship with them. but now deny Christ. He said they were NEVER OF US.. He did not say anything about anyone righteousness.

However, He did say something about the other group.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

See the difference, the people who left NEVER had the anointing., they were NEVER SAVED

 

[mailmandan]

Let the reader be the judge: if you don't walk by faith you're "condemned" (Ro 14:23), and "God's righteousness" whereby we are justified, "is revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17).

I already covered this with you in post #430. You can only walk by faith if you are in the faith to begin with.

Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

I have no idea why you say I'm going back on my words. I speak the same truth every time so there's no need to go back and forth. You simply do not understand what I'm saying because you see the Scriptures different than I do. You're stuck on this 1 John 3:23-24 thinking that it means something...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[GracePeace]

Well God certainly did not tell you to change the meaning of words and make it appear he said somethign he did nto say

Actually. That is the basis of my foundation. he is the same, The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. But you say otherwise.

It does nto say this at all. Your reading something that is not there.

John is talking about people who used to come to their meeting, who used to fellowship with them. but now deny Christ. He said they were NEVER OF US.. He did not say anything about anyone righteousness.

However, He did say something about the other group.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

See the difference, the people who left NEVER had the anointing., they were NEVER SAVED

They are blotted out, thus accounted as having never been saved--I don't pick and choose, I believe it all.

 

[GracePeace]

I already covered this with you in post #430. You can only walk by faith if you are in the faith to begin with.

Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

I have no idea why you say I'm going back on my words. I speak the same truth every time so there's no need to go back and forth. You simply do not understand what I'm saying because you see the Scriptures different than I do. You're stuck on this 1 John 3:23-24 thinking that it means something...

www.christianityboard.com

I would agree with that statement.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We don't know who that group was. I have a guess it might have been the belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

I know alot of people want to insert gnosticism into johns writing. This may be true. But I think we can take that too far.

John said they, who are they..

1. They departed from us
2. They deny Christ.

now if these are Gnostics. or just everyday people who came to the meetings. I do not think we can know for sure

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Out of my own copy of the Bible. Agreed. This is why Jesus said if we abide in Him (the Vine) we will produce His fruit. The fruit of the Spirit. If we don't abide in Him, we become cast off as branches, and are worthy only of being burned.

Salvation is not about fruit bearing. That does not save us or determine our salvation

Its about being born again.

 

[GracePeace]

Salvation is not about fruit bearing. That does not save us or determine our salvation

Its about being born again.

"Getting thrown in the fire and burned isn't a salvific issue."

Weird version of Christianity you got there.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The difference between the works that do not save and the works James refers to is WHO DOES THEM. The fault with the works of the Law is that they are performed by the sinful flesh (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3), but works of grace by faith ("faith works by love"--"God is love", and is "at work in us to will and do for His pleasure") are performed by God, they are "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith".

For by grace we have been saved through faith and not of ourselves. Not of works

Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy, he saved us

There are no works which saved. Well there is one. The work of Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

For by grace we have been saved through faith and not of ourselves. Not of works

Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy, he saved us

There are no works which saved. Well there is one. The work of Christ.

Yep, have been saved, are being saved, will be saved--all three tenses are in Scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This thread is about the Word of Life. Inspired by the Holy Spirit and written by the apostles. You should listen instead of disrupting.

This was my short one-way conversation with you. Not reading your response (if any) You're on ignore now. I don't engage with disruptive people anymore.

the op is not inspired by the word of God.

SO you ignore people who disagree with you? Way to go..

 

[Zao is life]

Salvation is not about fruit bearing. That does not save us or determine our salvation

Its about being born again.

Salvation is about being conformed to the image of Christ. It starts with being born again, it's not "about" being born again. Birth brings life through the Spirit.

You've failed the theory. Try practice rather, through faith in Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah, still, "not all Israel is Israel", and anyone who is cut off is no longer accounted among His saints, so He has kept His Word irrespectively.

The issue is I need to believe it all, whereas you're apparently satisfied with believing little slivers of the Word.

Did God forget to mention that in Psalm 37:28? What God said about His saints being preserved forever is crystal clear in Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Show me where God said "anyone who is cut off is no longer accounted among His saints" in Psalm 37:28. That's your eisegesis.

Romans 9:6 - But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

 

[Zao is life]

the op is not inspired by the word of God.

SO you ignore people who disagree with you? Way to go..

Usual culprits. Always seem to be on the personal attacks instead of talking about the subject only. I wonder why