Abortion makes Stalin and Hitler look like Amateurs

[BreadOfLife]

FYI, I posted this in a different thread and decided to post it here as well.
Joe Biden's flip-flop on abortion abandons his religion for presidency
Candidate can support abortion or serve Christ but not both at the same time

By John Mallon - - Wednesday, April 1, 2020
ANALYSIS/OPINION:

For Wales? Why, Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world … But for Wales!
— Robert Bolt, “A Man For All Seasons”

Joe Biden has a problem: He sold his soul.

I knew this when I heard him say he had changed his mind on the Hyde Amendment. The Hyde Amendment is a law that protected Americans from having their tax money used to pay for abortions. Mr. Biden abandoned a principled position he held for 40 years. Why? I can’t judge him, but apparently it was because he wanted to be president more than he wanted to be Catholic, and the Hyde Amendment stood in his way.

Joe Biden is a Catholic. And the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is a grave moral evil, in which no Catholic may ever take part in any way or to any degree.

Some months ago Mr. Biden was at Mass in South Carolina and attempted to go to Holy Communion. The priest refused to give it to him. It was his duty to refuse Mr. Biden. He was following Vatican guidelines that no Catholic politician may present herself or himself for communion if they support abortion. It is intended as a warning that their soul is in jeopardy.

When questioned about this, Mr. Biden said that he received communion from Pope Francis. Ridiculous, because the pope probably didn’t know who Joe was, and if he did, he probably didn’t know his position on abortion. The pope is busy enough without keeping track of Joe Biden. Besides, it was up to Mr. Bidento know he shouldn’t go to communion, not the pope. So what are we to make of this? That Mr. Bidenput one over on the pope? Ridiculous.

OK, Joe, let’s go, Catholic to Catholic.

You can support abortion or serve Christ but not both at the same time. Take your pick. Read “A Man for all Seasons.” Joe, you should have learned this lesson in South Carolina; if not from all those letters from bishops.

Mr. Biden has a history of making strange comments on the subject. In 2007, on “Meet the Press,” he said, “Look, I’m a practicing Catholic, and it is the biggest dilemma for me in terms of comporting my religious and cultural views with my political responsibility.”

Joe, takes precedence? Left-wing pro-abortion zealots, crazies, or church teaching? Can’t Mr. Biden stand tall and be his own man and follow his conscience as guided by the church? Is he a believer? Does he know that his immortal soul hangs in the balance? (Which is, of course, what Catholics believe.) He could be a hero. He could be another St. Thomas More. The great Henry Hyde didn’t have this conflict.

Is it his political responsibility to support abortion? Or to follow his conscience? In Joe’s case, that does indeed seem to be his dilemma. Joe Biden is now 77, a time when conscientious Catholics reflect on their lives with an eye to their eternal destiny in preparation for death. But Mr. Biden seems to have decided, tragically, on the wrong side.

Just to be clear, let’s look at the actual teaching that applies most directly to pro-abortion Catholic politicians:

“In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it”. — No. 73, Evangelium Vitae, Pope Saint John Paul II, 25 March 1995; quoted from The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion, 18 November 1974, No. 22.

Joe Biden has a decision to make.

“What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?”

— Mark 8:36

• John Mallon holds degrees in theology and is retired as contributing editor of Inside the Vatican magazine.

Source: Joe Biden’s flip-flop on abortion abandons his religion for presidency

Whereas I FULLY agree with the content of your post - it is gravely sinful for any Catholic - any Christian, period - to support or procure abortion - I don't think Joe Biden even knows who he is anymore.

His FAR Left machine is being driven by other forces who will remove him as "incompetent", using the 25th Amendment of the Constitution shortly after coming into office, should he win.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not funny though - I have nothing to do with the worldwide false church witnessed by and exposed by Charles Chiniquoy, Keith Green, and Martin Luther, and hundreds of Reformes, and thousands , tens of thousands, or millions of truly saved people outside of the false church.

Funny again that you should put ANY stock in what Charles Chiniquy has to say about the Catholic Church.
He's been debunked more times that Bigfoot - and so has Keith Green.

 

[Taken]

This is precisely the kind of unintelligent response I expected from you.
Good job . . .

TY

 

[Joseph77]

Funny again that you should put ANY stock in what Charles Chiniquy has to say about the Catholic Church.
He's been debunked more times that Bigfoot - and so has Keith Green.

By them ? that gropu from rome? obviously - they even did away with the one true savior !
so naturally, they treat Jesus' Servants the Same way.

 

[OzSpen]

We get upset about many things, yet Churches and Christians are for the most part, passive or mildly upset about killing babies.

When I was young, my father who was in WWII and I discussed a documentary on Germany and Hitler. I was incensed at the German people that would just say nothing, and go along with Hitler's genocide. We cannot just blame Hitler! The people did not stop it! Few brave people spoke out. A few more secretly opposed it and did what they could. But the vast majority supported genocide, because their conscience was so hardened and seared that they saw nothing wrong with it.., or they said and did nothing out of pathetic cowardice and fear.

People are passionate about the injustices in this world, yet compare that to 1.5 Billion murdered babies! Why is my fury so tempered when it comes to infanticide? Is it because I do not want to admit that by age 45, one third of American women have had an abortion. Am I afraid to offend murderers? Even mass-murderers? Am I, worse than those WWII Germans that disgust me so much? Do I really have a proportionate perspective?

1.5 Billion Children Are Dead – What Is The Appropriate Sentence For Such A Crime?

Brilliant analysis. Many justify abortion with unproven evidence pre-born child is not a human being.

 

[Joseph77]

Brilliant analysis. Many justify abortion with unproven evidence pre-born child is not a human being.

everyone seems to fell guilty after killing a baby, and many have suffered afterwards with various illnesses caused by the stress and guilt of it,.....
do spouses and friends and so forth also defend the killing because they don't want anyone to be guilty ?
because of seared consciences ?

Note that those who do repent , even if they were not part of it but only were silent,
after they repent ,
they have clean fellowship again and a clear and pure conscience ! THANKS BE TO JESUS AND THE FATHER IN HEAVEN !

i.e. they do not have to remain guilty.... - it is a choice to repent or not to repent ... often with a lot of social pressure outside of Christ, to never repent....

 

[BreadOfLife]

By them ? that gropu from rome? obviously - they even did away with the one true savior !
so naturally, they treat Jesus' Servants the Same way.

Nope - liars like Chiuniqyu and ignoramuses like Green are debunked by anybody who can READ.
Whenever people like them have an ax to grind - they always screw up.

This isn't rocket science.
The facts are out there for anybody who can put a sentence together . . .

 

[Joseph77]

Thankfully, God has provided Reformers, those millions perhaps who escaped the corruption and deception of rome.
CHiniquoy and Keith Green and Martin Luther were simply servants used by Jesus to shine the Light on the abominations of rome,

and everyone seeking the Light , seeking Truth, seeking Jesus, can be blessed by the Truth thus revealed...

woe to all those in line with rome who keep trampling the truth, destroying souls, taking the light out of the eyes of little children....

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thankfully, God has provided Reformers, those millions perhaps who escaped the corruption and deception of rome. CHiniquoy and Keith Green and Martin Luther were simply servants used by Jesus to shine the Light on the abominations of rome, and everyone seeking the Light , seeking Truth, seeking Jesus, can be blessed by the Truth thus revealed...
woe to all those in line with rome who keep trampling the truth, destroying souls, taking the light out of the eyes of little children....

And WOE to all of those who think that Jesus lied when He said that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
According to YOU - they DID and it was rebuilt in the 16th century.

Good luck explaining that one to God . . .

 

[Joseph77]

He obviously understands, and tells His children "come out of that great abomination" thus HE SAVE HIS 'CHURCH' from the deception of the false church. As Martin Luther learned a few years ago, and millions since then , from God, who saved them from that which is false...
(all proven by Scripture - the false teachings, the false gospels, the false and abominable practices which are totally contrary to Scripture (GOD'S WORD!) )

 

[Joseph77]

(and since the first century, there were always faithful groups not sucked into the counterfeit)

 

[marksman]

Reading the facts about "how" an abortion is performed does not change what I said.
Of course an unborn developing fetus will react to crude abortion methods....Same as it will react to anything harmful that makes its way from the female to the placenta to the developing fetus.


A plant and animal in developing stages will Also react to things that inhibit or harm its growth or kill it.

Glory to God,
Taken

I was under the impression after 30 years of study on the subject that all abortions were crude.

 

[marksman]

I am of the opinion that no healthy child should be aborted.
The mother has a right to such things if she was raped, this must be done early as, not late term or if the mother could die.
I never supported back yard abortions at all.

It is my opinion that NO baby should be aborted. if it is conceived then it is God's will that it should live. We have plenty of stories of babies being a product of rape and the mother refuses to abort and the baby is born and the mother loves the baby, even knowing how it was conceived.

Most abortions are done for convenience's sake. They never intended to get pregnant so they kill the baby because it will muck up their plans to get rich or advance their career. Most abortions are done on single women.

 

[Taken]

I was under the impression after 30 years of study on the subject that all abortions were crude.

I am convinced "methods" that people who have performed an abortion over history have been crude.
(And over history, "methods devised of men", performing abortions, "change"... BY how the abortionish decides, medical advisory boards decides and enacted jurisdictional laws decide.)

The Public at Large all have their own Individual Opinions regarding Abortions.

Personally I believe we are free Individuals to think, believe, do as we WILL, and the "consequences" for effecting our own Freewill are apportioned to the Individual.

It is Gods hand that Forms a body.
Aborting a fetus BEING formed, is man's intervention to STOP Gods work.
(But men do not draw attention to that aspect).

In my Opinion, there is always a "negative consequence" for men intervening that Stops Gods Works...Be it God Forming a Body or men drawing men Away from Faith in the Lord God.

In a case of Abortions, The highlight is on the attention of The "fetus's" "feelings".

I believe Individual men have:
two types of "feelings".
1) an internal Formed nervous system.
2) an imparted soul for "emotional" feelings (and other senses awareness brought into Life).

Personally, I believe it is an Individual that receives a soul, Delivered into the nostrils of a Formed Birthed Individual, Via the Breath of God, and the works of God.

Formed, Individual being KEY words.

I believe Individuals, Are Individuals, when severed from a placenta, which occurs at a man's natural birth.

I do not believe a "fetus" feels...
Emotional Pain during an Abortion.
I do not believe a "fetus" feels...
Neurological Pain during an Abortion.

As well in consideration...of a Natural Birth of a fully Form-ED, Body, Naturally (according to the Law of Nature, determined approx of 9 Months from conception to Birth)...
That a Body "squeezing" through a vaginal opening could also be considered "crude".
Quite neurologically Painful to the Individual Female...but Again;
I do not Believe it is either:
Emotionally OR Neurologically "PAINFUL" to the Body being Delivered forth.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man

Stop at THAT Fact.
Nothing occurred Until THAT Fact was Accomplished. Form-ED.
No Life. No Breath. No Feelings. (Neither ALIVE or DEAD, yet Fully Form-ED).

of the dust of the ground,

Simple knowledge, WHAT, God Used to Form the man.

and

Now is Revealed WHAT God DID with THAT fully Formed Individual thing, that God called A man, "formed Out of Dust".

breathed into his nostrils

God Breathed specifically INTO the fully Form-ed Individual man's nostrils...
What? Oxygen? No. Life from God? Yes.

the breath of life;

Now the fully Fom-ed man of Dust ...(who Was neither Alive OR Dead...IS an ALIVE man...AND LIVING soul.

and man became a living soul.

Point Being-
Form-ed -
Individual -
Receiving - life is an Individual Formed man AND then an "ALIVE" man and Living Soul.
And all indications in my perspective...
Is a Form-ing Body is Dependant on Gods hand and His handiworks of a placenta.
And an Individual man IS Accomplished When the "Body" is severed from the Placenta.
And LIFE is given the Form-ed Body, When God Blows His Breath INTO the individual Form-ed Body.

Crude measures men Devise to abort a FORM-ING Body...Sure.
Crude measure God devised for a FORM-ED Body to come forth from a female womb...Sure.

A Body coming forth...Feeling emotional or nurological PAIN...per either method...
No.

The PAIN of a Body coming forth out from a woman's womb, was clearly a curse upon a womans (Emotional AND Neurological) Pain...NOT upon the Body coming forth.

Gen 3:
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jacob Marley]

I believe Hitler had around 100 assassination attempts on him.
Nazi death camps are for sure evil, but also .....many atrocities were committed during WWII;Some are still haunted by it.
Don't know why abortions would be on your conscious, when it's the state that sanctions it.
You often hear the "it's not human yet" argument. The one that annoy's me the most is "My body, my choice."....uttered from the lips of not .... one......single.......libertarian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am convinced "methods" that people who have performed an abortion over history have been crude.
(And over history, "methods devised of men", performing abortions, "change"... BY how the abortionish decides, medical advisory boards decides and enacted jurisdictional laws decide.)

The Public at Large all have their own Individual Opinions regarding Abortions.

Personally I believe we are free Individuals to think, believe, do as we WILL, and the "consequences" for effecting our own Freewill are apportioned to the Individual.

It is Gods hand that Forms a body.
Aborting a fetus BEING formed, is man's intervention to STOP Gods work.
(But men do not draw attention to that aspect).

In my Opinion, there is always a "negative consequence" for men intervening that Stops Gods Works...Be it God Forming a Body or men drawing men Away from Faith in the Lord God.

In a case of Abortions, The highlight is on the attention of The "fetus's" "feelings".

I believe Individual men have:
two types of "feelings".
1) an internal Formed nervous system.
2) an imparted soul for "emotional" feelings (and other senses awareness brought into Life).

Personally, I believe it is an Individual that receives a soul, Delivered into the nostrils of a Formed Birthed Individual, Via the Breath of God, and the works of God.

Formed, Individual being KEY words.

I believe Individuals, Are Individuals, when severed from a placenta, which occurs at a man's natural birth.

I do not believe a "fetus" feels...
Emotional Pain during an Abortion.
I do not believe a "fetus" feels...Neurological Pain during an Abortion.

As well in consideration...of a Natural Birth of a fully Form-ED, Body, Naturally (according to the Law of Nature, determined approx of 9 Months from conception to Birth)...
That a Body "squeezing" through a vaginal opening could also be considered "crude".
Quite neurologically Painful to the Individual Female...but Again;
I do not Believe it is either:
Emotionally OR Neurologically "PAINFUL" to the Body being Delivered forth.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man

Stop at THAT Fact.
Nothing occurred Until THAT Fact was Accomplished. Form-ED.
No Life. No Breath. No Feelings. (Neither ALIVE or DEAD, yet Fully Form-ED).

Simple knowledge, WHAT, God Used to Form the man.

Now is Revealed WHAT God DID with THAT fully Formed Individual thing, that God called A man, "formed Out of Dust".

God Breathed specifically INTO the fully Form-ed Individual man's nostrils...
What? Oxygen? No. Life from God? Yes.

Now the fully Fom-ed man of Dust ...(who Was neither Alive OR Dead...IS an ALIVE man...AND LIVING soul.

Point Being-
Form-ed -
Individual -
Receiving - life is an Individual Formed man AND then an "ALIVE" man and Living Soul.
And all indications in my perspective...
Is a Form-ing Body is Dependant on Gods hand and His handiworks of a placenta.
And an Individual man IS Accomplished When the "Body" is severed from the Placenta.
And LIFE is given the Form-ed Body, When God Blows His Breath INTO the individual Form-ed Body.

Crude measures men Devise to abort a FORM-ING Body...Sure.
Crude measure God devised for a FORM-ED Body to come forth from a female womb...Sure.

A Body coming forth...Feeling emotional or nurological PAIN...per either method...
No.

The PAIN of a Body coming forth out from a woman's womb, was clearly a curse upon a womans (Emotional AND Neurological) Pain...NOT upon the Body coming forth.

Gen 3:
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;

Glory to God,
Taken

MOST people I've known over the years who claim to profess Christ - and are morally ambivalent about abortion like YOU - were either directly involved in procuring an abortion for somebody - or had one themselves.

The ignorant remarks above in RED illustrate a person possibly struggling with guilt.
First of all - unborn babies DO receive oxygen from the placenta, so they DO in a sense "breathe" on their own.

As for NOT feeling pain - have you ever seen an abortion?? They ABSOLUTELY feel the pain. They recoil - sometimes violently - from the surgical instruments like a person being stabbed.
Within the first trimester of gestation - when MOST abortions occur - the bab already had a heartbeat, produces its own blood and has a central nervous system.

This whole denial about the pain that the baby feels is nothing more than people trying to rationalize what they did.

 

[Taken]

MOST people I've known over the years who claim to profess Christ - and are morally ambivalent

That is your Opinion, based on your inability to comprehend.

I have been Explicit.
I do not support Abortion, as I PLAINLY said.
I do support Freedom for All people to Believe and Do as THEY Choose...and the CONSEQUENCES also BE unto THEM.

about abortion like YOU -

No. You speaking FOR me is of no consequence to me.

were either directly involved in procuring an abortion for somebody - or had one themselves.

No. I have said nothing about being involved with having had or being involved with abortionists.

Again...it is Obvious you are Blind to comprehend what NOT supporting Abortions means.
To be clear to your small mind...
It means To have No involvement or agreement with Abortions!

The ignorant remarks above in RED illustrate a person possibly struggling with guilt.

I have Zero Guilt for NOT supporting Abortions.

I have Zero Guilt FOR supporting Freewill.

You appear to have an Enormous problem with Comprehension.

You appear to have an Enormous problem when You can not Dictate and Make others subservant to "your" Freewill.

First of all - unborn babies DO receive oxygen from the placenta, so they DO in a sense "breathe" on their own.

Your comment is Expressly reflective of an unlearned person.

Breathing is Expressly:
an inhalation or exhalation of air from the lungs.

No... the developing human does NOT Breath anything in the Womb. It's lungs are filled with fluid.

As for NOT feeling pain - have you ever seen an abortion??

No.
But carry on with your First-hand knowledge of Your involvement with (the many) involved in abortions.

They ABSOLUTELY feel the pain. They recoil - sometimes violently -

from the surgical instruments like a person being stabbed.
Within the first trimester of gestation - when MOST abortions occur - the bab already had a heartbeat, produces its own blood and has a central nervous system.

It is Obvious you speak out of Emotions and not Facts.
A fetus is in a development stage.
A fetus' Nervous System is complete After the First Trimester ...approx 20-22 Weeks.

In the Start of the development stage OF the Nervous System, IS AN ARC, that causes an "INVOLUNTARY" Reflex...
In your ignorance;
YOU have described an INVOLUNTARY Reflex, AS a recoil from FEELING Pain.

You Obviously are not educated in Facts.
The Central Nervous System is Not fully Developed Until After the First Trimester.

The Arc that causes An INVOLUNTARY Reflex, means: movement "without" a signal being Sent to the Brain that Pain is or had occurred.

You appear to be so uninformed, that you are ignorant of the Fact, that the INVOLUNTARY Arc developed in an unborn human Remains in Born Human and THEY Also "recoil" "Before Pain is Felt."

You are also revealing your ignorance of the Fact that Nerves do not "feel" Pain.
It is the transmittal of the Nerve TO the Brain that Reveals "pain".
Cutting a Nerve Severs the Nerve from sending a signal to the Brain.

This whole denial about the pain that the baby feels is nothing more than people trying to rationalize what they did.

My non-involvement with Abortion is only a Moral Issue.

You seem very concerned about PAIN, you claim, a fetus experiences During an Abortion.

Your personal involvement with Abortions Omits how you have First-hand knowledge of "Pain felt" by an Aborted Fetus.

Are you the result of a Failed Abortion and here giving a First-hand account of the Pain you felt?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is your Opinion, based on your inability to comprehend.

I have been Explicit.
I do not support Abortion, as I PLAINLY said.
I do support Freedom for All people to Believe and Do as THEY Choose...and the CONSEQUENCES also BE unto THEM.

No. You speaking FOR me is of no consequence to me.

No. I have said nothing about being involved with having had or being involved with abortionists.

Again...it is Obvious you are Blind to comprehend what NOT supporting Abortions means.
To be clear to your small mind...
It means To have No involvement or agreement with Abortions!

I have Zero Guilt for NOT supporting Abortions.

I have Zero Guilt FOR supporting Freewill.

You appear to have an Enormous problem with Comprehension.

You appear to have an Enormous problem when You can not Dictate and Make others subservant to "your" Freewill.

Your comment is Expressly reflective of an unlearned person.

Breathing is Expressly:
an inhalation or exhalation of air from the lungs.

No... the developing human does NOT Breath anything in the Womb. It's lungs are filled with fluid.

No.
But carry on with your First-hand knowledge of Your involvement with (the many) involved in abortions.

It is Obvious you speak out of Emotions and not Facts.
A fetus is in a development stage.
A fetus' Nervous System is complete After the First Trimester ...approx 20-22 Weeks.

In the Start of the development stage OF the Nervous System, IS AN ARC, that causes an "INVOLUNTARY" Reflex...
In your ignorance;
YOU have described an INVOLUNTARY Reflex, AS a recoil from FEELING Pain.

You Obviously are not educated in Facts.
The Central Nervous System is Not fully Developed Until After the First Trimester.

The Arc that causes An INVOLUNTARY Reflex, means: movement "without" a signal being Sent to the Brain that Pain is or had occurred.

You appear to be so uninformed, that you are ignorant of the Fact, that the INVOLUNTARY Arc developed in an unborn human Remains in Born Human and THEY Also "recoil" "Before Pain is Felt."

You are also revealing your ignorance of the Fact that Nerves do not "feel" Pain.
It is the transmittal of the Nerve TO the Brain that Reveals "pain".
Cutting a Nerve Severs the Nerve from sending a signal to the Brain.

My non-involvement with Abortion is only a Moral Issue.

You seem very concerned about PAIN, you claim, a fetus experiences During an Abortion.

Your personal involvement with Abortions Omits how you have First-hand knowledge of "Pain felt" by an Aborted Fetus.

Are you the result of a Failed Abortion and here giving a First-hand account of the Pain you felt?

Glory to God,
Taken

Thanks for displaying your dishonesty so plainly for everyone to see.

First of all – I NEVER said that you “supported” abortions –so your accusation is a LIE. I said that your position was morally ambivalent. You’re a moral relativist. Abortion is just fine depending on the situation or the person.

If you “support freedom” for all people, as you say – why don’t you support the needs of a rapist? Or a serial killer?? How about people who want to scream “Fire!” in a crowded room? Don’t they have the “freedom” to do what they want??

And your ignorance is just as impressive as your dishonesty . . .
YOU as an adult human being are subject to involuntary nerve responses. So YOUR position that an unborn person experiencing the same - but does NOT feel pain - or is NOT recoiling from the anticipation of impending pain is absolute nonsense.

A voluntary nerve response is when you knowingly perform a motor function with premedication.
An INVOLUNTARY response is anything else – like when you smash your finger in a drawer or somebody STABS you with a medical instrument.

Your logic is self-defeating . . .