Abortion

[Stan B]

You're playing word games now. A miscarriage is not a chosen outcome.

I didn't say that. Their chosen outcome was to eventually give birth, which indeed they did.

 

[BreadOfLife]

1. You are stuck with the fact that Daniel says that the Antichrist is the Prince of the peo0ple who destroyed Israel in the 1st century:

26Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.
Then the people [Romans] of the Prince [Prince of Rome] who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed. 27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,i but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.” Dan 9:27

2. If you think Jerusalem is the City of the Whore: “And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning," Rev 18:9 And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. Rev 19:3

Doesn't sound like the Holy City, the Holy Place, the Throne of David, where Christ is going to set up His Throne in the Millennial Kingdom, amidst the fire, smoke and ashes that arise forever from that permanently destroyed city?

Ummmmm, NEWSFLASH:
ROME invaded Jerusalem and DESTRYOLED the Temple in the FIRST century.

Jerusalem WAS the “faithful city”. However, Apostate Jerusalem BECAME a whore (Isaiah 1:21) when she rejected Christ and colluded with t he Romans to destroy the Christians.
"Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)

The Whore is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

The “Whore” is NOT a Church – not even yours . . ..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Bishop and iconic church historian Eusebius, in his second book against Sabellius, expressly declares that since a word is not in the Scriptures, it is not satisfactory to him. He speaks to the following effect: "As inquiring into truths which admit of investigation, it is indolence, so prying into others, where scrutiny is expedient is audacity. Into what truths then ought we to search? Those truths we find recorded in the Scriptures. But what we do not find recorded there, let us not search after. For had the knowledge of them been incumbent on us, the Holy Spirit doubtless would have placed them there."

"Let us not hazard ourselves in such a risk, but speak safely; and let not anything that is written be blotted out."

"Speak what is written, and strife will be abandoned."

Eusebius was persecuted and murdered by Rome for declining to kiss pagan Roman butt; and from your comments, Rome's hatred of truth hasn't changed in 2.000 years.

Notwithstanding, for those of us who have read the BIBLE, Sola Scriptura was the very last message left to us in Scripture:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book." Rev 22:18

Your choice: God of the Bible . . . . or god of Rome!

First of all - get your FACTS straight.
Eusebius died an old man. He was't "murdered" by the Church.,

Seconsly - it is fitting that you agree with Eusevius, who was aligned with the Arian Heresy of his day. The only "persecution" he endured was self-inflicted for having apparently embraced this anomination.

Your Protestant invention that is Sola Scriptura is a self-refuting doctrine because it CANNOT be found on the very pages of the Scriptures it purpoirts to be our "SOLE" Authority.

Finaly - I don't HAVE to choose between the God of the Bible and His Church.
They are ONE (Acts 9:4-5, Col. 1:18) - and Jesus gave Suprememe earthly Authority to His CHURCH (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, Joihn 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).
That's the Church I belong to . . .

 

[marks]

I wonder if any women, now in their old age, feel regret, remorse and guilt when they think "That baby I aborted would be 50 years old now", or don't they care?

From what I hear, that's common. When they realize it really was a person.

Much love!

 

[Stan B]

From what I hear, that's common. When they realize it really was a person.

Much love!

OR, when unBiblical anti-abortion cults send them on a guilt trip. :-(

 

[marks]

OR, when unBiblical anti-abortion cults send them on a guilt trip. :-(

No, I think it's when they realize it was a person. At least, that's been what I've heard from those I've known who have had abortions. Not to many, just a few.

I know you think personhood doesn't come til they breath, but the mother breathes for them, and gives them life in the oxygen that passes through their blood. The life is in the blood, and there is life in their blood.

It's not buying into somebody's guilt trip, it's coming to see clearly with spiritual maturity, that's what I see happening.

Abortion is murdering a person who thinks and feels and moves, who wakes and sleeps, who feels pleasure and pain. A person who knows their mother and father. All of these are known in medical science.

Much love!

 

[Dropship]

I think we're all agreed that if continuing a pregnancy would pose serious health risks for the mother, the abortion option should be on the table for her after discussing the situation with family, friends and doctors.
Likewise, if scans would show the fetus to be seriously malformed the abortion option should be there.

 

[BreadOfLife]

OR, when unBiblical anti-abortion cults send them on a guilt trip. :-(

The only thing "unBiblical" about the Pr-Life position is YOUR refusal to accept God's truth.

It's already been extabllished from Scripture that an unborn child is a person with a soul in the WOMB. Yet, like the proverbial spoiled childrom who won't listen - you still refuse to believ in God's Word.

I'n STILL waiting for you to explain how a "dead" thing in Elizabeth's woms was moved by the Holy Spirit to "leap for joy" because his unborn "dead", souless cousin Jesus was near (Luke 1:31) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think we're all agreed that if continuing a pregnancy would pose serious health risks for the mother, the abortion option should be on the table for her after discussing the situation with family, friends and doctors.
Likewise, if scans would show the fetus to be seriously malformed the abortion option should be there.

No - we're not ALL agreed.
YOU don't have the power of life and death over ANY himan being.

Only GOD does.

 

[Stan B]

No, I think it's when they realize it was a person. At least, that's been what I've heard from those I've known who have had abortions. Not to many, just a few.

I know you think personhood doesn't come til they breath, but the mother breathes for them, and gives them life in the oxygen that passes through their blood. The life is in the blood, and there is life in their blood.

It's not buying into somebody's guilt trip, it's coming to see clearly with spiritual maturity, that's what I see happening.

Abortion is murdering a person who thinks and feels and moves, who wakes and sleeps, who feels pleasure and pain. A person who knows their mother and father. All of these are known in medical science.

Much love!

Your comments on the mother breathing for them, confirms the millennia-old belief held by those who are interpreting directly from the original Hebrew, that they remain part of the mother's body, until the umbilical cord is severed and the infant takes its first breath; the time when the Spirit of God breathes into its nostrils, the Breath of Life., i.e a VIABLE LIVING BEING!! One who can survive with the new body God has given them.

Not my idea; God's idea: that's what the Bible says. So the only issue is whether you believe the Bible, or the satanic teachings of some anti-God cult!!

Throughout Scripture, Genesis, Job, Ezekiel, Revelation, the essence of life is having the Breath of Life in their nostrils. No exceptions throughout Scripture!

You say that abortion is murder, the murder of a person who thinks and feels and moves, who wakes and sleeps, who feels pleasure and pain.

The Bible says they are NOT a person until God breathes into them the breath of life, but you say the Bible is perpetrating a lie!

1. Can you provide a single instance where Scripture says abortion is wrong??

2. Can you provide a single instance from Scripture that says a fetus is a living being before it has been born??

 

[The Learner]

I am quoting from:

The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus
Bishop of Cesarea, in Palestine
Translated from the Original
with an Introduction by Christian Frederick Cruise
And a Historical View of the Council of Nicea
by Isaac Boyle
Baker Book House
Grand Rapids Michigan

Library of Congress Card Number 55-10437
ISBN 0-8010-3306-3
Fourteenth Printing, June 1990
about 600 pages

I also have the complete 38 Volumes of the Early Church Fathers which contain the works of Eusebius as well.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://antilogicalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ecclesiastical-history.pdf
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://ia800209.us.archive.org/20/items/ecclesiasticalhi00euse/ecclesiasticalhi00euse.pdf
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://g.christianbook.com/ns/pdf/contents/30815.pdf
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ccel.org/ccel/r/richardson/fathers/cache/fathers.pdf

the-complete-ante-nicene-nicene-and-post-nicene-church-fathers directory listing

the-complete-ante-nicene-nicene-and-post-nicene-church-fathers directory listing

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://antilogicalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ecclesiastical-history.pdf
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://ia800209.us.archive.org/20/items/ecclesiasticalhi00euse/ecclesiasticalhi00euse.pdf

 

[The Learner]

I am quoting from:

The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus
Bishop of Cesarea, in Palestine
Translated from the Original
with an Introduction by Christian Frederick Cruise
And a Historical View of the Council of Nicea
by Isaac Boyle
Baker Book House
Grand Rapids Michigan

Library of Congress Card Number 55-10437
ISBN 0-8010-3306-3
Fourteenth Printing, June 1990
about 600 pages

I also have the complete 38 Volumes of the Early Church Fathers which contain the works of Eusebius as well.

Thank You, Daniel

 

[marks]

The Bible says they are NOT a person until God breathes into them the breath of life, but you say the Bible is perpetrating a lie!

No, it does not. And I do not.

Quote the place, let's see if that's what it says. Contrary to what every mother knows.

Actually, nevermind. I have no interest in debating abortion with you. Sorry!

Much love!

 

[The Learner]

play nice all

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your comments on the mother breathing for them, confirms the millennia-old belief held by those who are interpreting directly from the original Hebrew, that they remain part of the mother's body, until the umbilical cord is severed and the infant takes its first breath; the time when the Spirit of God breathes into its nostrils, the Breath of Life., i.e a VIABLE LIVING BEING!! One who can survive with the new body God has given them.

Not my idea; God's idea: that's what the Bible says. So the only issue is whether you believe the Bible, or the satanic teachings of some anti-God cult!!

Throughout Scripture, Genesis, Job, Ezekiel, Revelation, the essence of life is having the Breath of Life in their nostrils. No exceptions throughout Scripture!

You say that abortion is murder, the murder of a person who thinks and feels and moves, who wakes and sleeps, who feels pleasure and pain.

The Bible says they are NOT a person until God breathes into them the breath of life, but you say the Bible is perpetrating a lie!

1. Can you provide a single instance where Scripture says abortion is wrong??

2. Can you provide a single instance from Scripture that says a fetus is a living being before it has been born??

And you've ALREADY been shown that God is SPIRIT (John 4:24).
And, as a SPIRIT - He doesn't breathe oxygen.

What e breathed into Adam was LIFE, according to Gen 2:7.
The SAME life He breathed into John the Baptist in his mother's womb when he was leaping for joy when he came near his unborn, LIVING Savior, Jesus.

You've LOST this debatre - but you can't admit it . . .

 

[Stan B]

No, it does not. And I do not.

Quote the place, let's see if that's what it says. Contrary to what every mother knows.

Actually, nevermind. I have no interest in debating abortion with you. Sorry!

Much love!

Good idea!! Stay out of it!

I got sucked into this nonsense about 6 years ago when I was involved in a group forum from a Pentecostal church. They were your typical 'feel good, not read much' types. I had never thought about the issue during my first 75 years, but when they started this anti-abortion nonsense, I was familiar enough with Scripture, that I knew it was total extra-Biblical cult nonsense.

Since then, I have made a full study of what the BIBLE has to say about this. It became rather clear that the Bible contains not so much as a single mention of prohibiting abortion, but actually approves of abortions to be administered by the Levitical priest.

Bottom line is that the anti-abortion cult, since they are not Biblical, has demonic origins.

 

[Illuminator]

Luke 2:34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted 35

A SIGN OF CONTRADICTION

The Dignity of the Human Person​

Moving from the theological to the cultural, and the most strikingly in contrast: the Catholic Church’s view on the Dignity of the Human Person. We see this most clearly reflected as a sign of contradiction in the Church’s stance on abortion, human sexuality, and marriage. Founded on the Dignity of the Human Person, the Church stands in contradiction to a modern culture that denies inherent human dignity. For example, a culture that supports abortion, contraception, euthanasia, gender theory, and the destruction of the traditional human family.

In 2012, then president Barack Obama stated that support of same-sex marriage puts him “on the right side of history.” This places the Catholic Church “on the wrong side of history.” Such a sentiment Pope Paul VI predicted as much. He stated:

There is too much clamorous outcry against the voice of the Church, and this is intensified by modern means of communication. But it comes as no surprise to the Church that she, no less than her divine Founder, is destined to be a “sign of contradiction.” She does not, because of this, evade the duty imposed on her of proclaiming humbly but firmly the entire moral law, both natural and evangelical. Since the Church did not make either of these laws, she cannot be their arbiter—only their guardian and interpreter. It could never be right for her to declare lawful what is in fact unlawful, since that, by its very nature, is always opposed to the true good of man.​

Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, 18 [emphasis added]​

​

To reemphasize Pope Paul VI’s words, “It could never be right for her to declare lawful what is in fact unlawful, since that, by its very nature, is always opposed to the true good of man.” For this, the Catholic Church stands as a sign of contradiction to the world.

Consequences of Contradiction
The Church as a sign of contradiction against the world has consequences. As Monsignor Charles Pope once stated in his blog on the same subject in 2012:

…when the Church solemnly and unequivocally speaks on moral questions she is often criticized for being too harsh, judgmental and intolerant, or out of touch with modern realities.​

​

The good monsignor observes that the Church will receive scorn and hatred from the world for its positions. He also comforts his readers by quoting Jesus in John 15:18-21. Here, Jesus states that the world hated Him first. Furthermore, if the world does not hate you as it hates Christ, you belong to the world and not Christ. Finally, standing as a sign of contradiction against the world also has an upside. GK Chesterton made the following observation about saints as a sign of contradiction:

The Saint is a medicine because he is an antidote. Indeed that is why the saint is often a martyr; he is mistaken for a poison because he is an antidote. He will generally be found restoring the world to sanity by exaggerating whatever the world neglects, which is by no means always the same element in every age. Yet each generation seeks its saint by instinct; and he is not what the people want, but rather what the people need… Therefore it is the paradox of history that each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most.”​

​

4 Ways the Catholic Church is a “Sign of Contradiction” to the World​

 

[Stan B]

What e breathed into Adam was LIFE, according to Gen 2:7.
The SAME life He breathed into John the Baptist in his mother's womb when he was leaping for joy when he came near his unborn, LIVING Savior, Jesus.

You've LOST this debatre - but you can't admit it . . .

We've already been through all of that. You just don't listen!
John the Baptist was NOT a newborn living being!! He was Elijah already 900 years of age, being brought to earth incarnate, to prepare the way of the Lord. And he is also going to be brought back again incarnate in the End Times as one of the two witnesses.

 

[Jack]

I am quoting from:

The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus
Bishop of Cesarea, in Palestine
Translated from the Original
with an Introduction by Christian Frederick Cruise
And a Historical View of the Council of Nicea
by Isaac Boyle
Baker Book House
Grand Rapids Michigan

Library of Congress Card Number 55-10437
ISBN 0-8010-3306-3
Fourteenth Printing, June 1990
about 600 pages

I also have the complete 38 Volumes of the Early Church Fathers which contain the works of Eusebius as well.

I think you're brainwashed by Planned Parenthood and Dems who get FILTHY rich murdering babies.

 

[Illuminator]

Denver, Colo., Feb 2, 2023 / 07:51 am

A group of Catholic students was wrongly kicked out of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum because museum staff reacted with hostility to their matching blue pro-life hats, their supporters say.

source