about Suicide

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Big Boy Johnson

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As so many others these days, false teacher David Jeremiah teaches you can kill yourself and end up in heaven (Dr. Jeremiah Audio Clip).

I've had the funerals of a number of people who have taken their own lives, and quite often family members will come and say, "Is there any forgiveness if someone takes their own life." And I need to report that that sin is neither accorded any greater or lesser value in the economy of God than the other sins which are chronicled in the word of God. And it is possible, I believe, for a person who has gone through some terrible stress in their life and in a moment of not thinking clearly has ended their life that person very easily might find his place in heaven; especially because he could have given his heart to Christ in this life; and even to take one's life does not undue what God does in the inward act of salvation. (Saul's Suicide, tape TTW13)

This speaks directly against Matthew 24:13; John 15:1-6; Romans 11:22; 1 Corinthians 15:2; Colossians 1:23; Hebrews 3:6, 14; 12:25; and 1 John 5:4. Committing suicide is not enduring to the end (Matthew 24:13). It is not abiding in Christ (John 15:1-6). It is not continuing in His goodness (Romans 11:22). It is not holding fast the word (1 Corinthians 15:2).

It is definitely being moved away from the hope of the gospel (Colossians 1:23). It is not holding fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end (Hebrews 3:6). It is not holding the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end (Hebrews 3:14). It is refusing and turning away from Him who speaks from heaven (Hebrews 12:25). And, it is not overcoming the world (1 John 5:4), but rather being overcome by the world and the devil (1 Peter 5:8; 1 John 5:18).

This kind of teaching on suicide opens wide the door of death and Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:11-15) to those in despair.

Some might argue, "What about Samson? He committed suicide." Samson's "suicide" was actually an act of war, as he killed three thousand Philistines in his vengeance upon them (Judges 16:28-30). He died in his effort to kill others, as he said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" (Judges 16:30). It was not, as a typical suicide of our day, because of a lack of hope, or a deranged mind. He died with the Philistines to "take vengeance on the Philistines" for his two eyes (Judges 16:28). Plus, this was the only choice he had, to kill them as he did.

Typical suicidal people today are those who have no hope, and they are thus not in Christ (Ephesians 2:12; 1 Peter 1:3; 3:15), or they have been moved away from the hope of the gospel and are thus lost (Colossians 1:21-23). Those with deranged minds, or who "might have a mental breakdown," are those who do not have a sound mind and are therefore not in Christ (Isaiah 26:3; 2 Timothy 1:7). These people will end up in hell if they die in such a state. Such people are not saved.

Those that self murder (commit suicide) are in violation of these biblical truths:

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


*Those that self murder failed to abide In Christ until
the end of their lives, therefore they will not be saved


John 15:1-6
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:2
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Colossians 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 12:25
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 
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TonyChanYT

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Those with deranged minds, or who "might have a mental breakdown," are those who do not have a sound mind and are therefore not in Christ (Isaiah 26:3; 2 Timothy 1:7).
By "therefore," do you mean it in its First-Order Logical sense?
 

Jim C

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Yes, suicide is scripturally sinful, but is not unforgivable.
There is only one unforgivable sin listed in the Bible, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; where one denies the Holy Spirit's testimony about Christ and continually rejects Him until they die.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Yes, suicide is scripturally sinful, but is not unforgivable.

Well, when you commit sin and don't have time to ask for forgiveness and turn away from that sin... you'll be punished for that sin.

So, if you decide to self murder, better do it in such a way to where you can ask for forgiveness and then still be able to turn away from your self murder and cause yourself to not die.

Otherwise... it's curtains sad.gif
 

mailmandan

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Yes, suicide is scripturally sinful, but is not unforgivable.
There is only one unforgivable sin listed in the Bible, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; where one denies the Holy Spirit's testimony about Christ and continually rejects Him until they die.
Yes, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed by the scribes and Pharisees who had witnessed irrefutable evidence that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, yet they claimed instead it was only by Beelzebul, the prince of devils, that Jesus cast out demons. (Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:30)

They had witnessed irrefutable truth that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God. They knew the prophecies were being fulfilled. They saw the works and miracles of Jesus and they heard His clear presentation of truth, yet they deliberately chose to deny the truth and commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus pronounced that sin to be unforgivable.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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And yet... the Lord said this thru the Apostle Paul...

1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


So, if one murders themself, there is no automatic forgiveness of this since the person is dead and can not longer confess and forsake their sin in order to receive forgiveness.

Revelation 21:8
the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

When one commits suicide they are murdering themselves... just like they have no right to murder others, they also have no right before God to murder themselves either.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Those that kill themselves cannot ask for forgiveness and turn away from their sin since they are dead... once one is dead, their fate is sealed.
 
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MatthewG

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Yahava knows the heart, and he knows the condition. There is a resurrection, with an assessment. While I do believe that is good to continue to live out ones life. No one can stop a person who commits the act of suicide, because they end up killing themselves and no one knows about it until the last minute most of the time. Those who say that they can know for sure where they go, are wrong.


(I do not always rely on sola scriptura, ( I try by going by the spirit ) while I believe the Bible is important to use, there is just something people cannot say for sure... because it's Yahava, judgement and you have no idea what that person could have been facing at the time they took their life, they apparently felt as tho there is no escape, and perhaps they were decent person who loved Yahava. Then again it could have been a sucidie, from guilt of a past thing they did, and perhaps they never even believed in God.

I dont know for sure, and neither does anyone else... and maybe I am wrong.
 
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Jim C

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And yet... the Lord said this thru the Apostle Paul...

1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man destroys the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


So, if one murders themself, there is no automatic forgiveness of this since the person is dead and can not longer confess and forsake their sin in order to receive forgiveness.

Revelation 21:8
the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

When one commits suicide they are murdering themselves... just like they have no right to murder others, they also have no right before God to murder themselves either.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Those that kill themselves cannot ask for forgiveness and turn away from their sin since they are dead... once one is dead, their fate is sealed.
So then anyone who sins and then is struck by lightning, or a bus, or any of the myriad ways someone can die instantly and unexpectedly, it's "well too bad they're going to hell?"
Nah. I don't buy that interpretation at all.
 

Carl Emerson

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Well, when you commit sin and don't have time to ask for forgiveness and turn away from that sin... you'll be punished for that sin.

So, if you decide to self murder, better do it in such a way to where you can ask for forgiveness and then still be able to turn away from your self murder and cause yourself to not die.

Otherwise... it's curtains View attachment 37134

Do you ever attain to the perfection of Jesus ?

Are you aware of every sin you commit?

Are you always where Jesus would be, and doing what is appointed, hearing the Father perfectly?

When you die there will be sins you have committed that will be un-noticed, someone you didn't speak to, failing to be in prayer constantly, not giving to a need, failing to reject an unclean thought, missing a cue that someone is struggling, a load of behaviours that we consider 'normal' that are not even close to the Holiness of God.

Not to mention all the sins you committed as an unbeliever, many of which are long forgotten.

Now following your viewpoint there is no forgiveness for these sins you are unaware of.

Mmmm... I am glad that His Blood covers all unrightousness.
 

Jack

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Many good people who commit suicide are temp insane. They do not know what they are doing. God understands even if humans don't.
 
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Carl Emerson

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A very close friend of mine was suicidal.

What broke the drive to self harm, was when God spoke to her saying - "If you take your life I will not love you any less."

No more suicidal thoughts or urge...

Praise God.
 

JBO

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Too many think that forgiveness is something that God does (or doesn't do) at each and every sin committed by the individual. That is the wrong view of forgiveness. When one is born again and God forgives his sins, he is forgiven. It is a state of being. Paul uses the term justification to indicate that. He says "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom_5:1). To be justified is to be declared righteous. Those who have received Christ, believed in Him and obeyed the gospel are declared righteous. It is who and what they are.
 

Rockerduck

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A very close friend of mine was suicidal.

What broke the drive to self harm, was when God spoke to her saying - "If you take your life I will not love you any less."

No more suicidal thoughts or urge...

Praise God.
That's right, God takes care of His children. Jesus chose us out of this world. Our decaying bodies have chemicals that change. We loose hearing, eyesight, muscle mass, and more. Also brain chemicals; forgetfulness, absent mindedness, some have serotonin loss. This causes depression. However, the Holy Spirit is alive and working in us.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Therefore we do not lose heart.
Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

 
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Taken

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about Suicide

Suicide is the killing of a life.
Murder is the killing of an innocent life.
Suicide is the permanent solution to a temporary problem.

God has bought, paid for, offered a Gift of Salvation to men who desire to agree to Gods way to receive their gift now, possess their gift now, or receive their gift, on the day of their physical death.

Gods offering, mans agreeing to receive, Gods Word of Promise to Give….
IS a one (God) and one (man) contractural covenant agreement, that once established, once agreed, is not revoked.

Two Steps…
1) belief, is a mans righteousness with Gods Spirit.
2) confession of belief, is Gods gift of salvation unto the man, and Gods Spirit with & in the man.

Rom 10:
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Wondering IF a person who commits suicide is saved or not… IS not the determining factor of salvation.

Did the person, Believe in his Heart to his end? IF so…He is promised to RECEIVE salvation at his end.

Did the person, Believe in his Heart AND Confess his Belief? IF so, He was promised to RECEIVE salvation BEFORE his end.

Everyone who reads, hears, studies Gods Word knows His Offering of His Gift of Salvation.

Only the one man and one God KNOWS, that mans belief in his heart at the moment of that mans end.

The SAV-ed can not lose their Salvation.
The God who SAVE-Is the God who KEEP-s.

Will a Sav-ED man still be accountable, punished, for his own acts of ill will? Sure.

The gift of Salvation, is permanent, YET is not a free pass to commit ill wills and not be accountable for those ill wills.



Glory to God,
Taken
 

Behold

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So, if one murders themself, there is no automatic forgiveness of this since the person is dead and can not longer confess and forsake their sin in order to receive forgiveness.

If they are born again, then they have already become "the righteousness of God in Christ", as Jesus has already paid for their sin.

See, its a false theology, and a Cross denying theology, to teach that Christ forgave some sin, and not all.

A person who has no understanding of Salvation, as the "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice of Jesus".. .will live in 1 John 1:9, vainly trying to do for themselves what Christ said is "FINISHED", from The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

So, a "suicide" is not an unpardonable sin.. Its just a deed often done to relieve incredible suffering.

The OT shows us such a person, who committed suicide.

This is Samson.

What does the NT say about Samson? Its says he is a "hero of the Faith"...
Yet, he killed Himself.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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So then anyone who sins and then is struck by lightning, or a bus, or any of the myriad ways someone can die instantly and unexpectedly, it's "well too bad they're going to hell?"
Nah. I don't buy that interpretation at all.

Maybe you don't understand the difference between someone dying in an accident... verses someone deciding to murder themselves.

Either way, if one was born again... and they turn their back on the Lord and choose to go do sin and they die while doing so... then they go to hell. That's because, they decided to rebel against the Lord!

Hebrews 10:29-31
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

See Galatians 6:7,8

Are you aware of every sin you commit?

Actually yes... the Holy Spirit tells me when I have done wrong and I repent asking for forgiveness and quit doing it as to be cleansed of all unrighteousness according to God's promise (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9)

This doesn't mean I have never sinned in the past or could potentially sin in the future. I do not willingly or knowing do sinful things which is how real Christians should be living as this is being led by the Holy Ghost. Those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

We should not be willing or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christians to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

It's always odd to hear people speak as though doing sinful things is normal and cannot be avoided and they call themselves Christians! clueless-scratching.gif



Many good people who commit suicide

If they were "good" people they would have submitted themselves to the Lord resisted the devil making him flee (James 4:7) and they would not have whacked themselves.


What broke the drive to self harm, was when God spoke to her saying - "If you take your life I will not love you any less."

God loves all those that went to hell.... just because God loves people, that does not prevent them from going to hell.

God so loved the entire world that He sent Jesus to the Cross! And yet, Jesus said the way unto life is narrow and few find it (Matthew 7:13-14)

If God loving everyone prevented people from going to hell... universalism would be true, but it's not.


When one is born again and God forgives his sins, he is forgiven.

When we get born again, all of our past sins are forgiven only.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Going forward if we sin, we must confess and forsake our sin in order to be forgiven and the Lord have mercy on us. All of our future sins are not automatically forgiven which is false doctrine satan has brought in to the church... causing many to fall way and live in sin.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


God cannot be mocked... what we sow IS what we reap....

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For
he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.


Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done


The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
 

Behold

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Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

This verse is teaching that all the Believers "sin" is a thing of the past, as its taken care of by the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

See, "Jesus is the One TIME..... ETERNAL..... Sacrifice for sin".., because "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN...for us".. = the born again.

So, reader, when you find so called '"teachers" who can't understand the word "eternal" and apply it to "SIN", as the verse does, then you are dealing with someone who has not understood the Cross of Christ, that is the...
ETERNAL... forgiveness of all sin.

You're dealing with a deceived Legalist.

Remember, reader...

= "ETERNAL sacrifice" "for sin". "SIN" = plural.......all..........not just some.

A.) All
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Wrap yo head around the part in RED!

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God;

Our future sins are not automatically forgiven... that is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

So... going forward IF one sins... they must confess it and forsake it in order to be forgiven because God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sin sowing to the flesh we reap corruption which is spiritual death as in separation from God.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

Behold

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Wrap yo head around the part in RED!

You certainly do remind me of a member here named (Alt) ..., "Episkopos".

Do you know him?
As he also lives in "North America" as you do...... (That includes Canada, where Episkopos lives)....

Just curious, @Big Boy Johnson


also,.....

Look again.... carefully.....

1.) "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

And then..

2.) "God hath made Jesus to be SIN, for us"..

Now notice carfully.....>"eternal", and "SIN for us".. That is ETERNAL sin bearer.......all sin forgiven for all time.

See those?

Those are teaching that forgiveness of sin, is Eternal, and ALL.

This is the eternal redemption found on the Cross of Christ., = Christ's Holy Blood and Death.

This is the "new Covenant".... The Blood Atonement.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Those are teaching that forgiveness of sin, is Eternal, and ALL.

Only those sins we have confessed and turned away from.

If all our future sins were already forgiven even before we commit them... then we could all go ahead and live in sin and still be saved.... which is the false doctrine of the OSAS peoples.

What Jesus did on the Cross is conditional.... we must confess, forsake out sin and abide IN Christ (see John 15) for Jesus' work to be applicable unto us

What you are saying sounds very close to universalism which is false doctrine not taught in God's Word.