According to Christianity

[cvanwey]

And you are not????

I understand... But please don't get it twisted. I'm observing things in the book which do not appear to jive outside of the book.

I guess, in some colloquial way, one could state logic is circular... Meaning, the premises must logically follow to their conclusion, which could effectively present a circle; since it begins back where it starts.

However, there is a huge difference in stating something like:

'Gravity is true because chapter three says so.' (VS) 'Chapter three states gravity is true, so I tested it myself, and would you look at that, gravity is true after testing, which then confirms the book's chapter.'

Please do not read too much into this random example. I'm just demonstrating how there is a difference :-)

 

[Helen]

You asked where you said it.
Post #184

I did pray, for three decades. It honestly NEVER worked. I still have my missing limb, and I've also read clinical prayer studies, such as:


Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certai... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[cvanwey]

You asked where you said it.
Post #184

You are focusing on the wrong stuff ma'am. And BTW, it says limb, NOT leg ;-) Interpret how you wish, which you attempted to do, and failed...

Please demonstrate truth in prayer, which is the actual message from this post.

 

[ScottA]

You believe. This means you can pray for my limb to grow back :) I'm sure you've prayed for others before right? If you have, did it work? If so, then it will work when you pray for me. If it never did work, then prayer doesn't work; which contradicts your last post ;-)

I'll be waiting. TY!!!!!

You don't know the first thing about what you are purposing. I have told you how it works. You're not getting it. Time to change or give up.

 

[Stranger]

You believe. This means you can pray for my limb to grow back :) I'm sure you've prayed for others before right? If you have, did it work? If so, then it will work when you pray for me. If it never did work, then prayer doesn't work; which contradicts your last post ;-)

I'll be waiting. TY!!!!!

You will be waiting a long time. Healing comes from God. If God does not want to heal, He won't. You say you lost a limb and have prayed for many years but have not been healed. What a surprise that is, with your lack of faith and denial of Jesus Christ. And yet you want healing.

God is not a circus show to do something in order for you to believe. Even if God grew you another limb to satisfy your demand, you would not come to Him by faith.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

You are focusing on the wrong stuff ma'am. And BTW, it says limb, NOT leg ;-) Interpret how you wish, which you attempted to do, and failed...

Please demonstrate truth in prayer, which is the actual message from this post.

I didn't ask the question...you asked where he got the idea that it was a leg.
He just interpreted "limb" as leg.
Arms and legs are limbs...I have never ever heard a toe called a "limb"

You have already been told that trying to "prove" prayer or prove God ...is not what we have to do.
But, God Himself does say- "prove Me now says the Lord, ..."
Malachi 3:10

Again, we walk by faith, not by proof.
Even if I listed the "answers to prayer" that I have had in my life...you still wouldn't believe...

As in Luke 16:31
"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. "

 

[cvanwey]

You don't know the first thing about what you are purposing. I have told you how it works. You're not getting it. Time to change or give up.

Demonstrate truth in prayer. Otherwise, please heed your own words.

 

[cvanwey]

You will be waiting a long time. Healing comes from God. If God does not want to heal, He won't. You say you lost a limb and have prayed for many years but have not been healed. What a surprise that is, with your lack of faith and denial of Jesus Christ. And yet you want healing.

God is not a circus show to do something in order for you to believe. Even if God grew you another limb to satisfy your demand, you would not come to Him by faith.

Stranger

Um, I severely bed to differ. I would drop everything and purely believe without question. But instead, as a now recent growing skeptic, further re-inforced by the fact you know God has not, and WILL NOT, ever re-grow any amputated limbs, for anyone ever, only speaks to one of the many growing failures I see in claimed stated scripture.

 

[ScottA]

Demonstrate truth in prayer. Otherwise, please heed your own words.

I have...but prayer is not between you and I, but with God.

 

[cvanwey]

I didn't ask the question...you asked where he got the idea that it was a leg.
He just interpreted "limb" as leg.
Arms and legs are limbs...I have never ever heard a toe called a "limb"

You have already been told that trying to "prove" prayer or prove God ...is not what we have to do.
But, God Himself does say- "prove Me now says the Lord, ..."
Malachi 3:10

Again, we walk by faith, not by proof.
Even if I listed the "answers to prayer" that I have had in my life...you still wouldn't believe...

As in Luke 16:31
"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. "

You are correct in one statement. Anecdotal testimony doesn't actually prove anything. That is why I certainly probably would not accept your personal testimony, without peer reviewed evidence. Otherwise, every 'supernatural' spiritual contact claim would be validated. Every alien sighting would be validated. Every Lochness Monster sighting would be validated. Every Big Foot sighting would be validated.

You have now spent two emails researching and distinguishing an 'objective' definition to 'limb.' Try placing a portion of that effort in demonstrating my main points?

Otherwise, you are only attempting to address and 'appear' victorious on a very minor and trivial technicality.

So I will re-highlight the main points, which you are avoiding...

1. Address the link I sent, which I know you saw, which demonstrates that intercessory prayer fails.
2. Demonstrate one person in recent recorded history to have an appendage grow back in prayer (including fingers, toes, legs, arms, etc...)

Otherwise, you are obviously avoiding anything fruitful in this discussion.

Thnx, so far, for no contribution...

 

[cvanwey]

I have...but prayer is not between you and I, but with God.

It must be awesome to present unfalsifiable claims with such bliss, or, with such an oblivious nature.

You are also avoiding my request like the plague. This is very dishonest.

People pray for others when they are sick, hurt, or other (physical means) all the time. I see it all the time in life and on TV. I would assume these individual's 'believe' this sort of prayer works. I would also assume you have also prayed for someone to heal physically before as well....

The fact you are not acknowledging this obvious observation speaks to the intellectually dishonesty you are clearly displaying...

In a minute or less, less time it takes to respond to this post, you could pray for my toe to grow back. When it does, you will have removed all skeptism from me. You would then be fulfilling one of God's most important states messages, according to the Bible you fully believe. Which is, to spread the word and to demonstrate truth in scripture.

I'm asking you to demonstrate truth in it's word, by prayer. This certainly does not seem like an unreasonable request, does it?

 

[lforrest]

It must be awesome to present unfalsifiable claims with such bliss, or, with such an oblivious nature.

You are also avoiding my request like the plague. This is very dishonest.

People pray for others when they are sick, hurt, or other (physical means) all the time. I see it all the time in life and on TV. I would assume these individual's 'believe' this sort of prayer works. I would also assume you have also prayed for someone to heal physically before as well....

The fact you are not acknowledging this obvious observation speaks to the intellectually dishonesty you are clearly displaying...

In a minute or less, less time it takes to respond to this post, you could pray for my toe to grow back. When it does, you will have removed all skeptism from me. You would then be fulfilling one of God's most important states messages, according to the Bible you fully believe. Which is, to spread the word and to demonstrate truth in scripture.

I'm asking you to demonstrate truth in it's word, by prayer. This certainly does not seem like an unreasonable request, does it?

What? And deny you the opportunity to receive the reward for earnestly seeking God for yourself?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

 

[cvanwey]

What? And deny you the opportunity to receive the reward for earnestly seeking God for yourself?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

I tried for 30+ years to earnestly seek Him for myself and failed. Not a shred of demonstration was ever given. I know this may be begging for someone to present the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. Or to state, "I was never a true Christian." So please refrain from such nonsense, as I know this is the knee jerk re-action from some... If this does not fit your method of response, I apologize in advance. It's just that I receive such responses all too often, and it is not helpful. I am/was genuine for decades, to no avail... :-/

I'm sure everyone on here has prayed for others. I've witnessed it in church dozens of times. The general consensus is that Christians pray for others. It sounds as if you are saying I need to do it myself. This might mean you KNOW that my toe CANNOT grow back, by using prayer, if you are being perfectly intellectually honest with yourself.

I did/still kinda believe. So now I'm asking others to pray on my behalf, as my faith is wavering. Come on yall.... I know you know what I'm asking for, but no one wants to at least give it a twirl. Please place your money where your mouth is. You have a true seeker right in front of you right now. And you are standing there, on the side lines, and either know what I'm saying demonstrates reality to a severe flaw in the believed concept to Christianity, or are deliberately avoiding an earnest request for spite.

Any takers? It's 30 seconds out of your evening. You could change a life tonight. How 'bout it?

 

[cvanwey]

Correct. He did not answer my question.
He'll be here for awhile and will move on to the next forum.

All questions answered... Again, recently wavering fundamental Christian whom decided to actually read the Bible, instead of just regurgitate what I was taught. Found many things which do not jive in reality. Just being intellectually honest with myself. I wish I could say the same for you.

 

[lforrest]

I tried for 30+ years to earnestly seek Him for myself and failed. Not a shred of demonstration was ever given. I know this may be begging for someone to present the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. Or to state, "I was never a true Christian." So please refrain from such nonsense, as I know this is the knee jerk re-action from some... If this does not fit your method of response, I apologize in advance. It's just that I receive such responses all too often, and it is not helpful. I am/was genuine for decades, to no avail... :-/

I'm sure everyone on here has prayed for others. I've witnessed it in church dozens of times. The general consensus is that Christians pray for others. It sounds as if you are saying I need to do it myself. This might mean you KNOW that my toe CANNOT grow back, by using prayer, if you are being perfectly intellectually honest with yourself.

I did/still kinda believe. So now I'm asking others to pray on my behalf, as my faith is wavering. Come on yall.... I know you know what I'm asking for, but no one wants to at least give it a twirl. Please place your money where your mouth is. You have a true seeker right in front of you right now. And you are standing there, on the side lines, and either know what I'm saying demonstrates reality to a severe flaw in the believed concept to Christianity, or are deliberately avoiding an earnest request for spite.

Any takers? It's 30 seconds out of your evening. You could change a life tonight. How 'bout it?

Did you consider thanking God for losing your toe? Think of how much more time it gives you to seek him instead of running around.

 

[ScottA]

It must be awesome to present unfalsifiable claims with such bliss, or, with such an oblivious nature.

You are also avoiding my request like the plague. This is very dishonest.

People pray for others when they are sick, hurt, or other (physical means) all the time. I see it all the time in life and on TV. I would assume these individual's 'believe' this sort of prayer works. I would also assume you have also prayed for someone to heal physically before as well....

The fact you are not acknowledging this obvious observation speaks to the intellectually dishonesty you are clearly displaying...

In a minute or less, less time it takes to respond to this post, you could pray for my toe to grow back. When it does, you will have removed all skeptism from me. You would then be fulfilling one of God's most important states messages, according to the Bible you fully believe. Which is, to spread the word and to demonstrate truth in scripture.

I'm asking you to demonstrate truth in it's word, by prayer. This certainly does not seem like an unreasonable request, does it?

What is unreasonable is to ask what you have asked of me, when you should have asked it of God. I am not the grantor of miracles, He is.

But, you are not kidding anyone. This is a game to you. Because you do not believe, you attempt to tempt those who cannot and will not be tempted. That time has passed, and playing the same card over and over will gain you nothing. "It is finished." And pretending to be honest, when you have lied about your intentions from the start...is also nothing new.

Not to worry, all your questions and unbelief will be answered in the end (of the world/your life).

Speaking of which...let me ask something of you? What happened before the world was? Answer that...and I will pray for you.

 

[cvanwey]

1 Corinthians 15:12-20 kinda tells us even Paul admitted he was risking everything on his belief.

Everyone risks 'everything' if they have faith and/or belief in a religion. Why? Because all religions claim theirs is right, and all opposing ones are incorrect. You cannot blanket believe them all, with a 'just in case' mentality :-) Risk in belief to a specific moral stated God given code is an obvious risk, if true. Why, because there's a chance your indoctrinated neighbor, whom may be a Muslim, could actually be right. I know, go figure....

So what will you do if you stand before Allah, and have to explain how you were presented with 'evidence', and instead turned the other cheek away from the one true God - Allah?

Save your response.... I already know, 'the Qur'an is a li'e, or other equal blank assertion... But you get the gist...

 

[cvanwey]

Did you consider thanking God for losing your toe? Think of how much more time it gives you to seek him instead of running around.

I know yer just toying with me now... But it still exposes everything I stated in the post, where my main points are being avoided.

 

[cvanwey]

So in other words...you are not, because you didn't answer his question that he put to you.

Therefore you must have only written " Christian" so that you could post on the "Christian only" board if ever you feel to.
I get it....

You are the queen of not answering questions.... Hate to sound juvenile, but 'it takes one to know one...'

Please read the many posts where I state, that I am a Christian, but recently started to actually read the Bible. I find many things that do not appear to reflect reality. I now question. And you are avoiding all of them.

 

[cvanwey]

What is unreasonable is to ask what you have asked of me, when you should have asked it of God. I am not the grantor of miracles, He is.

But, you are not kidding anyone. This is a game to you. Because you do not believe, you attempt to tempt those who cannot and will not be tempted. That time has passed, and playing the same card over and over will gain you nothing. "It is finished." And pretending to be honest, when you have lied about your intentions from the start...is also nothing new.

Not to worry, all your questions and unbelief will be answered in the end (of the world/your life).

Speaking of which...let me ask something of you? What happened before the world was? Answer that...and I will pray for you.

I don't know anymore. That is the honest answer. What is your 'asserted' answer?

Now will you pray for me? Nope? Figured.... And you know the real reasons you won't pray for me :-) Go ahead and hide behind your asserted unfalsifiable claims. Speaking of 'lies.' you stated you would pray for me many posted back if I answered yer last pertinent question regarding, 'did He believe or did He know?'. And yet, you didn't and you still won't after this earnest response.

It's also no wonder you are ending your response with a cosmic threat. 'In the end, you'll get yours' In my case, it's a good thing you have offered NO evidence of this hell you seem to believe in. Otherwise, I might be scared.