Actually Jesus returns twice...

[Scott Downey]

Are you saying the city of Sodom will be burned at the second coming? How many live there? WHat about all the other humans not in Sodom?

This doesn't say what you want it to, and you avoided what I posted because it proves Amill wrong. Gotta love Greek verb tenses.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.


"And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: "

Jesus makes the comparison of His coming again with the destructions of the past for Sodom, and Noah's day, something people would be familiar with. Oh it definitely will happen, to the entire world when He comes. This is what Christ teaches as does all the apostles.

 

[jeffweeder]

Thx for reposting them JW
Always happy to politely discuss differing points of view.

Yes, so far so good, thankyou.

..
re >>>> 1 The 4:16-17
I understand that those caught up (alive & dead) are the saved & sealed by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel

Those who have belonged to God since the beginning time (God knows who they are ) will be sealed and saved by the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ ( Jesus knows who they are ).

The dead not caught up will go to the Great White Throne Judgement

The dead without Jesus and the living who rejected Jesus will experience that eternal judgment on the day the Lord comes to glorify his own.


2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

 

[PeterAndroz]

Yes, so far so good, thankyou.


Those who have belonged to God since the beginning time (God knows who they are ) will be sealed and saved by the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ ( Jesus knows who they are ).


The dead without Jesus and the living who rejected Jesus will experience that eternal judgment on the day the Lord comes to glorify his own.


2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

 

[PeterAndroz]

Yes, so far so good, thankyou.


Those who have belonged to God since the beginning time (God knows who they are ) will be sealed and saved by the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ ( Jesus knows who they are ).


The dead without Jesus and the living who rejected Jesus will experience that eternal judgment on the day the Lord comes to glorify his own.


2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Die rejecting Christ or take the MOTB >> Great White Throne J/M >> LOF (eternal destruction)

 

[jeffweeder]

Die rejecting Christ or take the MOTB >> Great White Throne J/M >> LOF (eternal destruction)

This is becoming cryptic.

Rejecting Christ is the mark of the beast. Complete rejection is unavoidable.

9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ).
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus.

 

[Scott Downey]

Die rejecting Christ or take the MOTB >> Great White Throne J/M >> LOF (eternal destruction)

This is the Day of the Lord here,

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Acts 17
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the [i]Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one [j]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night, Jesus spoke of His second coming this way many times... and there will be a sudden destruction of all the unbelieving and wicked, along with the earth and works that are on it will burn and be dissolved, as they are appointed to wrath. Peter teaches the same as Paul, as does Jesus. We are warned to watch and be sober by all of them.

1 Thess 5

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [b]comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

 

[Taken]

Actually Jesus returns twice...

Jesus HAS numerous “Titles”…
(So do human men.)

It is THE “different Titles”, when used, that Determines and Reveals…the Capacity in which a “works” is being Accomplished, under the Authority of which ever TITLE.

JESUS… (Title examples) Lord, Rabbi, Spirit, Teacher, Truth, Life, Way, Son of God, Son of Man, Christ, Power of God, Wisdom of God, Maker, Lamb of God, Wonderful, King, Counsellor, Prince of Peace, Seed, Everlasting Father…

By, Through, Of the Power, Authority and Preparation of God…
JESUS came to Earth ONCE, in a VISIBLE Fashion “Human men Could SEE”. Called the Look, Fashion “AS a man, called a Son of Man”

ONCE Again, Jesus shall Return to Earth “in that Same Fashion”…”AS a Man”…
For the Express purpose for “All Human to See.”

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Rev 1:
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Has / Does Jesus “Routinely” Spiritually come to Earth, to Human men, “UNSEEN” in His other Capacities?
Yes.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

Actually Jesus returns twice...

Jesus HAS numerous “Titles”…
(So do human men.)

It is THE “different Titles”, when used, that Determines and Reveals…the Capacity in which a “works” is being Accomplished, under the Authority of which ever TITLE.

JESUS… (Title examples) Lord, Rabbi, Spirit, Teacher, Truth, Life, Way, Son of God, Son of Man, Christ, Power of God, Wisdom of God, Maker, Lamb of God, Wonderful, King, Counsellor, Prince of Peace, Seed, Everlasting Father…

By, Through, Of the Power, Authority and Preparation of God…
JESUS came to Earth ONCE, in a VISIBLE Fashion “Human men Could SEE”. Called the Look, Fashion “AS a man, called a Son of Man”

ONCE Again, Jesus shall Return to Earth “in that Same Fashion”…”AS a Man”…
For the Express purpose for “All Human to See.”

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Rev 1:
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Has / Does Jesus “Routinely” Spiritually come to Earth, to Human men, “UNSEEN” in His other Capacities?
Yes.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well, bodily return where every eye shall see Him for those of the world, like they did the first time, then there is only the second time He appears to the world

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Scott Downey]

Peter preaches saying Heaven must receive - hold Him until God says go back
Meanwhile Christ stays by the right hand of God until the appointed time for His return

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.


Acts 3
11 Now as the lame man who was healed held on to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the porch which is called Solomon’s, greatly amazed. 12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the [b]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

 

[Taken]

Well, bodily return where every eye shall see Him for those of the world, like they did the first time, then there is only the second time He appears to the world

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Also… coming WITH Him…ARE ”unseen to human Eyes”…
* Thousands of His holy Angels.
* The saints Raptured / Redeemed / risen Glorified.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever BE WITH the Lord.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

Also… coming WITH Him…ARE ”unseen to human Eyes”…
* Thousands of His holy Angels.
* The saints Raptured / Redeemed / risen Glorified.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever BE WITH the Lord.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, but even they may be visible on the Day.
They certainly will be here....
This is the Day appointed by God where Christ will judge the world

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Taken]

Yes, but even they may be visible on the Day.
They certainly will be here....
This is the Day appointed by God where Christ will judge the world

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I believe… ONCE A human is “Glorified”… THEY can See Spirits (God, Jesus, Angels)

1 John 1:
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

There Also Shall be … human mortal believing men, who are Not mortally killed, not mortally Dead, during the Trib…”called saints” for their committed “belief”… (even as now) …

Pray “FOR”… NOT TO…

Eph 6:
[18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

They such, ( mortal believers ) will “naturally” ( like now reproduce ), and repopulate the Earth “during the 1,000 yr reign.”
It is their “generational offspring”, which will eventually, come against Christ Jesus’ Kingdom… “fulfilling prophecy that all nations will come Against ISRAEL…(the Promised land and Same land of Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CrowCross]

So, do you believe the following verse describes what will happen when the rapture occurs?

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

That's a second coming passage that happens 7 years after the rapture.