After The Rapture

[Timtofly]

Correct - but what does this have to do with abortion - other than we have established that one can not legitimately use scripture to support an anti abortion stance - least not in the early stages .. and certainly one should not be politically active to this effect - trying to get law past - "in the name of God" .. this would be putting words in God's mouth .. big time.

The point is the apostate church in getting a corrupt law into the books because the church is full of sin and refuses to repent so God can heal this nation.

 

[Timtofly]

Of course it is a ritual ? just like communion .. and you are right about the not obeying God .. That is the story of the OT... Joshua 24 tells us that folks were not following "God's Law" with respect to slaughtering babies.

Is ordinance the same as a ritual?

 

[Timtofly]

Now you are out of your depth. Does the soul exist prior to entrance into the womb or not ? or - does God Create the soul - at the time of conception.

Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say

The soul is the mind and emotions. A soul begins when the mind starts to function, and no one can exactly know that point. Without a brain the body itself would not function. No one knows how soon after the brain is in control that the mind starts. But conception is the first step. If all the necessary sequences do not happen then either there is a miscarriage or nothing developed at all. I am pretty confident that God knows exactly when what happens.

The word conceive in English means two things: having a child, and having an idea in the mind. Is that a coincidence?

 

[Timtofly]

The Bible tells us that Satan visits heaven from time to time .. along with the other sons of God .

Who are you to gainsay scripture ?

I said Satan is constantly in heaven, on earth, and in sheol. How is that gainsaying?

Adam was a son of God, before he died in the Garden and God banned him from Paradise. How many sons of God created on day six do you think did not follow Adam in his rebellion?

 

[Timtofly]

You cited one of my favorite Pauline passages .. Galatians 5 as well. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.

Who says Satan is Lawless .. certainly not the story of Job ? .. Clearly he had the permission of "The Most High" - his Father to be present at this function in Heaven .. The advocate has a one on one conversation... with his Father. "How are things Going God asks .. what have you been up to" .. down around on earth abound :) you know the story. Father boats to the son .. have ya seen me servant Job .. Son ribs his father . well yeah dad .. you gave him everything .. try taking that away and see what happens.

The bet is made .. and the terms are set. Satan goes out to do his duty as a tester ... and he has some serious powers .. "Godlike- Powers".

But - Satan does not step beyond God's rules .. Satan abides by them .. and the Son's of God are always shown as "subservient" to the Father. Subordinate to the Father .. as the Early Church believed about Jesus .. for a long long time .. until an evil Emperor changed things - and even after that it took another 400 years for this belief to be stomped out by the sword .. and another 600 years of horror to make it stick .. thus completing the 1000 years of horror.

Deut 32:43 .. the real version .. the one the early Church was using and not that joke of a modern Translation.

O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all divinities Bow to Him, all sons of the divine --- (Sons of God)
O nations, rejoice with His People And let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him.

For He’ll avenge the blood His sons, Be vengeful And wreak vengeance And recompense justice On His foes, Requite those who reject him and the Lord will and Cleanse His people’s land.

The Son's of God are bowing to The Most High .. but also rejoicing and celebrating with him in Heaven.
On a lower level are the nations .. and "His people" meaning the Israelites .. the Angels are on a lower level yet.

I am sure the Advocate was invited to that party as well..

Satan must not have been at this party though Psalm 82 .. Where "El" God of Abraham is seated as the head of the Divine Council .. YHWH is prosecuting the other "Sons of God" - condemns them to death .. and takes over their people .. takes over all the nations of the earth for himself.
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa82.pdf

We know this because Satan is still around in Mark. once again in his role as "Tester" .. a role given to him by the Most High.

Then one day someone has a bad dream about some evil demons and attributes this to the Tester .. Satan gets such a bad wrap .. He is actually the doorman when you get to heaven .. good one too .. like a consierge . gives good advice .. what some of the good vacation spots are .. :)

Satan is an angel. Satan is not a son of God.

 

[Timtofly]

It is not just in my head .. it is in your head as well .. you just can not deal with this reality .. because one of your pillars would be dented .. and if there is the slightest crack in the smallest pillar of literalism .. the whole structure falls. This is not a strong foundation.

A) Children are not to be killed for the sins of their parents .. nor Parents for the sins of their children
B) Children and Fetuses should be slaughtered for the idolatry of others .. Parents - Relatives - Neighbors down the street - other towns folks.

Which is God's word.

Why did you ask if they are God's Word if they are found in God's Word? Can God destroy the wicked or make covenants with His creation? God can do both without human ethics judging God with human terms.

 

[Timtofly]

[QUOTE="Timtofly, post: 866273, member: 8638"

Sorry how does taking something into a stomach effect the uterus? Are you saying they were creating a pharmaceutical drug concoction? Does the passage state they had to wait almost 9 months, 8 months, 7 months, etc to force an abortion?

Its how the morning after pill works - Read the passage .. they give the woman some potion .. say some ritual words .. and this produces an abortion if the woman has been unfaithful.

but - then you have the abortions done a different way - in the case where fetuses have some neighbors or townsfolk down the street who are worshiping other Gods .. Abortion by the sword ..

What do you mean if?

The woman was unfaithful. Or falsely charged. Does God bless sin? David acted very strange when God killed his sin. Was David obeying the Law, or was it too late to administer the punishment?

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't say Satan lived in Heaven .. try to keep things straight and not build strawmen (put words in mouth of the other that the other did not say)

What does Satan have to do with Adam ? Scripture tells us that Satan has been to heaven ... or else where did you think the meeting place where all the Sons of God were presenting themselves to the Most High in Job was .. on top of a high Mountain ?

Why are you making things up rather than addressing what Scripture says.

You said he is not on earth. I did not say you said anything. Satan is an angel. Satan has not been banned from heaven yet.

 

[Timtofly]

You were the one that brought up child sacrifice .. and then turn around and accuse me of arguing over it .. I can recommend a Projection therapy site if you like ?

How do you know when it happens .. Did God sit down with you for tea and tell you when the soul arrives during the process of creation ?

What simple fact am I making too much out of ?

This is a post full of unrelatable gibberish and unsupported claims .. topped off with strawman fallacy.

Now you are just complaining, no?

 

[Timtofly]

It does get in the way. In Genesis you have Satan being punished .. for stepping out side the boundaries .. in the other stories mentioned Satan is a dutiful Son.

Satan is an angel. Satan can only think, but cannot do. So in getting others to do what he thinks is not: "God's plan".

Was Satan punished or the Serpent? The serpent lost it's legs and yet Satan is still a dragon, no? Certainly the serpent did not gain wings, or wrong type of dragon?

 

[Heyzeus]

The point is the apostate church in getting a corrupt law into the books because the church is full of sin and refuses to repent so God can heal this nation.

You need to stop making so many one line posts .. put 3 or 4 into one post.. There is no biblical evidence for your man made perspective on abortion .. Quit trying to fit your man made dogma into the Bible.

 

[Heyzeus]

Why did you ask if they are God's Word if they are found in God's Word? Can God destroy the wicked or make covenants with His creation? God can do both without human ethics judging God with human terms.

You are in serious denial and avoidance mode. This is not about what God is doing .. this is about what we are to do.

Should we follow God's law or not ? and if so .. What is God's law.. now answer the question and quit deflecting in a desperate attempt to avoid reality.

A) To Kill the babies
B) or not to Kill the Babies .. for the sins of their parents.

A) accept the Rule of Law
B) not accept the Rule of Law -- one person not to be punished for the actions of another.

Either start responding coherently or stop posting to me.

 

[Timtofly]

You need to stop making so many one line posts .. put 3 or 4 into one post.. There is no biblical evidence for your man made perspective on abortion .. Quit trying to fit your man made dogma into the Bible.

It is just a perspective of today's church. You are trying to put it into the Bible.

 

[Heyzeus]

The soul is the mind and emotions. A soul begins when the mind starts to function, and no one can exactly know that point. Without a brain the body itself would not function. No one knows how soon after the brain is in control that the mind starts. But conception is the first step. If all the necessary sequences do not happen then either there is a miscarriage or nothing developed at all. I am pretty confident that God knows exactly when what happens.

The word conceive in English means two things: having a child, and having an idea in the mind. Is that a coincidence?

Finally some meat - much appreciated.

The soul does not exist outside the body - that we are aware of - while we are alive. The soul may exist in "Heaven" or some other realm - once the body is dead.

When the soul enters the fleshy vessel .. I am sure God knows as well - but you don't - so quit claiming defacto that it is at conception.

 

[Timtofly]

You are in serious denial and avoidance mode. This is not about what God is doing .. this is about what we are to do.

Should we follow God's law or not ? and if so .. What is God's law.. now answer the question and quit deflecting in a desperate attempt to avoid reality.

A) To Kill the babies
B) or not to Kill the Babies .. for the sins of their parents.

A) accept the Rule of Law
B) not accept the Rule of Law -- one person not to be punished for the actions of another.

Either start responding coherently or stop posting to me.

What you post is your own law.

This is not about me, but your ethics on the subject. You ask questions about things I have no opinions on one way or the other.

 

[Timtofly]

Finally some meat - much appreciated.

The soul does not exist outside the body - that we are aware of - while we are alive. The soul may exist in "Heaven" or some other realm - once the body is dead.

When the soul enters the fleshy vessel .. I am sure God knows as well - but you don't - so quit claiming defacto that it is at conception.

Well it does not happen before conception. As you pointed out, we do not know. So conception is the safest point.

The soul does not "enter the body". The soul is the result of the mind functioning. Show me in the Bible where the soul exist before a body does.

 

[Heyzeus]

You said he is not on earth. I did not say you said anything. Satan is an angel. Satan has not been banned from heaven yet.

The Bible says that Satan is a son of God. Do you not believe scripture ? The "sons of God" in the OT are not angels. Did you not know this ?

 

[Heyzeus]

What you post is your own law.

This is not about me, but your ethics on the subject. You ask questions about things I have no opinions on one way or the other.

I posted God's Law - why are you spewing falsehoods ?

 

[Heyzeus]

Well it does not happen before conception. As you pointed out, we do not know. So conception is the safest point.

The soul does not "enter the body". The soul is the result of the mind functioning. Show me in the Bible where the soul exist before a body does.

If the soul is a function of the mind .. then the soul does not exist in the body until the mind is functioning... so roughly 22 weeks in.

"the safest point" - fine from your personal moral perspective .. but not a good justification for law .. in fact .. such justification for law is down the path to Evil - as per the teachings of Jesus .. which you are clearly unaware.

 

[Heyzeus]

It is just a perspective of today's church. You are trying to put it into the Bible.

another falsehood .. I did no such thing.