After The Rapture

[Taken]

I believe that after the rapture, satan will have been cast down to the earth by that point and there will be an even greater cloud of deception and darkness than there is now as well as chaos and death.

In heaven, the church will be celebrating the marriage supper of the lamb with Christ and at some point during that time the lamb will open those seals, and we know the rest of what happens on earth.

The "Christ's church" of men, those "Raptured", do not "GO TO Heaven."

The WHOLE Point of the Tribulation IS:
Bring into the fold...ISRAEL...
And
Separating....the Divided.

The WHOLE point of The Flood WAS: to Separate ...the Divided.

Luke 12:
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


The Earth was Created FOR A Habitat FOR mankind. That has not changed.
Saved souls go to Heaven.
Quickened spirits go to Heaven.
^ Their dead Bodies go to the grave and rot.

The DIVIDED: is simply:
Those With and Those Against Each-other
Those With and Those Against the Lord

Those IN Christ- Christ's Church, Body of Christ, The Converted...
Whatever term you prefer...
Are those WHO..."followed" THE WAY God provided.

The WAY- is simple.
Hear/(read), the Word of God.
(For That ^ a man is given MEASURES of Gods Gift of Faith)

So the man hears something he doubts, or questions or denies. Normal.

That is a PIVOTAL Point;
A free election...for that man...
1) TO Continue Hearing- Continue receiving increased FAITH?
2) TO walk away and Reject, what he Never was patient enough to come to KNOW and UNDERSTAND?
^ He who walks away, is called "Fallen FROM Faith"

The man who elects to Continue Hearing, Continues Receiving Gods Gift of INCREASED Faith.

It is a man receiving INCREASED FAITH...
That is BEING MADE "PREPARED"...
TO...CONFESS His Belief/Faith.
Repent, Confess-
And Receive Gods Forgiveness- Salvation- Quickening...i.e. CONVERSION.

^ That man is NOW DIVIDED, "FROM" the Unsaved...."UNTO"...their Lord God.

^ That man is NOW "Prepared"...
1) TO DO Works that Glorify God
2) TO BE "Claimed" Gathered, at Any Time, the Lord (according to His Wiil), calls that individual).

•• Bodies "IN Christ" will die- Saved souls and Quickened spirits will depart the body and go to heaven and the body buried...

•• Bodies "IN Christ" remaining alive...(their souls Saved, spirits quickened) WHEN...the Tribulation is Ripe to Begin...

•• Are BODIES, of men WHO specifically, willingly, GAVE their Body's unto Death, WITH Jesus, Crucified WITH Him.

• They ARE unique, Divided Unto the Lord, From ALL Others.

They ARE unique, simply by the WORD "GAVE" their Body unto Death "WITH" the Lord.
They ARE Willing to suffer "persecution", "in" this world, as did Jesus, of Haters, deniers, of people "of" this world, because Like Jesus, they are NOT "of", this world.

The Tribulation is a Time OF great Wrath.
Wrath OF the Lamb.
Wrath of the Devil.
Wrath OF God.

There is NOT one iota of WRATH "Appointed" TO the Lord God...or those WHO are "IN Christ"...

There is NOT one iota of WRATH "Appointed"
TO the Lord God...whose Spirit "IS IN", Those "IN Christ".

The Lord, God Himself....ARE NOT ON THE Earth During the Tribulation!!!

It is Utter ignorance, for a man to claim...
he is IN Christ, the Spirit of God IS IN the man...
And that man, is going to Remain ON Earth during the Tribulation ...and WHAT ... hold Christ and God Hostage (within them)... that the Lord and God....BE ON Earth During "their own Wrath being Cast upon the Earth"?

No!
As Noah Was Saved FROM Gods Flood of Wrath UPON the Earth...

So Shall the "fully PREPARED" (Bodily Crucified, soul Saved, spirit quickened)...Saved From Wrath upon the Earth.

It is Destruction UPON the Face of the Earth!
Man's Habitat!

• Noah was raised UP above the Face of the Earth....TO the Face of the waters.

• Men IN Christ Also shall be raised UP above the Face of the Earth...to the Clouds (water), NOT Heaven.

(Presently Heaven IS Divided/ Separated From Earth (by Water). No man, (excluding Jesus) has come down From, gone To or will Go To Heaven.

It is Future...The DIVISION of Heaven will be removed and Heaven will come down TO Earth.

Rapture is the exclusive raising up of those IN Christ, and Gods Spirit IN Them, Being Raised UP above the Face of the Earth...
while WRATH...
Of the Lamb
Of the Devil
OF God
Is commencing ON Earth.

Why some contest...and Believe THEY, claiming to be IN Christ and Gods Spirit IN them...and THEY Appointed to suffer the Wrath of the Lamb, the Devils Wrath, Gods Wrath ... is but Foolishness...
When the Scripture proclaims the Complete Opposite!

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ...

They deny the Rapture, Point their accusatory finger... but conveniently skirt....
Their "supposed purpose to BE ON Earth , during the Tribulation!"

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Denial and avoidance ?

Speak in complete thought.

WHO is denying WHAT?
WHO is avoiding WHAT?

 

[Heyzeus]

Speak in complete thought.

WHO is denying WHAT?
WHO is avoiding WHAT?

At least I posted a thought :) You posted nothing no thoughts .. Just a passage from Mark which had no relation to my post.

 

[Taken]

At least I posted a thought :) You posted nothing no thoughts .. Just a passage from Mark which had no relation to my post.

And at most, you can accuse.

 

[Heyzeus]

And at most, you can accuse.

You were the one who started out with accusations .. once again trying to project your failings and denial of scripture onto others.

 

[Taken]

"accusations"
..your...denial of scripture....

What Passage?
Where is "my words" of denial?

Pfft, doesn't exist!

 

[Heyzeus]

What Passage?
Where is "my words" of denial?

Pfft, doesn't exist!

You are in denial of scripture - Jesus states on numerous occasions that he is not "The Father" and indicates that he is subordinate to the Father.

 

[Taken]

You are in denial of scripture

You are a false accuser.

- Jesus states on numerous occasions that he is not "The Father"

Wait...are you speaking FOR Jesus?
Why NOT Quote Jesus saying "your words"?

 

[Heyzeus]

You are a false accuser.
Wait...are you speaking FOR Jesus?
Why NOT Quote Jesus saying "your words"??

Actually no .. you have been the one spewing falsehoods ... such as claiming that Jesus equates himself to the father.

You then engage in more falsehood and deception by suggesting I have not quoted the words of Jesus in this respect - something I have done numerous times.

"My God -My God - Why have you forsaken me"
"Take this cup from my hand"

I can give you 10 more .. but better start with these two first :)

 

[Taken]

Actually no .. you have been the one spewing falsehoods ... such as claiming that Jesus equates himself to the father.

You then engage in more falsehood and deception by suggesting I have not quoted the words of Jesus in this respect - something I have done numerous times.

"My God -My God - Why have you forsaken me"
"Take this cup from my hand"

I can give you 10 more .. but better start with these two first :)

I am not responsible for you talking FOR me.
And your Accusations without proof...are simply a poor reflection on you.

 

[Heyzeus]

I am not responsible for you talking FOR me.
And your Accusations without proof...are simply a poor reflection on you.

No .. but you should take responsibility for your own musings ..

Once again you run from scripture - in complete denial of the obvious contradiction between your claim that Jesus is equal to the Father and the words of Jesus.

 

[Davy]

There is nothing scriptural about saying that belief in pre trib will make you fall for the strong dillusion. None. Not even implied.
It is mans conjecture and it makes no sense.

That coming event is EXACTLY what man's Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is preparing the deceived for.

The reason is, because when the coming pseudo-Christ appears in Jerusalem, that... is when the event about the 'carcase' being gathered to wheresoever the fowls are is to happen (Luke 17:33-37; Matthew 24:28). That happens PRIOR to Christ's return to gather His faithful later.

So what is it that Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches you guys about the two grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left behind?

They wrongly teach you to be the FIRST ONE TAKEN, which that one taken of course per the Scripture is about the one take to the false one and his, represented by the fowls that eat on a dead carcase.

You guys won't accept what Lord Jesus showed there at the end of Luke 17, but you certainly will accept those who wrongly preach a pre-trib rapture doctrine. You don't realize it yet, but Lord Jesus was warning His there to NOT be the first one taken, because that is about being gathered to where the fowls will be feasting on dead carcases!

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

 

[Taken]

No .. but you should take responsibility for your own musings ..

Once again you run from scripture - in complete denial of the obvious contradiction between your claim that Jesus is equal to the Father and the words of Jesus.

Good grief man...what is wrong with you?
You repeatedly claim over and over and over and over and over...that I deny Scripture...

Prove it!

Are you ignorant of HOW TO PROVE what you claim?
It is NOT with your words!!!

Quote my Words of denying ANY Scripture.

 

[teamventure]

The "Christ's church" of men, those "Raptured", do not "GO TO Heaven."

The WHOLE Point of the Tribulation IS:
Bring into the fold...ISRAEL...
And
Separating....the Divided.

The WHOLE point of The Flood WAS: to Separate ...the Divided.

Luke 12:
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


The Earth was Created FOR A Habitat FOR mankind. That has not changed.
Saved souls go to Heaven.
Quickened spirits go to Heaven.
^ Their dead Bodies go to the grave and rot.

The DIVIDED: is simply:
Those With and Those Against Each-other
Those With and Those Against the Lord

Those IN Christ- Christ's Church, Body of Christ, The Converted...
Whatever term you prefer...
Are those WHO..."followed" THE WAY God provided.

The WAY- is simple.
Hear/(read), the Word of God.
(For That ^ a man is given MEASURES of Gods Gift of Faith)

So the man hears something he doubts, or questions or denies. Normal.

That is a PIVOTAL Point;
A free election...for that man...
1) TO Continue Hearing- Continue receiving increased FAITH?
2) TO walk away and Reject, what he Never was patient enough to come to KNOW and UNDERSTAND?
^ He who walks away, is called "Fallen FROM Faith"

The man who elects to Continue Hearing, Continues Receiving Gods Gift of INCREASED Faith.

It is a man receiving INCREASED FAITH...
That is BEING MADE "PREPARED"...
TO...CONFESS His Belief/Faith.
Repent, Confess-
And Receive Gods Forgiveness- Salvation- Quickening...i.e. CONVERSION.

^ That man is NOW DIVIDED, "FROM" the Unsaved...."UNTO"...their Lord God.

^ That man is NOW "Prepared"...
1) TO DO Works that Glorify God
2) TO BE "Claimed" Gathered, at Any Time, the Lord (according to His Wiil), calls that individual).

•• Bodies "IN Christ" will die- Saved souls and Quickened spirits will depart the body and go to heaven and the body buried...

•• Bodies "IN Christ" remaining alive...(their souls Saved, spirits quickened) WHEN...the Tribulation is Ripe to Begin...

•• Are BODIES, of men WHO specifically, willingly, GAVE their Body's unto Death, WITH Jesus, Crucified WITH Him.

• They ARE unique, Divided Unto the Lord, From ALL Others.

They ARE unique, simply by the WORD "GAVE" their Body unto Death "WITH" the Lord.
They ARE Willing to suffer "persecution", "in" this world, as did Jesus, of Haters, deniers, of people "of" this world, because Like Jesus, they are NOT "of", this world.

The Tribulation is a Time OF great Wrath.
Wrath OF the Lamb.
Wrath of the Devil.
Wrath OF God.

There is NOT one iota of WRATH "Appointed" TO the Lord God...or those WHO are "IN Christ"...

There is NOT one iota of WRATH "Appointed"
TO the Lord God...whose Spirit "IS IN", Those "IN Christ".

The Lord, God Himself....ARE NOT ON THE Earth During the Tribulation!!!

It is Utter ignorance, for a man to claim...
he is IN Christ, the Spirit of God IS IN the man...
And that man, is going to Remain ON Earth during the Tribulation ...and WHAT ... hold Christ and God Hostage (within them)... that the Lord and God....BE ON Earth During "their own Wrath being Cast upon the Earth"?

No!
As Noah Was Saved FROM Gods Flood of Wrath UPON the Earth...

So Shall the "fully PREPARED" (Bodily Crucified, soul Saved, spirit quickened)...Saved From Wrath upon the Earth.

It is Destruction UPON the Face of the Earth!
Man's Habitat!

• Noah was raised UP above the Face of the Earth....TO the Face of the waters.

• Men IN Christ Also shall be raised UP above the Face of the Earth...to the Clouds (water), NOT Heaven.

(Presently Heaven IS Divided/ Separated From Earth (by Water). No man, (excluding Jesus) has come down From, gone To or will Go To Heaven.

It is Future...The DIVISION of Heaven will be removed and Heaven will come down TO Earth.

Rapture is the exclusive raising up of those IN Christ, and Gods Spirit IN Them, Being Raised UP above the Face of the Earth...
while WRATH...
Of the Lamb
Of the Devil
OF God
Is commencing ON Earth.

Why some contest...and Believe THEY, claiming to be IN Christ and Gods Spirit IN them...and THEY Appointed to suffer the Wrath of the Lamb, the Devils Wrath, Gods Wrath ... is but Foolishness...
When the Scripture proclaims the Complete Opposite!

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ...

They deny the Rapture, Point their accusatory finger... but conveniently skirt....
Their "supposed purpose to BE ON Earth , during the Tribulation!"

Glory to God,
Taken

Glory to God

 

[teamventure]

That coming event is EXACTLY what man's Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is preparing the deceived for.

The reason is, because when the coming pseudo-Christ appears in Jerusalem, that... is when the event about the 'carcase' being gathered to wheresoever the fowls are is to happen (Luke 17:33-37; Matthew 24:28). That happens PRIOR to Christ's return to gather His faithful later.

So what is it that Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches you guys about the two grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left behind?

They wrongly teach you to be the FIRST ONE TAKEN, which that one taken of course per the Scripture is about the one take to the false one and his, represented by the fowls that eat on a dead carcase.

You guys won't accept what Lord Jesus showed there at the end of Luke 17, but you certainly will accept those who wrongly preach a pre-trib rapture doctrine. You don't realize it yet, but Lord Jesus was warning His there to NOT be the first one taken, because that is about being gathered to where the fowls will be feasting on dead carcases!

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

I think the confusion lies in not recognizing that is a post apolcalyptic gathering. We have to remember that some seperation passages in scripture are about the raptuer and others are after the tribulation.

 

[Heyzeus]

I think the confusion lies in not recognizing that is a post apolcalyptic gathering. We have to remember that some seperation passages in scripture are about the raptuer and others are after the tribulation.

and it is all imagery of who knows what - memories from a vivid dream - from a relatively non canonical chapter in the book.
Revelations to me is similar to Nostrodamas or other such seers - perhaps God sent a glimpse of some coming disaster .. but God or his hencement better hurry .. as we are messing up the planet .. and no clear path forward there is.

Not going to need God for the next apocalypse .. we doin it ourselves .. changing our atmosphere .. then there is the biggest enviro threat which is ocean pollution .. followed by industrialization and population which are now politically incorrect to discuss in this Orwellian reality where Blue is now the neocon's and the Anti Environment Party .. and we be suppossed to be leading the world here in NA..

Heat up the place and sun going kill 1/3rd no problem .. droughts .. famine ...

Solution . turn up industrialization .. further increase the pollution to the point where the water 1/3 .. is unfit for fish .. Google "Dead Zones" if you think this is a joke .. nitrogen/fertilizer stimulates the bacteria who use up all the Oxygen creating a dead zone .. this gross seaweed that smells like H2S - anaerobic respiration - is now a plague on the beaches of the Carribean and Florida. No need to wait 30 years for sea levels to rise .. this is happening right now..

Either God or them Ancient Aliens better step in quick .. cause the apocalypse commin .. goona be wars .. and we run out of minor players to mess with .. major players going to be going at it ... each having nukes .. and /or .. biotechnology combined with the new missile technology...

That vision had Nostrodamas ,, Casey,, Patmos Revelations - that's the future and what we be doin to ourselves .. dont' be blaming God for this :)

 

[teamventure]

and it is all imagery of who knows what - memories from a vivid dream - from a relatively non canonical chapter in the book.
Revelations to me is similar to Nostrodamas or other such seers - perhaps God sent a glimpse of some coming disaster .. but God or his hencement better hurry .. as we are messing up the planet .. and no clear path forward there is.

Not going to need God for the next apocalypse .. we doin it ourselves .. changing our atmosphere .. then there is the biggest enviro threat which is ocean pollution .. followed by industrialization and population which are now politically incorrect to discuss in this Orwellian reality where Blue is now the neocon's and the Anti Environment Party .. and we be suppossed to be leading the world here in NA..

Heat up the place and sun going kill 1/3rd no problem .. droughts .. famine ...

Solution . turn up industrialization .. further increase the pollution to the point where the water 1/3 .. is unfit for fish .. Google "Dead Zones" if you think this is a joke .. nitrogen/fertilizer stimulates the bacteria who use up all the Oxygen creating a dead zone .. this gross seaweed that smells like H2S - anaerobic respiration - is now a plague on the beaches of the Carribean and Florida. No need to wait 30 years for sea levels to rise .. this is happening right now..

Either God or them Ancient Aliens better step in quick .. cause the apocalypse commin .. goona be wars .. and we run out of minor players to mess with .. major players going to be going at it ... each having nukes .. and /or .. biotechnology combined with the new missile technology...

That vision had Nostrodamas ,, Casey,, Patmos Revelations - that's the future and what we be doin to ourselves .. dont' be blaming God for this :)

Hello Heyzeus nice to meet you. I appreciate your info on enviro issues that could have something to do with prophecy.
On the other hand, those gathering people for judgement passages aren't all from Rev.
There's Matt 24 that comes to mind.
Also, could you explain what would make Rev less canonnonized? I have heard this mentioned before but no one has ever explained it.
Thanks. Shalom!

 

[Heyzeus]

Hello Heyzeus nice to meet you. I appreciate your info on enviro issues that could have something to do with prophecy.
On the other hand, those gathering people for judgement passages aren't all from Rev.
There's Matt 24 that comes to mind.
Also, could you explain what would make Rev less canonnonized? I have heard this mentioned before but no one has ever explained it.
Thanks. Shalom!

Matt is a completely different document from Rev - Especially in Content but yes . it contains prophecy as well. Revelations is much more detailed .. and from a different perspective.

First off I should say that I am not a literalist .. folks hate that I know . but they should let up as most of Christianity are not literalists.

While this is good in some ways .. as I don't have to fret over a few contradictions here and there .. does no injury to my foundation .. I do have to decide which is the most authentic .. which is more "Inspired" than other and/or which is perhaps allegory and other factors.

As I said .. I like Revelations and believe there may be some inspiration in there.. but ... this book is distinct from other books in many ways .. in tone and so on .. it is similar to other apocrypha .. of which there is much more .. so one must realize that this kind of writing was a bit of a trend at the time .. in conjunction with messianic tradition.

That said .. some of these folks dreams come true - be it Nostrodamas, Cacey, and others.. Some of the stuff in the OT has turned out to be rather prophetic as well - as did the words of Jesus and .. there are some very interesting corrolations in Revelations.

Revelations was one of the last books that made into Cannon... The reason being that it was disputed by many in the Church at the time.
They tosses Shepherd of Hermes, tossed Epistle of Barnabas (after once being Cannon) .. why would we look at Revelations much differently ? .. and at the same time I think there are reasons to look at Revelations differently.

But .. am I going to Put Revelations on Par with Matt/Mark ? No .. not going to do that. for starters it is way further away from the source ..Mark round 60 AD ... interpreter of Peter .. Matt - uses all of Mark but adds other stuff which is thought to be from another early source(s) - possibly the actual Matt or another disciple - or an associate of one of those disciples. Matt written after the destruction of the Temple around 80-90AD.

While I have some doubts about some books which remain in Canon .. like the Pseudepigrapha - stuff written in Paul's Name by another at a late date such as 150AD .. does not really deserve to be in there .. whereas some of the earlier stuff that is not in there .. perhaps should be .. such as the Gospel of Thomas ? Reads like Jesus to me..

but yes .. I worked in the field - projects and research - bioremediation and other innovative technology .. cleaned up many hydrocarbon contaminated sites. The Band Wagon ran towards CO2 and Global Warming .. while this is an issue .. the bigger issue is Ocean Pollution .. and this is not debated by folks who know the industry.. If we wanted we could turn off the CO2 tap - if we had to type of thing.. say 90% reduction or some ridiculous number that is currently unachievable ... but we could ..given a "New World Order" or some such thing.

What we can't do is filter the Ocean :) So that is issue #1 - it is not a garbage can .. and has limited capacity to absorb all the waste we throw into it .. including this fertilizer issue. but this rarely gets discussed in favor of the Hollywood discussion of AGW .. Climate Change is a serious issue .. but good luck surviving if we mess up the Ocean Equilibrium .. the "Lungs of the Planet" -- which produces roughly 60% of our Oxygen .. which we need to be in a very tight range to survive.

#2/3 - Industrialization/Poplulation Growth - Take a person from Africa = eating bowl of rice a day - to a first world nation .. and you have just increased the carbon equation for this person by 36. .. so the equivalent of 36 people in Africa in terms of consumption or Resources and subsequent biproducts of consumption ( CO2 +POllution) .. Eating a piece of meat once in awhile and you up the fertilizer loading .. which we are happily dumping into the Ocean both direct and through rivers and streams .. like no tomorrow .. even in first world nations .. still doing this .. "hand up in the air" Hello !! .. is there anybody out there :) .. other than in the bottom corner on Page 65 of the NY-Times on Sunday .. and the nerdy scientific magasines I like to read ..

We are much better at Persistent Organic Pollutants /Heavy Metals in North America Europe - in the industrializing nations .. not so good ..a very dirty process .. 10 years ago there were 1.4 Billion industrialized .. out of 7 Billion .. meaning a 5.6 left to go .. basically tripling the loading on the surface but much more as industrialization is dirtier per person than the average first world citizen.

10 years later we have roughly 1.8 Billion industrialized .. say double by 2030 getting to 2.8 industrialized. Happy day right .. we only have 4.2 left to go ... Ohhhhh .. noooooo Luke .. you forgot that in this time Population has grown to 8.5 Billion .. so in 20 years we have not made a dent in the non industrialized portion - due to population growth .. and we don't have another 40 years to stop polluting the carp out of the Oceans..

#4 is CO2 - and this is a real issue as well .. just not as important as the first three which get almost no attention.

NGDeal - "We will not export our Pollution problems to other Nations" - Great .. Good Policy.. but but .. then why are you against Pipelines ?????????

Pipeline doesn't increase the carbon equation by one molecule - and in fact it decreases this equation. So one can not argue from the CO2 point. Are you going to use less gas depending on whether the feedstock comes in from Tanker or Pipeline ? OK .. so next year we will use some 20 million barrels of Oil a Day .. every day. and we have to get it from somewhere.

The choice is then "Canada or US domestic by Pipeline" or "Nigeria" by tanker. This is a no brainer .. the domestic option is way cleaner for the Environment .. less pollutive and decreases the carbon equation over getting it from Nigeria .. hands down.

Further .. by getting it from Nigeria we incentivize industrialization .. something we should not be doing .. Leave them to their natural subsistance diet .. and in fact help them to maintain this .. but give them contraception..

This is not PC I know -- but, it is what has to be done .. especially the Industrialization part .. remember 36 x the consumption.

The study looked at China who was (11) at the time saying that if China was to realize first world consumption rates .. world resource production would have to double .. and this is Just China.

There you go.

 

[Davy]

I think the confusion lies in not recognizing that is a post apolcalyptic gathering. We have to remember that some seperation passages in scripture are about the raptuer and others are after the tribulation.

What you just said makes no sense at all.

Jesus declaring what timing He was talking about with that 'taken' idea in Luke 17. In the Luke 17 example He gave for the end, He was definitely NOT speaking of a post apocalyptic event. That idea is silly and totally away from what the Scripture declares...

Luke 17:30-37
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

 

[teamventure]

What you just said makes no sense at all.

Jesus declaring what timing He was talking about with that 'taken' idea in Luke 17. In the Luke 17 example He gave for the end, He was definitely NOT speaking of a post apocalyptic event. That idea is silly and totally away from what the Scripture declares...

Luke 17:30-37
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

32 Remember Lot's wife.

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Hmmm. Luke 17 looks post-apocolyptic because it refers to Christ coming back like lightning in the sky which would certainly be the second coming.

The verses you provided speak of one of the two gatherings that will take place along with the fourwinds of heaven reference in Rev.

However, the harpazo gathering Paul talks about is a seperate event.

Shalom!