All Israel will be saved

[Heb 13:8]

So; where does that prove a rapture removal to heaven?

Answering a question with a question eh. They never learn.

Why not just use the word "epairó" since we'll already have our resurrected bodies. Why did Paul use harpazo. Why be rescued when we don't need to. Why "obtain by robbery" when there's nothing to steal.

 

[keras]

Answering a question with a question eh. They never learn.

Why not just use the word "epairó" since we'll already have our resurrected bodies. Why did Paul use harpazo. Why be rescued when we don't need to. Why "obtain by robbery" when there's nothing to steal.

'They never learn'. this disparaging remark displays your contempt for anyone who challenges your precious rapture to heaven belief. Its far from being a Christian attitude and is downright rude.

Show me exactly when God's people get their resurrected bodies.

As I have already shown, the 'harpazo' of 1 Thess 4:16, is simply a transportation from wherever on earth His people are, to where Jesus is; that is in Jerusalem.

As the OP states, All Israel will be saved, and from the NT we know this means only true Christian believers, ethnic Israelis have no further part to play in these last days, excepting those of the remnant, who accept Jesus.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Show me exactly when God's people get their resurrected bodies.

As I have already shown, the 'harpazo' of 1 Thess 4:16, is simply a transportation from wherever on earth His people are, to where Jesus is; that is in Jerusalem.

First resurrection occurs prior to rapture. So why rescue, why obtain by robbery when God doesn't need to.

1 Thess 4:15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1 Cor 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

[n2thelight]

First resurrection occurs prior to rapture. So why rescue, why obtain by robbery when God doesn't need to.

1 Thess 4:15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

1 Cor 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Still trying to figure out how some can't understand that the dead are already with Christ.That's how He brings them with Him when He comes...

One should be able to see that in the example of Mosses and Elijah standing on the Mount talking to Christ,also with the souls under the alter,as well as the rich man and lazarus....

I'll say it again,the flesh will not rise,as it's nothing but dust!!!!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Still trying to figure out how some can't understand that the dead are already with Christ.That's how He brings them with Him when He comes...

One should be able to see that in the example of Mosses and Elijah standing on the Mount talking to Christ,also with the souls under the alter,as well as the rich man and lazarus....

I'll say it again,the flesh will not rise,as it's nothing but dust!!!!

Maybe you should leave Hollywood out of this..https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Patrick-Swayze/dp/B0030F5W5K/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1479962841&sr=1-1&keywords=ghost

Matt 17 is a vision of the second coming. It's symbolic, just like the fifth seal. And the rich man is a parable about the demise of the priesthood and is symbolic, not literal. Notice here how resting pertains to the grave. Why do you think John used the word anapauó in Rev 6:11...........

anapauó: to give rest, give intermission from labor, by impl. refresh
Original Word: ἀναπαύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapauó
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ap-ow'-o)
Short Definition: I make to rest, give rest to, rest, take my ease
Definition: I make to rest, give rest to; mid. and pass: I rest, take my ease.

nuach: to rest
Original Word: נ֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nuach
Phonetic Spelling: (noo'-akh)
Short Definition: rest

Job 3:11-13 NIV “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest (nuach)

Job 3:16-17 NIV Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest (nuach).

Isa 57:1-2 NIV 1The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. 2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest (nuach) as they lie in death.

Dan 12:13 NIV “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest (nuach), and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

Rev 6:11 NIV Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer (anapauó), until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Rev 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest (anapauó) from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

 

[n2thelight]

Maybe you should leave Hollywood out of this..https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Patrick-Swayze/dp/B0030F5W5K/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1479962841&sr=1-1&keywords=ghost

Matt 17 is a vision of the second coming. It's symbolic, just like the fifth seal. And the rich man is a parable about the demise of the priesthood and is symbolic, not literal. Notice here how resting pertains to the grave. Why do you think John used the word anapauó in Rev 6:11...........

anapauó: to give rest, give intermission from labor, by impl. refresh
Original Word: ἀναπαύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapauó
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ap-ow'-o)
Short Definition: I make to rest, give rest to, rest, take my ease
Definition: I make to rest, give rest to; mid. and pass: I rest, take my ease.

nuach: to rest
Original Word: נ֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nuach
Phonetic Spelling: (noo'-akh)
Short Definition: rest

Job 3:11-13 NIV “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest (nuach)

Job 3:16-17 NIV Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest (nuach).

Isa 57:1-2 NIV 1The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. 2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest (nuach) as they lie in death.

Dan 12:13 NIV “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest (nuach), and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

Rev 6:11 NIV Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer (anapauó), until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Rev 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest (anapauó) from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

Never put the wood in there....The parable was actual explaining what happens when one dies.As for Rev 6:11 they are actually there.

The problem is whats real and what's symbolic that people can't see

I see you did'nt address Mosses and Elijah or are you goona tell me Christ was seeing things?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why should death be any different in the NT than the OT, or are we grasping at straws. Heb 13:8. Jesus never changes.

Job 3:11-13 NIV “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest (nuach)

Job 3:16-17 NIV Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest (nuach).

Isa 57:1-2 NIV 1The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. 2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest (nuach) as they lie in death.

Rev 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest (anapauó) from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

 

[n2thelight]

Why should death be any different in the NT than the OT, or are we grasping at straws. Heb 13:8. Jesus never changes.

Job 3:11-13 NIV “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest (nuach)

Job 3:16-17 NIV Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest (nuach).

Isa 57:1-2 NIV 1The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. 2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest (nuach) as they lie in death.

Rev 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest (anapauó) from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

It's not different,just that before Christ died on the cross they could'nt get in to Heaven as the price was'nt paid.Why do you think He went and preached to them?

 

[n2thelight]

Why should death be any different in the NT than the OT, or are we grasping at straws. Heb 13:8. Jesus never changes.

Job 3:11-13 NIV “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest (nuach)

Job 3:16-17 NIV Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest (nuach).

Isa 57:1-2 NIV 1The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. 2Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest (nuach) as they lie in death.

Rev 14:13 NIV Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest (anapauó) from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

Either you believe as like Christ we rise at death,or you believe in soul sleep,that simple...

 

[Heb 13:8]

It's not different,just that before Christ died on the cross they could'nt get in to Heaven as the price was'nt paid.Why do you think He went and preached to them?

1 Pet 3:19-20 - The Greek text requires that the proclamation was made after the resurrection. (1 Peter 3:18 NIV For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,) (1 Peter 3:21 NIV and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,)

However, the passage isn't speaking of preaching the Gospel. It's talking about Jesus making a proclamation to the disobedient spirits. The proclamation is probably what Peter states a few verses later. (1 Peter 3:22 NIV who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.) Jesus said just before sending out the apostles that all authority had been given to Him Matt 28:16-20 NIV. This is probably what He proclaimed to the disobedient Spirits.

The Greek words that are translated death (thanatoo) and alive (zoopoieo) are Greek participles. The word translated preached is an indicative verb. Death (thanatoo) is a perfect tense participle and alive (zoopoieo) is an aorist tense participle, both are past tense. Greek participles are subject to the tense of the main verb. That means the time element of the participles is subject to the main verb preached (kerusso). In other words, the past tense participles, death (thanatoo) and alive (zoopoieo) are past tense from the point of the main verb preached (kerusso), not to the time of the writer.

1 Peter 3:18-22 NIV - For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

2 Peter 2:4-9 NIV - For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

Gen 6:1-4 NIV When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal ; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Jude 1:6 NIV And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Either you believe as like Christ we rise at death,or you believe in soul sleep,that simple...

I believe we rise at first resurrection and do not walk around as wind in heaven.

 

[n2thelight]

I believe we rise at first resurrection and do not walk around as wind in heaven.

So you believe in soul sleep?

Why is it people think it's wind,Paul said we have two bodies at death the other steps out,not as wind but as a body..

We were spirit before flesh,had satan not rebelled we never would had been made flesh.

Do angels walk around as wind in Heaven?

 

[Heb 13:8]

So you believe in soul sleep?

Why is it people think it's wind,Paul said we have two bodies at death the other steps out,not as wind but as a body..

We were spirit before flesh,had satan not rebelled we never would had been made flesh.

Do angels walk around as wind in Heaven?

Yes I believe in soul sleep, and it looks like I'll be doing your homework for you. No, we weren't spirit before flesh. God breathed His spirit into our flesh.​ Angels are not humans. In regards to Paul...

2 Cor 5:8 - Let's take a look at what Paul is referring to when he says "clothed" and "unclothed". Notice how 1 Cor 15:50-54 is about first resurrection...

1 Cor 15:50-54NIV / Isa 25:8 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:2-4 NIV / Job 1:21 NIV Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

"Absent from the body" refers to what happens when we die. "Present with the Lord" means present with Jesus in a resurrection body (at the Second Coming). The reason so many claim that we are immediately in heaven or hell the moment we die is because they fail to understand the 3rd aspect of the passage that Paul presents: the intermediate state of "nakedness" which is also depicted as being "without a body". This refers to lying dead in the grave with no body, no thoughts, no memories, no knowledge, no wisdom, no praising God, no nothing as we "wait" in a total state of insensibility for either the one or the other resurrection.

The key to understanding "absent from the body and present with the Lord" is found in verse 4 when Paul says, "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened, not that we want to be unclothed, but clothed upon that mortality might be swallowed of life." 2 Corinthians 5:4 KJV

Some say Paul wasn't talking about some intermediate state of nakedness in the grave between being clothed with the mortal body and the immortal, resurrection body, but that he was referring to the "spiritual nakedness" of being a lost soul without the robe of Christ's righteousness.

If that were truly the case, then we would understand Paul to be saying, "For we that are in this tabernacle to groan, being burdened, not that we want to (appear in judgment without the robe of Christ's righteousness), but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

Does the above statement make any sense? It makes zero sense.

What Paul is saying is, "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened, not that we want to be (lying in the grave dead awaiting the resurrection so that we can finally be clothed in immortality and be in the presence of Jesus), but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

In other words, Paul is saying that his and our solution to the problem of the groaning we experience in our trouble filled lives is not the prospect of the rest and respite from that groaning that the grave would provide, but that our desire is to skip that step and be clothed upon with immortality that we may be in the presence of Jesus, though the grave is the unavoidable destination for us where we will have to wait for Jesus to come. It is in this that Paul said that he is confident and willing "to be absent from the body (skip the naked grave part) and present with the Lord."

- Heb

 

[keras]

Yes, Christians will be 'present with Jesus when He comes'. And He comes at His Return in glory, bringing our rewards with Him.
Never 'with Him in heaven', He Returns with His angels, not humans and only then does He resurrect those who have been killed for their faith.


[SIZE=medium]Ethnic Judah, the Jewish State of Israel, is not a body of God's people in addition to the Church, as if God had two separate bodies of saints. The non-Christian Jewish people, are not at present a people of God at all.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]On the other hand, God is not forever done with them, and does not treat or view the ethnic, unbelieving Jews, as He does all other ungodly peoples. He treats them much more severely, because they have the Law and the Prophets, while rejecting the Messiah. Yet at the end of this age, God will take some of the Jews and bring them into the one Body of Christ, with subsequent special blessings to them and their children for one thousand years. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]We can view true believers as Israel while not supporting Replacement Theology. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Pre-tribbers making this accusation, do so to protect their Two People, Two Promises [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]position, vital for supporting their pre-trib rapture theory. That is: when elect Saints are depicted in the Bible as living on earth during the final Week, pre-tribbers must see them as ethnic Israel, rather than Church saints. Why? In order to believe that Church saints are not on earth during the Week. Thus, they wrongly proclaim two separate bodies of saints, and that each one is treated differently according to their different dispensations. So now you know why pre-tribbers invented yet another error, their Dispensation Theology: to accommodate the TP-TP view. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is not enough for pre-tribbers to prove what we already know, that the Jewish people will be dealt with by God in the final Week, and that Jesus will then set up a Kingdom of Israel on earth that He will rule for1000 years. That being true, it doesn't make the ethnic Jews a Body of God's people between the Crucifixion and the Return of Jesus. Jews not joining the Church by faith in Jesus, are not to be viewed as a second Body of God, and ethnic Jews destined to be saved are now and will be, incorporated into the one Body of God: the true Christian Church. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I do not espouse Replacement Theology, because I acknowledge that God still has plans for ethnic Israel. According to numerous prophesies, the overall Plan will first begin with [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]God's [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]wrath[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] against the Jews, which plainly shows they are not saints or the elect, as pre-tribbers wrongly maintain and it is only a remnant who will change. Now, for pointing out this forthcoming judgement/punishment of Judah, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Amos 2:4-5, the pre-tribbers will accuse me, for being anti-Semitic, a false and extremely unchristian accusation! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The wrong and unscriptural belief in a rapture removal to heaven before the wrath of God comes, teaches the Christian people not to prepare for life in the last few years of this age, so the rapture lie will be responsible for much suffering in the Church. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Do not be deceived. God did not "replace" Israel with the Church, but Old-Testament Israel and the New-Testament Church are one, and have always been one. It was the leadership of Israel that was replaced at the Cross, given to the Apostles when taken away from the Sanhedrin/Pharisees, but this in no way means that Jesus started a new Body called the "Church." Old-Testament Israel was the Church, Acts 7:38[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Indeed, the "church of Israel" is a phrase found throughout the Old Testament...over a hundred times...but usually translated into our English Bibles as "congregation or assembly of Israel" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The simple and obvious truth, is that the Christian Church is the one, true Israel of God and they remain on earth to fulfil their God given tasks and destiny.[/SIZE]

 

[Heb 13:8]

Never put the wood in there....The parable was actual explaining what happens when one dies.As for Rev 6:11 they are actually there.

The problem is whats real and what's symbolic that people can't see

I see you did'nt address Mosses and Elijah or are you goona tell me Christ was seeing things?

No, they're not actually there. Moses and Elijah was a vision of the second coming of Christ. Most people have a hard time understanding why visions and parables exist. So you're not alone. So how does blood talk....

Rev 6:9-11 - Some have cited these verses to validate the immortal soul doctrine and the belief that, upon death, people go to heaven. However, this description is not literal, but rather is entirely symbolic. The Bible plainly teaches that souls are mortal.

In vision, the apostle John saw before him a book or scroll sealed with seven seals. As Christ opened each seal (Rev. 5:5), John was shown a preview of an event that would happen in the future (“hereafter” [4:1]). Since John was “in the spirit” as the seven seals were opened (vs. 2), the events he witnessed were not actually occurring at that time. They were heavenly previews of things that would happen later on earth.

Upon the opening of the fifth seal (Rev. 6:9), John “saw under [at the base of] the altar the souls of them that were slain.” Christ had shown the meaning of the seven seals when He was on earth. He explained that the fifth seal symbolizes the coming time of Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:9-28), an event that will occur on earth.

In this vision, John was shown the future, this modern age, a time when one martyrdom has already taken place (during the Middle Ages) and a greater one (the Great Tribulation) is yet to happen. The souls who were “slain” (martyred Christian throughout the ages) were told, in Revelation 6:11, to “rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Those who have died will continue to “rest” (remain “asleep [Eph. 5:14; I Cor. 11:30]” in their graves), until others are also martyred as they were.

The “souls” (dead saints) crying “avenge our blood” (vs. 10) is akin to Abel’s blood (his life [note Lev. 17:14]) crying to God from the earth (Gen. 4:10). Since blood does not talk and neither do the dead (Psa. 115:17; Ecc. 9:5, 10), we understand the meaning to be symbolic, not literal. Therefore, the “souls under the altar” represent those awaiting the future martyrdom of saints.

https://rcg.org/questions/p068.a.html

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, Christians will be 'present with Jesus when He comes'. And He comes at His Return in glory, bringing our rewards with Him.
Never 'with Him in heaven', He Returns with His angels, not humans and only then does He resurrect those who have been killed for their faith.

So why obtain by robbery when He doesn't need to. Harpazo means obtain by robbery. Why obtain by robbery while in our resurrected bodies.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I see you did'nt address Mosses and Elijah or are you goona tell me Christ was seeing things?

Underline: Do you see the connection between Matt 17 and the first resurrection..............

1 Cor 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

noun http://www.dictionary.com/browse/transfiguration?s=t
1. the act of transfiguring.
2. the state of being transfigured.
3. (initial capital letter) the supernatural and glorified change in the appearance of Jesus on the mountain. Matt. 17:1–9.
4. (initial capital letter) the church festival commemorating this, observed on August 6.

 

[keras]

So why obtain by robbery when He doesn't need to. Harpazo means obtain by robbery. Why obtain by robbery while in our resurrected bodies.

I looked carefully at the meaning of 'harpazo'. That word does mean 'taking suddenly or by force', which the Lord will do to gather His people at His Return.
The gross error and addition to the verse you make is, that this gathering is to heaven.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I looked carefully at the meaning of 'harpazo'. That word does mean 'taking by suddenly or by force', which the Lord will do to gather His people at His Return.
The gross error and addition to the verse you make is, that this gathering is to heaven.

Well, you put Matt 24:22 at the end of the 70th week, <-----gross error.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Your whole belief sys falls apart when you try to prove soul sleep is false. Rev 6:11, Rev 7:9.