All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !

[Heyzeus]

Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe the Father is God?

Does't matter what I believe .. as this has nothing to do with what the Text says - or what the early Church Believed.

Sorry but - reality is what reality is - and the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father" The Church did however believe that Jesus was "Divine - A God"

So if the early Church did not believe Jesus was "the Father" why do you ?

 

[kcnalp]

Does't matter what I believe .. as this has nothing to do with what the Text says - or what the early Church Believed.

Sorry but - reality is what reality is - and the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father" The Church did however believe that Jesus was "Divine - A God"

So if the early Church did not believe Jesus was "the Father" why do you ?

You clearly don't want to admit what you believe because you know you contradict the Bible!

 

[Heyzeus]

straight out of the horses mouth

Another poster posted a quote from Luke - which you claimed to be heresy - did I misread your meaning ?

 

[ChristisGod]

Does't matter what I believe .. as this has nothing to do with what the Text says - or what the early Church Believed.

Sorry but - reality is what reality is - and the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father" The Church did however believe that Jesus was "Divine - A God"

So if the early Church did not believe Jesus was "the Father" why do you ?

what part of Trinity don't you understand ?

do you know the difference between oneness and trinitarianism ?

 

[Heyzeus]

You clearly don't want to admit what you believe because you know you contradict the Bible!

I have no problem admitting what I believe - and have done so in numerous threads.

You are the one contradicting the Bible .. Jesus states/ infers numerous times - in plane clear language - that he is not the Father.

 

[ChristisGod]

I have no problem admitting what I believe - and have done so in numerous threads.

You are the one contradicting the Bible .. Jesus states/ infers numerous times - in plane clear language - that he is not the Father.

we are not oneness, modalists, sabellianists

if you say again we believe the Son is the Father I will not reply.

 

[kcnalp]

I have no problem admitting what I believe - and have done so in numerous threads.

You are the one contradicting the Bible .. Jesus states/ infers numerous times - in plane clear language - that he is not the Father.

Then why didn't you answer my SIMPLE questions. They were very simple. How did I contradict the Bible?

 

[Heyzeus]

what part of Trinity don't you understand ?

do you know the difference between oneness and trinitarianism ?

I understand the Trinity - this has nothing to do with the fact that the Early Church did not believe that God was "The Father"

Sorry of the teachings of Jesus contradict modern Trinity Doctrine .. this does not change the fact that the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father".

 

[kcnalp]

I understand the Trinity - this has nothing to do with the fact that the Early Church did not believe that God was "The Father"

Sorry of the teachings of Jesus contradict modern Trinity Doctrine .. this does not change the fact that the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father".

VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS: Is Jesus God? Is the Father God? How many God's do you believe in?

 

[Heyzeus]

we are not oneness, modalists, sabellianists

if you say again we believe the Son is the Father I will not reply.

You keep using terms you do not understand. Trinity doctrine claims that Jesus and the Father are the same substance - "one in the same" This is what the term Homoousious means .. the term that Constantine insisted on .

What part of this do you not understand ? and no one ever claimed you were modalists, sabellinists or oneness.

 

[ChristisGod]

You keep using terms you do not understand. Trinity doctrine claims that Jesus and the Father are the same substance - "one in the same" This is what the term Homoousious means .. the term that Constantine insisted on .

What part of this do you not understand ? and no one ever claimed you were modalists, sabellinists or oneness.

One in substance, essence, nature, being and 3 in Persons. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

I've been Studying the Trinity 4 decades now and have debated every ism and cult there is on the Trinity and the Deity of Christ.

comprehende amigo ?

 

[kcnalp]

I understand the Trinity - this has nothing to do with the fact that the Early Church did not believe that God was "The Father"

Sorry of the teachings of Jesus contradict modern Trinity Doctrine .. this does not change the fact that the Early Church did not believe that Jesus was "The Father".

"VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS: Is Jesus God? Is the Father God? How many God's do you believe in?"
The silence is deafening!

 

[Heyzeus]

"VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS: Is Jesus God? Is the Father God? How many God's do you believe in?"
The silence is deafening!

According to the Bible - Jesus is the Son of God - but he is not "The Father" .. What I believe personally is irrelevant. Ask relevant questions .. and I will answer

Also according to the Bible .. there are many "Sons of God" - and this is what I believe

 

[ChristisGod]

According to the Bible - Jesus is the Son of God - but he is not "The Father" .. What I believe personally is irrelevant. Ask relevant questions .. and I will answer

Also according to the Bible .. there are many "Sons of God" - and this is what I believe

Is Jesus God? yes or no

its a simple question can you answer a direct question ? yes or no

 

[Heyzeus]

One in substance, essence, nature, being and 3 in Persons. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

I've been Studying the Trinity 4 decades now and have debated every ism and cult there is on the Trinity and the Deity of Christ.

comprehende amigo ?

Me too but .. for so much study - you sure do not seem to know much about the Early Church. Your study has not been comprehensive . and is from a one sided perspective.

Even how the modern Trinity doctrine is stated in English is a rancid falsehood..

This is a standard statement of the Trinity "There are three persons within the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons have equal status and are equally divine"

If you have studied the Trinity for 40 years .. tell me where the rancid falsehood is in the above statement ?

I will even give you a hint .. The Holy Spirit is not "A Person"

 

[ChristisGod]

Me too but .. for so much study - you sure do not seem to know much about the Early Church. Your study has not been comprehensive . and is from a one sided perspective.

Even how the modern Trinity doctrine is stated in English is a rancid falsehood..

This is a standard statement of the Trinity "There are three persons within the Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These three persons have equal status and are equally divine"

If you have studied the Trinity for 40 years .. tell me where the rancid falsehood is in the above statement ?

I will even give you a hint .. The Holy Spirit is not "A Person"

I know plenty about the early church and their heresies as well.

One God, 3 Persons- The Father, Son and Spirit all called God


All called God
The Father- Ps 89:26, 1Cor 8:6, Gal 1:1, Col 1:3
The Son- 1 Tim 1:16-17,Jn 20:28,Titus 2:13, 2 pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 28:25, cf Is 6:8

All Creator
The Father- Is 44:24, 1 Cor 8:6
The Son - Col 1:16; John 1:3
The Holy Spirit- Job 33:4, Ps 104:30, Gen 1:2

All Raised Jesus
The Father- 1 Thess 1:9-10
The Son- John 2:19-21
The Holy Spirit- Rom 8:11

All Eternal
The Father- Ps 93:2
The Son- Jesus Is 9:6
The Holy Spirit- Heb 9:14

All Omniscient
The Father- Ps 147:5
The Son -Jesus John 2:24-25
The Holy Spirit- Is 40:13-14

All Omnipresent
The Father- Jer 23:24
The Son -Jesus Matt 18:20
The Holy Spirit- Ps 139:7-10

All Omnipotent
The Father- Rev 4:8
The Son- Matt 28:18, Rev 5:13
The Holy Spirit- Rom 15:19

John 14-16 Holy Spirit distinct from the Father and Son and the PERSONAL PRONOUNS should give you a clue as to His PERSONHOOD.

John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

John 14:23
My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16:5-8
"But nowI am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Matt 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name(singular not the plural names) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

hope this helps !!!

 

[Heyzeus]

Is Jesus God? yes or no

its a simple question can you answer a direct question ? yes or no

I will be happy to answer the question -but can not until you tell me which God you are referring to.

 

[ChristisGod]

I will be happy to answer the question -but can not until you tell me which God you are referring to.

read my previous post.

no more questions answered from you until you answer my previous question.

 

[Heyzeus]

I know plenty about the early church and their heresies as well.

One God, 3 Persons- The Father, Son and Spirit all called God

hope this helps !!!

No .. it doesn't help all you did was avoid the question. And for someone who claims to know something about the Trinity - you should know better than to claim the Trinity is composed of "3 Persons".

This is not what the Trinity Doctrine states .. The Trinity Godhead contains 3 distinct hypostasis "Hypostasis are not "People" not "Persons"

Let me know when you figure out what the Trinity Doctrine actually says.

 

[ChristisGod]

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed, wept, grew in wisdom and stature, was anointed, was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the fifth general council at Constantinople, 533 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

hope this helps !!!