drivel...................
Deal with the plethora of Scripture I posted that says otherwise. The Trinity is irrefutable. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are called God and worshiped by the Jews in Scripture as God.
next.......................
All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !
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Deal with the plethora of Scripture I posted that says otherwise. The Trinity is irrefutable. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are called God and worshiped by the Jews in Scripture as God.
next.......................
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I agree the Word took on flesh and took on the same type of body that we humans have until He died and was resurrected and took on immortality like ours will.
What Jesus didn't have when He was flesh and dwelt among us was the glory He shared with the Godhead when He was the Word. He emptied Himself of that glory, and then when He was about to die asked the Father to bestow that back to Him. So now, he is fully human and fully God.
When we are baptized with the Spirit, we take on the same powers that Jesus had when He was still flesh and filled with the Spirit. But Jesus then took on the full glory of God - the fullness of the Godhead when His glory was restored to Him. During our walking in the Spirit we are becoming glorified, but not to the same degree of fullness that Jesus obtained after the resurrection.
@heyzues
zues the pagan god speaks volumes.................
do you even know what a Christophany is without google rofl
zues the pagan god speaks volumes.................
do you even know what a Christophany is without google rofl
Doesn't help at all .. While Jesus may be a person - a man .. no so for the Holy Spirit or God - The Father.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
of course you don't lol you say you know ECF's and the Early Church yet don't know the Hypostatic Union or the Trinity. So much for your knowledge of church history eh ?
this is like watching a little leaguer facing a MLB fastball rofl............
the deer in the headlights with no scripture to support an argument, just winging it.
So since you refuse to answer one simple question that was asked I will shake the dust off my feet and will no longer cast pearls.................
It looks like our only difference is about His Glory while on earth. I believe it was intentionally veiled and only shown or revealed to a few. Jesus intentionally laid it aside but it was still there as we read in Johns prologue John 1:1-18
Are you familiar with the Kenosis theory/teaching regarding Philippians 2 ?
You are the one winging it .. and twirling around like a deer in headlights .. now projecting your issues onto others.
There is not 3 people in the Trinity Doctrine .. hypostasis does not mean "a person" .. yet you keep repeating this mistake over and over.
Pssst .. someone lied to you. The deceiver perhaps ?
I'm done with you since you have ZERO arguments from scripture and just opinions. I don't have time for certain people who just keep repeating themselves ad nauseum and are incapable of engaging the biblical text even through they falsely claim otherwise.
2 John 1:7-11
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
audios amigo
2 John 1:7-11
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
audios amigo
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Not familiar with it. But I did write something a while ago and I'll paste it here.
Before Jesus came to earth as a man, He was the Word. In other words, He was God, as much as the Father and Holy Spirit are God.
Paul tells us in Philippians 2 that He emptied Himself. In the passage here you are asking about, Jesus is pointing us to God. Even though we know now Jesus was God, He was no longer equal with God. Jesus couldn't do anything of Himself, only what the Father now told Him to do. The Father was now Greater having all power and glory. But that was only temporary while on earth. Jesus wasn't glorified yet, because He was still in the middle of His ministry to save the world and die for it. But after His ministry was completed, and He was about to die for our sins, He asked the Father to restore His glory that He had from the beginning with Him. Now He sits at the right hand of the Father and all His former glory was restored.
So you may ask, if He emptied Himself, how was it that He never sinned, even as a human being? I had wondered the same thing based on my human experience. I know I had no freedom from sin until I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, and all desire to sin left me immediately. And we know that Jesus wasn't baptized with the Holy Spirit until He was baptized in water by John the Baptist and the Spirit came upon Him. That was in order for Him to do the signs and wonders that followed His ministry.
The answer is the Seed. Jesus was conceived with the Seed of God, and had power over sin from that very moment in the womb. We are not God, but the same seed is planted in all of us who have been born again of the Spirit. And that is why this controversial verse is true, as those who have the Spirit in them, can bear witness.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Unfortunately, there are many in the Church that have never turned from their sin in order to be baptized with the Holy Spirit and been literally born again with a new nature. They are merely still in the process of being drawn by the Holy Spirit, but have never taken the step of full surrender. Knowing about Jesus, is not knowing Him, or He KNOWING us. Don't let Jesus say to those who say "Lord, Lord"....And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ But if you are reading this, there is still time, you're not dead yet.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
@CharismaticLady
Misconceptions About Jesus Emptying Himself
There are a number of common misconceptions about what Christ emptied Himself of when He became a human being.
Misconception 1: Jesus Set Aside His Deity
This view holds that Jesus ceased to be God when He came to earth. He gave up His essential attributes of Deity when He became a human. In other words, Jesus was a mere human when He was on the earth and nothing more.
Response
Jesus was always conscious of the fact that He was God. Those who say that Jesus ceased being God when He came to earth attempt to make Him into a fallible human being with limitations just like the rest of us. His knowledge of divine mysteries would have been no better than any other human of His day. If this were the case, then His testimony would carry no real weight. He would not have been competent to speak about any issue with absolute authority.
The Bible does not say that God changed into a human being but rather than God became a human being without ceasing to be God. The Bible says that Jesus does not change.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).
Misconception 2: Jesus Set Aside Some Of His Divine Attributes
This view contends that Christ set aside certain of His divine attributes (such as being all-knowing, all-powerful and everywhere present) when He came to earth. At the same time He kept other of His attributes such as holiness, love, and truth.
Response
Jesus Christ is the eternal God. He enjoys all the rights and privileges of that position. If Jesus was God, as the Scripture teaches, it is hard to imagine that He could somehow rid Himself of these qualities and still be God. The emptying could not have been with regard to His attributes as God, because, by definition, God cannot cease being God. Jesus is God by nature but became submissive in His office.
Misconception 3: Jesus Did Not Know That He Was God
There are some who believe that Jesus did not give up any of His divine attributes while here on earth but rather gave up His divine self-consciousness - He did not know He was God. All the attributes of Deity remained with Him but He simply was not aware of them.
Response
Scripture says that Jesus was completely aware of who He was and what He could do. When arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus stated that He could summon legions of angels and stop those taking Him.
Misconception 4: Jesus Acted As Though He Did Not Possess Divine Attributes
This position holds that Jesus still retained all of His divine attributes when He was here on earth but that He acted as though He did not possess them. While He was still all-knowing, all-powerful, and holy, His behavior did not reflect that He still possessed them.
Response
This would mean that Jesus was deceiving the people. This is inconsistent with the pure, holy character of God. It is not possible that God can deceive people about anything.
Misconception 5: Jesus Set Aside The Use Of His Divine Attributes
This position holds that Jesus gave up the use, not the possession of His divine attributes. While He was fully God during His time here upon the earth He did not use any of these divine attributes.
Response
The New Testament teaches that Jesus did exercise the use of His divine attributes while He was here upon the earth.
Jesus Emptied Himself In Three Ways
Jesus emptied Himself in at least three different ways. First, He voluntarily accepted the limitations of being a human being. Second, His glory was hidden from the people. Third, He gave up the independent use of His relative attributes (all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere present, etc.).
He Experienced The Limitations Of A Human Being
Jesus was still God while He was here upon the earth. However He took upon Himself an additional nature - that of a human. Jesus had a body like other men except it was without sin. He did not set aside any of the attributes that were rightly His. However He voluntarily limited Himself to being a human being. With genuine humanity came certain restrictions. He could only be at one place at a time. He needed to eat, rest, and sleep. He could feel pain, bleed, and die. Before He became a man He had no such restrictions.
Jesus Willingly Humbled Himself
The self-humbling of Christ was not against His will. He willingly took on the limitations of humanity. He never used any of His divine attributes to relieve Himself of the limitations of being a human being.
Jesus' Glory Was Veiled
The glory of Jesus was hidden from humanity during His time on the earth - although it was revealed at certain times. The glory of God was such that no human could look at it and live. This glory that belong to Jesus was veiled. At the end of His life He prayed to His Father to restore His former glory.
I have glorified you on the earth. I have finished the work which you have given me to do. And now, O Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was (John 17:4,5).
After His Ascension His glory was no longer veiled. We read in the Book of Revelation.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. And he placed his right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last (Revelation 1:17).
Jesus had to veil His glory in order to accomplish His mission on the earth.
Jesus Did Not Use His Relative Attributes
Jesus chose not to independently exercise of His relative attributes. This includes His ability to be all-knowing and all-powerful. His moral attributes, such as love, holiness, truth were not set aside in any sense. He did not give His perfect morality but He did give up any independent use of His mighty power.
The key word in this understanding is "independent." On many occasions we find Christ exercising His attributes of omniscience and omnipotence.
Jesus Lived The Life Of A Servant
Jesus chose rather to live the life as a servant who put His trust in His heavenly Father. The following statements from Jesus illustrate this truth.
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner (John 5:19).
Jesus said.
I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus also said.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38).
Jesus chose to submit to the will of God the Father in every word and in every deed. Therefore, any independent desire on Jesus' part to act apart from God the Father was emptied or laid aside while here upon the earth.
Jesus Was Continuously Self-limited
The self-limitation of Jesus was something that He continually practiced. He had to consciously and continuously rely on the Father instead of His own divine attributes. Jesus Himself said.
So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised his eyes, and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that you sent me (John 11:41,42).
He Was Always Guided By The Holy Spirit
As a human being, Jesus chose to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Scripture speaks of Jesus being filled with the Spirit after His baptism.
And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led about by the Spirit in the wilderness (Luke 4:1).
Consequently Jesus performed His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit. He said.
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (Matthew 12:28).
He placed His faith in the Father. He was able to live a sinless life by trusting the Father at all times. Consequently believers are told to "walk as He walked."
The one who says he abides in him ought himself to walk in the same manner as he walked (1 John 2:6)
This could only be possible if Jesus walked in faith as a human being.
Summary
When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative. Don Stewart blueletter bible
hope this helps !!!
Misconceptions About Jesus Emptying Himself
There are a number of common misconceptions about what Christ emptied Himself of when He became a human being.
Misconception 1: Jesus Set Aside His Deity
This view holds that Jesus ceased to be God when He came to earth. He gave up His essential attributes of Deity when He became a human. In other words, Jesus was a mere human when He was on the earth and nothing more.
Response
Jesus was always conscious of the fact that He was God. Those who say that Jesus ceased being God when He came to earth attempt to make Him into a fallible human being with limitations just like the rest of us. His knowledge of divine mysteries would have been no better than any other human of His day. If this were the case, then His testimony would carry no real weight. He would not have been competent to speak about any issue with absolute authority.
The Bible does not say that God changed into a human being but rather than God became a human being without ceasing to be God. The Bible says that Jesus does not change.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).
Misconception 2: Jesus Set Aside Some Of His Divine Attributes
This view contends that Christ set aside certain of His divine attributes (such as being all-knowing, all-powerful and everywhere present) when He came to earth. At the same time He kept other of His attributes such as holiness, love, and truth.
Response
Jesus Christ is the eternal God. He enjoys all the rights and privileges of that position. If Jesus was God, as the Scripture teaches, it is hard to imagine that He could somehow rid Himself of these qualities and still be God. The emptying could not have been with regard to His attributes as God, because, by definition, God cannot cease being God. Jesus is God by nature but became submissive in His office.
Misconception 3: Jesus Did Not Know That He Was God
There are some who believe that Jesus did not give up any of His divine attributes while here on earth but rather gave up His divine self-consciousness - He did not know He was God. All the attributes of Deity remained with Him but He simply was not aware of them.
Response
Scripture says that Jesus was completely aware of who He was and what He could do. When arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus stated that He could summon legions of angels and stop those taking Him.
Misconception 4: Jesus Acted As Though He Did Not Possess Divine Attributes
This position holds that Jesus still retained all of His divine attributes when He was here on earth but that He acted as though He did not possess them. While He was still all-knowing, all-powerful, and holy, His behavior did not reflect that He still possessed them.
Response
This would mean that Jesus was deceiving the people. This is inconsistent with the pure, holy character of God. It is not possible that God can deceive people about anything.
Misconception 5: Jesus Set Aside The Use Of His Divine Attributes
This position holds that Jesus gave up the use, not the possession of His divine attributes. While He was fully God during His time here upon the earth He did not use any of these divine attributes.
Response
The New Testament teaches that Jesus did exercise the use of His divine attributes while He was here upon the earth.
Jesus Emptied Himself In Three Ways
Jesus emptied Himself in at least three different ways. First, He voluntarily accepted the limitations of being a human being. Second, His glory was hidden from the people. Third, He gave up the independent use of His relative attributes (all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere present, etc.).
He Experienced The Limitations Of A Human Being
Jesus was still God while He was here upon the earth. However He took upon Himself an additional nature - that of a human. Jesus had a body like other men except it was without sin. He did not set aside any of the attributes that were rightly His. However He voluntarily limited Himself to being a human being. With genuine humanity came certain restrictions. He could only be at one place at a time. He needed to eat, rest, and sleep. He could feel pain, bleed, and die. Before He became a man He had no such restrictions.
Jesus Willingly Humbled Himself
The self-humbling of Christ was not against His will. He willingly took on the limitations of humanity. He never used any of His divine attributes to relieve Himself of the limitations of being a human being.
Jesus' Glory Was Veiled
The glory of Jesus was hidden from humanity during His time on the earth - although it was revealed at certain times. The glory of God was such that no human could look at it and live. This glory that belong to Jesus was veiled. At the end of His life He prayed to His Father to restore His former glory.
I have glorified you on the earth. I have finished the work which you have given me to do. And now, O Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was (John 17:4,5).
After His Ascension His glory was no longer veiled. We read in the Book of Revelation.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. And he placed his right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last (Revelation 1:17).
Jesus had to veil His glory in order to accomplish His mission on the earth.
Jesus Did Not Use His Relative Attributes
Jesus chose not to independently exercise of His relative attributes. This includes His ability to be all-knowing and all-powerful. His moral attributes, such as love, holiness, truth were not set aside in any sense. He did not give His perfect morality but He did give up any independent use of His mighty power.
The key word in this understanding is "independent." On many occasions we find Christ exercising His attributes of omniscience and omnipotence.
Jesus Lived The Life Of A Servant
Jesus chose rather to live the life as a servant who put His trust in His heavenly Father. The following statements from Jesus illustrate this truth.
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner (John 5:19).
Jesus said.
I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus also said.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38).
Jesus chose to submit to the will of God the Father in every word and in every deed. Therefore, any independent desire on Jesus' part to act apart from God the Father was emptied or laid aside while here upon the earth.
Jesus Was Continuously Self-limited
The self-limitation of Jesus was something that He continually practiced. He had to consciously and continuously rely on the Father instead of His own divine attributes. Jesus Himself said.
So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised his eyes, and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that you sent me (John 11:41,42).
He Was Always Guided By The Holy Spirit
As a human being, Jesus chose to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Scripture speaks of Jesus being filled with the Spirit after His baptism.
And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led about by the Spirit in the wilderness (Luke 4:1).
Consequently Jesus performed His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit. He said.
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. (Matthew 12:28).
He placed His faith in the Father. He was able to live a sinless life by trusting the Father at all times. Consequently believers are told to "walk as He walked."
The one who says he abides in him ought himself to walk in the same manner as he walked (1 John 2:6)
This could only be possible if Jesus walked in faith as a human being.
Summary
When Jesus became a human being He divested Himself of certain rights as God the Son. This can be seen in three ways. First He restricted Himself to a human body with all its limitations. He gave up His position when He became a human being. Second He veiled or hid His glory from the people. Finally, He exercised His relative attributes only by the will of God the Father - never on His own initiative. Don Stewart blueletter bible
hope this helps !!!
What "Argument from Scripture" What on earth are you talking about .. We are talking about the Trinity Doctrine created in 325 AD.
You will not find the word Hypostasis .. in the Bible .. nor will you find the word Homoousois in the Bible .. but - these were words the men used to define our modern Trinity .. and these men did not claim that God was 3 people .. as you are doing .. in fact they would have laughed you out of the room
40 years of studying the trinity and you have no idea what it is all about. Me personally .. I don't believe the Trinity .. but at least I know what it is.
It is not 3 persons .. not 3 people. Homoousois means " of the same substance" The people who created the modern Trinity doctrine believed there were 2 kinds of substances - one which God was made of .. and one which everything else was made of "Man, Trees, earth and so on"
So in saying Jesus was "Homoousois" this means of the same substance as God = Jesus was God - God the Father.
Hypostasis means substance .. and you can either be of the substance of God .. or of the substance of a person. By calling the entities of the trinity "People" you are saying they are not God ... so it is abject absurdity that the folks who created the trinity would have said this .... and in fact they didn't ..
They used the correct terms for what they were thinking
Hypostasis = Substance - as per the Greek definition and
Homoousios - "of the same substance"
Hypostasis does not mean "a person" This is direct heresy.
I think we are saying the same thing...Jesus was made a quickening spirit after resurrecting from the dead, correct?
That was just one of his many types of appearances. Notice that he had holes in him but was not bleeding.
No I'm saying Jesus upon His bodily Ascension was the One who sent the Holy Spirit as He promised His disciples in John 14-17. He is the source of life ( John 1:3-4) and the source of the Holy Spirit( 1 Cor 14:45). But He is still a man, a human with a glorified body that is incorruptible, immortal and imperishable. Jesus said His Resurrected body is flesh and bones. Luke 24:39
hope this helps !!!
who says the glorified body needs blood ?
besides His wounds would be healed but the scars still visible as the disciples witnessed.
either way its a mute point. Jesus said His Resurrected body was FLESH and not a spirit.
It's clear you don't want to answer. I wonder why. Are you JW? Unity? SDA?According to the Bible - Jesus is the Son of God - but he is not "The Father" .. What I believe personally is irrelevant. Ask relevant questions .. and I will answer
Also according to the Bible .. there are many "Sons of God" - and this is what I believe
I get it. You are denying the Jesus is God. The Bible clearly tells us that you are wrong! Jesus is God of the Bible.According to the Bible - Jesus is the Son of God - but he is not "The Father" .. What I believe personally is irrelevant. Ask relevant questions .. and I will answer
Also according to the Bible .. there are many "Sons of God" - and this is what I believe
John 1 The Word was God.
How many "He's" do you need?
John 16:13-15 (NKJV)
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
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I agree with you. I agree with the idea that the body is just a vessel - that the soul can move in and out of .. from both a religious and scientific perspective.
You realize Chris .. that all of this stuff I have been laying on you is just reality - havn't yet told you what My Personal actual beliefs are
after a long .. long trek.. but I digress.... So when your soul leaves your body and goes to heaven .. and you decide its time for a vacation - where your soul will live another life .. in a vessel of some kind .. flesh or something else ... the rule being .. you won't remember your past lives ... sans perhaps a credit that you can win . where you might have a glimmer or two ... of the other side.
but for argument sake .. lets say it is back here on earth .. or a similar flesh species on another planet .. when would you want to enter that vessel. As a single cell ? - or - somewhere else along the process of vessel creation.
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