All things written may be fulfilled

[Truth7t7]

How can Jesus come and stand on the Mount of Olives after burning up the earth when He comes? You believe that He will completely burn up and annihilate the earth when He comes. You've made that clear. So, how can He then stand on the Mount of Olives at that point? You're not even thinking here.

At the 7th Trump In the twinkling of an eye earthly time ceases, mortal will become immortal, judgement will be complete, the heavens and earth will be dissolved by fire, the new heaven and earth revealed, eternity begins, this takes place when the glorified eternal feet of Jesus Christ touches down on the Mt of Olives, the eternal spiritual consumes the temporal earthly

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Truth7t7]

what is your explanation for Zechariah 14:16-21 talking about people being punished for not going up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles? Why would that happen when, as an Amil, you believe that is talking about the new heavens and new earth? People being punished for disobeying God on the new earth? That's ridiculous.

Once Again

How Long Will You Loathe In Your Stubborn, Rebellious, Denial?​

​

Matthew 23:24KJV​

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.​

A "Warning" is seen "IF" no punishment as you falsely claim​

​

Zechariah 14:18KJV​

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

​

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

At the 7th Trump In the twinkling of an eye earthly time ceases, mortal will become immortal, judgement will be complete, the heavens and earth will be dissolved by fire, the new heaven and earth revealed, eternity begins, this takes place when the glorified eternal feet of Jesus Christ touches down on the Mt of Olives, the eternal spiritual consumes the temporal earthly

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

I don't know what you're attempting to say here. Have you not said before that you believe the entire earth will be dissolved and annihilated and then replaced by a completely new earth? Wouldn't the annihilation of the earth include the annihilation of the Mount of Olives?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Once Again

How Long Will You Loathe In Your Stubborn, Rebellious, Denial?​

Stop this stupid over-dramatization. Must you be so childish? Can't you ever discuss things like an adult?

​

Matthew 23:24KJV​

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.​

A "Warning" is seen "IF" no punishment as you falsely claim​

​

Zechariah 14:18KJV​

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.​

Why would it even mention that if it's not possible for anyone to be disobedient? The fact that it says "if' there implies that it's possible for people to disobey during that time. But, that would not be possible on the new earth. This is yet another weak response on your part. You continue to be dishonest with the text in Zechariah 14 just like you are being dishonest with what keeping the feast of tabernacles entails.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't know what you're attempting to say here. Have you not said before that you believe the entire earth will be dissolved and annihilated and then replaced by a completely new earth? Wouldn't the annihilation of the earth include the annihilation of the Mount of Olives?

You fully understand my response, your on the troll now

This takes place when the glorified eternal feet of Jesus Christ touches down on the Mt of Olives, the eternal spiritual consumes the temporal earthly

This present world, changed to the eternal new heaven and earth in the twinkling of an eye, when the Lord's glorified eternal feet touch the earthly Mt of Olives, earth burned up, judgement complete, new heaven and earth revealed "In A Moment, In The Twinkling Of An Eye"!

Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

At the 7th Trump In the twinkling of an eye earthly time ceases, mortal will become immortal, judgement will be complete, the heavens and earth will be dissolved by fire, the new heaven and earth revealed, eternity begins, this takes place when the glorified eternal feet of Jesus Christ touches down on the Mt of Olives, the eternal spiritual consumes the temporal earthly

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why would it even mention that if it's not possible for anyone to be disobedient? The fact that it says "if' there implies that it's possible for people to disobey during that time.

"IF" It's nothing more than a "Warning" no disobedience has or will take place

Your last straw has been broken as you continue to ignore in stubbornness and rebellion God's Holy words

1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[claninja]

It's weak because it causes you to place a limit on when God could destroy Jerusalem. You say it had to occur during one of the feasts. I see no reason for that to be the case.

The Roman armies surrounded and sieged Jerusalem in April of 70ad , right around the time of the Passover, when the Jews were pilgrimaging to the city as required by the law. It’s why there were so many jews in Jerusalem at the time of the siege. That’s a historical fact, not me “limiting when God could destroy Jerusalem”.

Also, Jesus didn't return in 70 AD, anyway. It's utterly ridiculous to try to associate 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 with 70 AD.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Tell me how exactly our Lord Jesus Christ was "glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe" in 70 AD on the day "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ"? What day in 70 AD was that exactly when He was revealed?

IF the language from Paul, in 2 Thessalonians 1, is absolutely required to be interpreted as hyper literalistic, then I 100 percent whole heartedly agree with you here.

However, IF Paul was using language similar to the OT like 2 Samuel 22 or Isaiah 19, then your hyper literal interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 1 is not required. Instead, Paul may be using apocalyptic language in line with the OT.

LOL. You go way out of your way to deny the truth while trying to promote your false preterist doctrine. It's sad to see. The days of vengeance refer specifically to the physical destruction of Jerusalem. Judgment day when unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire has nothing to do with that. What Jesus was saying in Luke 21:22 related only to the physical destruction of Jerusalem, which we know occurred in 70 AD. There is no basis whatsoever for bringing the resurrection of the dead and the judgment into the discussion since they don't fit the context of what Jesus was talking about.

As you stated, we already agree that 70 ad’s destruction of Jerusalem fulfilled all that was written in the OT about the days of vengeance upon apostate Israel.

Beyond that, you can deflect all you want by labeling anything that disagrees with your personal theological frame work as false. But your deflection doesn’t actually address the issue that YOU brought up - YOU stated that being thrown in the lake of fire was Christs vengeance on unbelievers.

You’ve already seemingly argued that the vengeance of 2 Thessalonians 1 is a new revelation, beyond the OT, and thus apostate Israel will face double the vengeance - one that fulfilled the OT oracles in 70ad, and a future one that fulfills Paul’s revelation in 2 Thessalonians 1, which is not found in OT.


so then for consistency sake, is it your position that the vengeance of the lake of fire in revelation, is a new revelation, beyond the OT, and thus apostate Israel will face double vengeance - one that fulfilled all the OT oracles in 70ad, and a future one in the lake of fire, not found in the OT?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You fully understand my response, your on the troll now

Wrong. Is all you have to offer is false accusations? You act like a child on here. I truly don't understand the nonsense you were talking about Jesus standing on the Mount of Olives for a moment and then eternity ushers in or something? It's not a view I've ever seen before. It seems like something you just made up.

This takes place when the glorified eternal feet of Jesus Christ touches down on the Mt of Olives, the eternal spiritual consumes the temporal earthly

So, despite you believing that this earth will be annihilated by fire, somehow the Mount of Olives will be spared so that Jesus can touch His feet down on it for a moment to bring in the new earth? Is that what you're saying?

This present world, changed to the eternal new heaven and earth in the twinkling of an eye, when the Lord's glorified eternal feet touch the earthly Mt of Olives, earth burned up, judgement complete, new heaven and earth revealed "In A Moment, In The Twinkling Of An Eye"!

The earth burned up...except for the Mount of Olives. What nonsense. LOL.

Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Yes, easy to understand that you are making up some serious nonsense here. Let me know if you decide to get serious.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"IF" It's nothing more than a "Warning" no disobedience has or will take place

LOL. Why would it give the impression that it's possible then? It's talking about what would happen in a situation that can't actually happen? That's nonsense. You have to come up with total nonsense to get Zechariah 14:16-21 to agree with your futurist view of Zechariah 14.

Your last straw has been broken as you continue to ignore in stubbornness and rebellion God's Holy words

I will continue to ignore your unholy words and nonsense while accepting God's holy words.

1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

I've already addressed all of this. Just go back and read my previous posts. And you continue to stop at verse 12 because you know you have no way of reconciling the rest of the chapter with your futurist view.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL. Why would it give the impression that it's possible then? It's talking about what would happen in a situation that can't actually happen? That's nonsense. You have to come up with total nonsense to get Zechariah 14:16-21 to agree with your futurist view of Zechariah 14.


I will continue to ignore your unholy words and nonsense while accepting God's holy words.


I've already addressed all of this. Just go back and read my previous posts. And you continue to stop at verse 12 because you know you have no way of reconciling the rest of the chapter with your futurist view.

1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason why you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[rwb]

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



Many people place 2 Thessalonians 1:8 as taking place at a still future coming of Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 cross references with quite a few Old Testament passages, and Luke 21:22 also cross references with some of the same verses, particularly the ones with the word “vengeance” in them, such as Deuteronomy 32:35, Isaiah 61:2 and Isaiah 63:4 to name a few.

Now, 2 Thessalonians was likely written around 51AD to 52 AD, and Luke, well that’s not so certain but I see some say around 58AD and others around 80-90AD. It seems a consensus though that Luke was written after 2 Thessalonians, so it stands to reason that 2 Thessalonians 1:8 would’ve been known information to the writer of Luke when it was written.

If one places Luke 21:22 taking place in 70AD and 2 Thessalonians 1:8 still future, then “all things written” was not fulfilled. I suppose a dual fulfillment argument could be made that 2 Thessalonians 1:8 gets fulfilled more than once but I think that would be a tough position to support for most views.

So, it seems to me most of us should either say all things written were already fulfilled in 70AD, both Luke 21:22 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8, or that neither were fulfilled in 70AD and they are both still future.

Does anyone have any comments or thoughts on any of this?

It really seems to depend on what is meant by "all things which are written may be fulfilled." I'm not inclined to believe this is speaking of all things being fulfilled in 70 AD.

Lu 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Ac 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

 

[rwb]

Right, and preterist think Jesus returned in 70AD, which was future to 51-52AD when 2 Thessalonians was written. The end times were the end times of the old, dead, decaying covenant that vanished in 70AD.

I would argue the Old Covenant ended when Christ came with the Kingdom of God and ushered in a New Covenant. It wasn't the Old Covenant that perished in 70 AD, it was the material/physical structures that represented the Old Covenant that vanished in 70 AD. According to Scripture we have been living in the last days since the first advent of Christ come to earth a man.

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2 Peter 3:3-4 (KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[rwb]

You’re presenting a false premise. I never said the old covenant was valid until 70AD, only that it remained in existence and was practiced, even though it was a dead, decaying corpse.

What are you thinking, that the next sabbath after the cross, the apostles went fishing and ate BLTs for lunch? No way, they kept on observing the law. Look at Acts 21:20, there were many thousands of Jews that both believed and were zealous for the law. According to Biblehub timeline, that was around 59AD, 29 years after the cross. The old covenant didn’t end at the cross, it just became obsolete at the cross.

My friend’s model A is obsolete but he still drives it occasionally. If his car got destroyed then he would no longer be able to drive it. The old covenant became obsolete at the cross, they were still driving it around until it got destroyed in 70AD.

Let me ask you this, was it good that the Jews continued to be under the burden of the Law after the cross or not?

The blood of Christ abolished the Old Covenant forever! It doesn't matter that after the cross the Jews continued to live under the Old Covenant through material sacrifices and offerings until the city and temple were destroyed leaving them no choice but to abandon that which Christ had already made an end when He was crucified. Before Christ abolished the Old Covenant sacrificial system through His atoning blood, there was still hope in the law for those who continued to keep the law. Why? Because they had been taught the only way to find favor with God was by obedience to the Law. Those in unbelief, still without a Savior through the Holy Spirit continued to obey the Law because they did not believe the blood of Christ was the only way by which man might be saved.

Even the disciples of Christ were confused and unsure that only the blood of Christ would save them. That's why we read of Paul continuing to be as the Jews, keeping the Law in the hopes that becoming like them, some of them might be saved. Telling them the promise does not come through the law, but rather by faith of Jesus for them that believe. The law was temporary and was given to lead us to Christ, who justifies us by faith. Since faith has come we are no longer bound under the burden of the law, rather by faith in Christ Jesus we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:22-26 (KJV) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 9:20 (KJV) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

As long as the relics of the Old Covenant continued to stand, there would be a tension/conflict between the Old and New Covenant. For this reason, God used the Roman army to utterly destroy every visible sign/symbol representing God upon the earth. By making an end of the outward symbols Jews, and Gentiles, who believed there was benefit in becoming as the Jews, were no longer torn between that which perished at the cross and the New Covenant in Christ. This through the power of the Holy Spirit in us. The time of reformation came when Christ came to earth a man, it was not delayed for another 30-40 or even perhaps 2000 years.

Hebrews 9:8-10 (KJV) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The things written to be fulfilled when the Roman took out there vengeance the Jews and Jerusalem are written in Daniel 9:26.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason why you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Are you a robot? All you can do is just repeat yourself over and over again. You are not able to actually address anyone's arguments. You have no explanation for how Zechariah 14:16-21 could be fulfilled in the future. Your attempted solution to that is to deny what is required during the feast of tabernacles. You just have your standard robot responses.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Consummation in that verse is referring to all aspects of the 70 weeks will completed when the 70th week ends. The 70th week ends with Jesus's second coming.

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The destruction of this present earth and its heaven will be after the 1000 year millennium, and after the last rebellion, right before the Great White Throne judgment.

 

[TribulationSigns]

My friend’s model A is obsolete but he still drives it occasionally. If his car got destroyed then he would no longer be able to drive it. The old covenant became obsolete at the cross, they were still driving it around until it got destroyed in 70AD.

Let me ask you this, was it good that the Jews continued to be under the burden of the Law after the cross or not?

Many Jews heard the Gospel and were converted after the Cross while the physical temple was still standing. Scripture testifies that “a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith” (Acts 6:7, KJV). The Church grew rapidly and spread beyond Jerusalem into Judea, Samaria, and the Gentile world (Acts 1:8; Acts 11:19–21), all prior to the destruction of the city and temple.

This proves that the ending of the Old Covenant did not wait for A.D. 70, but was accomplished at the Cross. Christ declared, “It is finished” (John 19:30), and by His death He “blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us… nailing it to his cross” (Colossians 2:14). Hebrews affirms that by establishing the New Covenant, God “hath made the first old,” and that it was already “ready to vanish away” while the temple still stood (Hebrews 8:13).


Furthermore, God no longer dwells in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48; Acts 17:24). Believers themselves are now the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:19–22). Therefore, the physical destruction of the Jewish temple and city was not a prerequisite for the Gospel age, the New Covenant, or the growth of the Church at ALL. The decisive covenantal judgment occurred at the Cross, not at the fall of Jerusalem whether Preterists like it or not! Deal with Biblical facts.

Selah!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The destruction of this present earth and its heaven will be after the 1000 year millennium, and after the final rebellion, right before the Great White Throne judgment.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

If the destruction of heaven and earth doesn't occur until 1,000+ years after Jesus returns, as you believe, then why would Peter tell his readers "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness"? He is implying that his readers should make sure they are in right standing with the Lord in order to avoid experiencing the global wrath that he described. He gives the impression that the destruction of the heavens and the earth could potentially happen during the lifetime of anyone reading his words. But, in your view, that is not the case because you say it won't happen until 1,000+ years after Christ returns. Your view makes Peter's words in verse 11 meaningless for anyone who has ever read it up to this point and for anyone who will ever read it in at least the next 1,000 years.

Also, by saying that it will occur after the supposed future thousand years, that means it won't be an unexpected event. Yet, Peter said it will happen unexpectedly as a thief in the night. Your view contradicts what Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:10-12. He indicated that the destruction of the heavens and earth will occur upon the arrival of the day of the Lord, not 1,000+ years later. That lines up with what Paul wrote here...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Paul indicated that "sudden destruction" will come upon those who are in spiritual darkness from which "they shall not escape" when the day of the Lord comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night. That "sudden destruction" refers to the destruction of the heavens and the earth that Peter wrote about in relation to the same event. And, look at verse 4 here. Like 2 Peter 3:11, Paul implies that the destruction related to the day of the Lord could potentially happen during the lifetime of any of his readers. But, you contradict that by having it occurring 1,000+ years after Christ returns instead.

Neither Paul nor Peter indicated that the destruction will occur 1,000+ years after the Lord returns as a thief in the night. They both indicated that the destruction will occur when He comes as a thief in the night. It will happen immediately after He comes, not 1,000+ years later.

That "sudden destruction" of the heavens and the earth when Jesus returns will result in the destruction of "them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ".

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:



Many people place 2 Thessalonians 1:8 as taking place at a still future coming of Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 cross references with quite a few Old Testament passages, and Luke 21:22 also cross references with some of the same verses, particularly the ones with the word “vengeance” in them, such as Deuteronomy 32:35, Isaiah 61:2 and Isaiah 63:4 to name a few.

Now, 2 Thessalonians was likely written around 51AD to 52 AD, and Luke, well that’s not so certain but I see some say around 58AD and others around 80-90AD. It seems a consensus though that Luke was written after 2 Thessalonians, so it stands to reason that 2 Thessalonians 1:8 would’ve been known information to the writer of Luke when it was written.

If one places Luke 21:22 taking place in 70AD and 2 Thessalonians 1:8 still future, then “all things written” was not fulfilled. I suppose a dual fulfillment argument could be made that 2 Thessalonians 1:8 gets fulfilled more than once but I think that would be a tough position to support for most views.

So, it seems to me most of us should either say all things written were already fulfilled in 70AD, both Luke 21:22 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8, or that neither were fulfilled in 70AD and they are both still future.

Does anyone have any comments or thoughts on any of this?

Dual fulfillment is standard with GOD concerning the TWO Comings/Advents of the LORD Jesus Christ
The OT gives clear evidence of such just as JESUS and the Apostles also points us to Noah and Genesis

"70AD all things fulfilled" is a BIG ERROR and LIE that everyone who names the Name of Christ should depart from = immediately.

"70AD all things fulfilled" and "satan's little season is now" is CONTRARY to the GOSPEL

Any teaching/doctrine that is contrary to the Gospel comes from the spirit of error/antichrist = man-made doctrines

 

[Truth7t7]

Are you a robot? All you can do is just repeat yourself over and over again. You are not able to actually address anyone's arguments. You have no explanation for how Zechariah 14:16-21 could be fulfilled in the future. Your attempted solution to that is to deny what is required during the feast of tabernacles. You just have your standard robot responses.

You Run From The Questions, Because You Can't Refute God's Words Of Truth Below

1.) What is the reason why you deny (The Day Of The Lord) takes place (The End) in Zechariah 14?

2.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord returns to the Mt of Olives?

3.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord is seen returning with all the saints?

4.) What is the reason why you deny the eternal river of life is seen flowing from Jerusalem?

5.) What is the reason why you deny the Lord's fire judgement consuming men's, eyes, tongues, flesh, as they stand on their feet? Luke 17:29-30KJV

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.