Amillenialism, True or False?

[Truth7t7]

I'm not particularly sure I want to enter into this with you...not having seen how you jump on people and their opinions who differ from yours.

But, in an attempt to broaden understanding, if not approval, I'll give a very brief description of how I see it!!

The term 'Amillennialism' is perhaps not the best one, but it's what is used. 'Realized millenium' is maybe better. In general, I believe that there is very much a 'millenium', and era (not necessarily a literal 1000 years) where Jesus rules as King in glory. I just think that time is now. We know that on the cross Jesus dealt satan a blow. His defeat is assured, even if not yet realized. And we also know that when Jesus returned to heaven, He was seated at the right hand of His Father and given all power, glory and authority. So it's not just a 'symbolic' reign...I believe that He is reigning right now...spiritually and in a way, physically. Jesus is right now head of the Church. It's He who furthers the gospel through us, and ultimately controls everything. We know that everything good comes through Him, so as the gospel touches peoples lives and the world around us through it, we see the glory of God. His majesty, power and grace.
I cannot reconcile to scripture the idea of post-mil...where Christianity grows until there is a golden era of 'goodness' and then Christ comes. The bible is too plain in the fact that we will suffer...even more towards the end of time. And we are also told that humanity is incapable of 'goodness'. I can't see it happening, and I can't see the Bible supporting it.
As far as Pre-mil (and not the pre-trib kind) goes, I will say that it, after amil, makes more biblical sense then the rest of them, but I still cannot reconcile a lot of the "Jesus second coming" passages to it. As I said in my other post. I really see that the bible talks of Jesus second coming and 'the end' as the same event. The new heavens and new earth as that same event.

So, that's the basic idea...

Excellent Post Rach, I agree 100%!

Jesus Christ Is The Lord.

Truth7t7

Shalom, horsecamp.


And if YOU really knew the Scriptures, you would be CHAGRINED by your own words! They are not "Jewish fairy tales"; they are words of prophecy which Hebrew prophets spoke and wrote down at the command of YHWH Eloheinu, YHWH our God! And, YHWH was not being covert in symbology! He spoke plainly in the Scriptures of a time when Yeshua` haMashiach (Jesus the Messiah or the Christ) SHALL reign over the earth! You not only need to re-read the prophecies of the Tanakh (the O.T., the ONLY BIBLE YESHUA` AND HIS DISCIPLES HAD), but you need to re-read the New Testament passages, such as Romans chapters 9 through 11, Ephesians chapters 1 and 2, and Hebrews chapters 9 through 11! Read them in their entirety and preferably in a single sitting! Read them in a good reference Bible so that you will see just how many O.T. verses were quoted within these passages! And, most importantly, read them for what THE PASSAGES say, not what you think they SHOULD say! Get information FROM the text; don't try to read INTO the text things the Scriptures don't say! You may discover passages such as ...

Jeremiah 31:31-40
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the LORD.
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

35 This is what the LORD says,

he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar —
the LORD Almighty is his name:
36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me."

37 This is what the LORD says:

"Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,"
declares the LORD.

38 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when this city (Jerusalem) will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah. 40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the LORD. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished."
NIV

This passage can't be describing past events, because the city (Jerusalem) HAS been uprooted and demolished in 70 A.D. and again in 135 A.D. This isn't "figurative language," my friend! This is literal and descriptive of a time in the future.

I agree 100%,

Jeremiah 31:31-40 is a literal and descriptive time in the future.

Truth7t7

 

[veteran]

OK, maybe it's time for a bit of Christian history associated with Bible prophecy.

If one does not study Bible prophecy about the scattering of the majority of the seed of Israel, and how they became two separate nations apart from each other, then it will be impossible to understand the Christian structure that our Lord Jesus and His Apostles established in the western Christian nations.

Taking notice of Apostle Paul's journeys we find his preaching of The Gospel to those in Asia Minor and Europe. Early Christian history even reveals Britain as the first nation to receive Christ Jesus and The Gospel on national scale. The Christians at Jerusalem were prevented from creating any political Church structure that took place in the nations north and west to them. Along with the Christian Church in the west kings and queens became established over them with the king or queen becoming the main political head of the then western Church.

Gen 48:17-20
17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
(KJV)

Above is a prophecy from Jacob to his son Joseph's seed, Joseph's sons Ephraim and Manasseh that were born to him while in Egypt. Ephraim the younger was to become "a multitude of nations". Think about that for a moment.

Ephraim and Manasseh became part of the 12 tribes of Israel. The name Israel is the name which God gave to Jacob after he wrestled with The Angel of The LORD for a blessing. The meaning of that name Israel means 'to prevail with God', so it is another name for Christ's Salvation. And the nation of Israel throughout its history has only ever been just ONE nation, certainly not a "multitude of nations", so what gives with that Gen.48 prophecy to Ephraim?

Per 1 Kings 11 forward, Ephraim became the head tribe leadership over the northern ten tribed kingdom of the "house of Israel" after they split from their brethren of the "house of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea. This was by God's Own Hand as written there in 1 Kings 11 & 12. That northern "house of Israel" God would later remove out of the holy lands and scatter among the Gentiles. Ephraim as the head tribe went with them.

Earlier in Genesis God has also foretold Jacob about this matter of his seed becoming many nations, not just one...

Gen 35:10-11
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
(KJV)

What? A "nation" AND a "company of nations" would come from Jacob's seed???

Is this just meant spiritually, like the idea that through Abraham all the nations would be blessed? No! It is NOT just spiritual. It means physical seed of Israel, because it is pointing directly to how the ten tribes of Israel under Ephraim's leadership would be scattered to the west and there become "a multitude of nations", and that involves The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Even in Matthew 21 our Lord Jesus hinted at this within the parable of the householder and the husbandmen and vineyard. In that parable, unbelieving Judah represents the first husbandmen, and God is the householder. In final Judah rejects even the Son of the Householder sent them, and kill Him, and seek to sieze His inheritance. Thus Jesus said in final the Kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a "nation" that would bring forth its fruits.

The objects in this parable relate to the 'vineyard' analogy first given back in Isaiah 5 where God was describing the seed of Israel at Jerusalem. The "house of Israel" represented the 'vineyard' itself. And the 'pleasant plant' represented Judah who was given authority to rule over the vineyard. In Bible history after the split of Israel into two nations, the "house of Israel" represents the ten tribes with the tribe of Ephraim as its head.

It is also not a mistake that Joseph's two sons inherited God's Birthright which is about His blessings and promises to the seed of Israel (1 Chronicles 5). All of God's Birthright except His giving Judah the kingship rule and care of His law, was given to Joseph's sons Ephraim and Manasseh. So per Bible prophecy about the seed of Israel involving God's Promises to Israel, Ephraim is JUST AS IMPORTANT as Judah in that respect, for they both have specific inheritences involving God's Birthright Promises to Israel. Furthermore, God's Birthright does not only involve spiritual promises, but actual promises of the land, wealth, number of seed, power in the earth, etc.

Where in the world has history, after The Gospel was preached to the West, seen the majority of the best lands and economic growth suddenly take off in order to feed the many other poor nations? And where along with that, has provided ambassadors of The Gospel to those other nations? ANSWER: The Christian West.

The Christian West is where the majority of the seed of the "house of Israel" were scattered to, because that is the ONLY place on earth that has fulfilled the prophecies involving Christ's 'vineyard' that would produce the 'fruits' of His vineyard (which is the "house of Israel" per Isaiah 5). The "house of Israel" are the ten tribes of the seed of Israel that God removed out of the holy lands to never return, even to this day. They, along with many of scattered Judah from Babylon, exist as God's Israel in the western Christian nations still today.

So DID Christ actually establish a 'kingdom' here on earth after His death and resurrection? Within the above Biblical prophetic parameters, the answer to that is a huge YES! But is it His literal Kingdom to come after His return? Yes, but NOT completely. Why?

Because as He promised, the "house of Israel" is to be GATHERED with the "house of Judah", BACK to the holy lands of promise during the time of His second coming and future reign over all nations. THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET TODAY. There is still... quite a bit of end time prophetic events that are to play out before... He returns and brings this future gathering of the seed of Israel and all believing Gentiles on Him with them back to the original inheritences God gave Abraham.

First and foremost, the power of God's people is to be removed temporarily, so the fulness of the Gentiles may play out for the very end of this world.

Secondly, a false one is to come in place of Messiah, and he will have a short rule in manner of our Lord Jesus Christ, at Jerusalem. And all nations (including us in the Christian West), will be required to bow to that coming Antichrist. In other words, God is going to allow His enemies and our enemies to rule over us for a very short period at the end of this present world. It will not change who we are, belonging to Him, but it will test our Faith on His Son. Some it will test more than others.

That then, is the opposite of Amil thinking that now since Christ Jesus died on the cross nothing but prosperity and progress can happen for the future on this earth. Thus Amil folks are missing a huge part of Bible prophecy, specifically the part about the very end of this world just prior to Christ's return when Christ's enemies will have power over us for a short time.