An Omniscient God Negates Free Will

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Lapidem

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My guess is that most of your problems would disappear if you just turned off the effing news and go start a garden or something. Or i mean focus on the world, and piss and moan about how unfair God is to you, it is entirely your choice. But at least you might recognize that being pissed at a God that you do not even believe in, let alone have faith in, is a bit counterproductive
I don't watch the news, it's all propaganda now, totally weaponised by government esp the BBC. The license fee should be abolished.
And I'm not p*ssed at an imaginary god at all. I just despair at the people who have been blind-sided by religious indoctrination and who can no longer think for themselves. The more people that can be woken up and freed from those chains the better imho.
 
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bbyrd009

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The Church is a despotic organisation peddling lies and preying on vulnerable people using psychological warfare to bludgeon people into conformity. I'm so glad I woke up to it and escaped
have you though? Really?
fwiw i tell you that they will escape too, in their own time; or at least that is what i have observed
 

bbyrd009

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No not in the least. Those people who suffered that particular anguish are never going to forget it and will be living it over and over even now. Imagine living maybe 40-50yrs with your partner sharing life, love and happiness then suddenly your partner gets ill, starts struggling to breathe and calls 911 and is taken to hospital in an ambulance. Imagine then being told you can't come, you can't see your partner, you know they are on a ventilator in absolute misery and you instinctively know that all they would want is to hold your hand one last time and say goodbye. Instead they spend their last moments in some awful hospital surrounded by strangers desperately wanting to tell their partners and family how much they love them. All because the globalists/elites and the governments they control overhyped a virus with a fatality rate of less than 0.5%. It was utterly wicked and people should be doing jail time for the actions they took
yes, probably, but they wont, probably, and notice how you are truncating my posts now, in order to reiterate your fallacious point, imo

again, they chose that lifestyle, and they chose to go to hospital; what is that to you?
The human body is innately vulnerable to all manner of things, part of the evidence that there is no perfect godly designer involved
well, or so you say anyway, but that manifestly does not make that true. Im 61, had infant asthma, i smoke cigarettes even! Lightly, but regardless, imo you are deliberately being in denial, just like them

you are imo just another kind of believer, and dont get me wrong i have no problems with your set of beliefs, but i also have no time for them
 

bbyrd009

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Again that's more of the utterly wicked actions of the globalists who put profit and agendas over human health and live
and again, you can choose to stay in the world and moan about it, and be very afraid, and blame a God that you do not even believe in, or you can leave the world as instructed
All I can do is point out the stupidity of others who have laid aside rational thought and critical thinking
are you sure? That that is all you can do, i mean. Point out the stupidity of ppl in denial
ok, good luck with that ok

To witness all the atrocities that have gone on in the past 3 years and not question one's own faith and see that there can not exist a God that is both all-powerful and all-loving is an exercise in self-denial.
well, i am not finding this “omni-benevolent” thing anywhere in the Bible, and idt Yah ever professed to that in the least, wadr. And i dont know much, but i do know that the definition of “exist” implies “objective evidence,” so i am not trying to make the One that Causes to Exist exist, anyway

you are free to have a relationship with the universe, in whatever manner you deem acceptable, imo, but understand how that will define you ok
 
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bbyrd009

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It's about demonstrating that the concept of God peddled by the church can not possibly be true and that mainstream religion is distracting people from the true spiritual journey they should be making
well to that i say kudos to you, but ppl are doing this in their own time anyway imo, and it seems like right now particularly we are in a time of scattering stones

i observe that many new believers (including you, i suspect) adopt this what i will call superior attitude, in order to maintain an illusion of superiority over others, and tbh i doubt that i am immune myself, regardless any protestations to the contrary lol
 

bbyrd009

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As a society we can only move forward and evolve when people put aside silly fears, reject the psychological scaremongering and exercise critical thinking.
hey, if i could poof you back to 900 AD, would you go? Point being, why not celebrate how far we have come rather than how far we have yet to go?
 

bbyrd009

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I don't watch the news, it's all propaganda now, totally weaponised by government esp the BBC. The license fee should be abolished.
And I'm not p*ssed at an imaginary god at all. I just despair at the people who have been blind-sided by religious indoctrination and who can no longer think for themselves. The more people that can be woken up and freed from those chains the better imho.
imo it takes no even belief in God to recognize sound advice, and while you can certainly keep tilting at windmills if you like, i am directed to focus on the good rather than the bad, and i tell you that you are free to leave the world whenever you choose, as are they

ps, read Don Quixote lately?
lol
 

Lapidem

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again, they chose that lifestyle, and they chose to go to hospital; what is that to you?
Lots of people choose to be treated in hospitals but they don't expect to be denied access to their partners whilst they are dying! This situation and the Orwellian Authoritarian controls that were ushered in should concern everybody because if we ignore it we'll all just get more of the same.

you are imo just another kind of believer, and dont get me wrong i have no problems with your set of beliefs, but i also have no time for them
You seem to be making plenty of time !
 
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Lapidem

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and again, you can choose to stay in the world and moan about it, and be very afraid, and blame a God that you do not even believe in, or you can leave the world as instructed
Where am I blaming any God? I'm repeatedly highlighting the fallacy of the Christian concept of the all-loving all-powerful God.

well, i am not finding this “omni-benevolent” thing anywhere in the Bible, and idt Yah ever professed to that in the least, wadr. And i dont know much, but i do know that the definition of “exist” implies “objective evidence,” so i am not trying to make the One that Causes to Exist exist, anyway

Psalm 100:5

For the Lord is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.

Psalm 145:17

The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.

1 John 4:8

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

More here

you are free to have a relationship with the universe, in whatever manner you deem acceptable, imo, but understand how that will define you ok

Nobody is free
 

Lapidem

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well to that i say kudos to you, but ppl are doing this in their own time anyway imo, and it seems like right now particularly we are in a time of scattering stones

i observe that many new believers (including you, i suspect) adopt this what i will call superior attitude, in order to maintain an illusion of superiority over others, and tbh i doubt that i am immune myself, regardless any protestations to the contrary lol
I have no idea what you are on about here. I'm not a new believer. I'm quite the opposite. I don't believe the Christian religion and associated doctrine.
 

Lapidem

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and i tell you that you are free to leave the world whenever you choose, as are they
You are mistaken. You can't leave the world. You can terminate your current form but you will simply be recycled into another form as you have been doing since the universe began. You are not free. You are trapped.
 

Gottservant

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Actually in many cases yes I would. Most particularly with women. The practice of mammography has such huge bad press now that I doubt it can go on much longer. The Swiss Medical Board a few years ago recommended that:

"no new mammography screening programmes should be introduced in Switzerland and that the existing ones should be phased out."

This would be the subject for a thread of its own but the bottom line for me is that the medical industry has long since become the front line sales force for Pharmaceuticals and I would touch the industry with a barge pole unless in the direst emergency.
Yes, but "you would not" in principle. If the example is flawed, it is because you have tinkered with the context in which it was described. If you don't trust a physician, you find another one - you don't just give up. The point is, if something requires expertise, (at some point) you trust expertise.

In Jesus' case, you are asserting that "sin" is God's fault (you weren't free, so it must be God), but you are denying that Jesus paid the price for it (He had no spiritual will with which to pay). Well you can't have your cake and eat it too, at some point, you are going to suffer the consequences of sin - and if you don't identify a spiritual will (a will that has been redeemed by the Lord's sacrifice) you will die that way.

So I say again if a doctor says to you "you have cancer" you don't reply "you're just saying that to get me to pay for an operation"

I didn't say "every doctor"; I didn't say "ignorable cancer"; I didn't say "more and more operations".
 

Lapidem

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Yes, but "you would not" in principle. If the example is flawed, it is because you have tinkered with the context in which it was described. If you don't trust a physician, you find another one - you don't just give up. The point is, if something requires expertise, (at some point) you trust expertise.
Not sure what this has to do with the notion of "sin" which you initially replied to. I stated that sin is an invention of the church which is needed as a psychological mechanism/trick to make people become voluntarily vulnerable and thus be able to exploit that vulnerability.
There are no "experts" in regards to this save for the experts in psychological tricks who dreamt the whole thing up from the outset.

In Jesus' case, you are asserting that "sin" is God's fault (you weren't free, so it must be God),
I'm asserting that sin is a fictitious invention used by the church/mainstream religion in order to be able to exploit people.


but you are denying that Jesus paid the price for it (He had no spiritual will with which to pay). Well you can't have your cake and eat it too, at some point, you are going to suffer the consequences of sin - and if you don't identify a spiritual will (a will that has been redeemed by the Lord's sacrifice) you will die that way.
You can't pay the price for something that doesn't exist ! The rest of your spiel there is just the defacto psychological scaremongering used by the church and mainstream religion. Repent or you will die, eternal hell etc etc.

So I say again if a doctor says to you "you have cancer" you don't reply "you're just saying that to get me to pay for an operation"

I didn't say "every doctor"; I didn't say "ignorable cancer"; I didn't say "more and more operations".
I say again. NO I would not believe a doctor who says "you have cancer". I know that thousands of innocent people are duped by such words from unscrupulous doctors doing the bidding of Pharmaceuticals. They begin with "Oh dear, the scan has identified a "mass" of some kind" which then instigates the terror and scaremongering psychologically. Once a person has been frightened enough they will then do whatever the doctor then tells them too. They will volunteer for an invasive biopsy likely as the next stage. At no point did they consider whether the "mass" was in any way a problem, or likely to become a problem. For millions of people little masses sit in our bodies all our lives and cause absolutely no issues. There is NOTHING wrong with having some kind of mass, in fact most of us likely have them and don't realise. It's the knowing and the associated brutal scaremongering by the medical industry that frightens people into having treatments they never ever needed and horrific operations like mastectomies all simply because of far and that's a big business for the industry. The practice of scans is simply the invitation to come and let the industry scare the living daylights out of you so you will voluntarily start on given pathways off treatment. It's rather like having nothing at all wrong with your car, but then taking it to a garage and letting a mechanic lift the bonnet to see if there's anything he can find wrong with it or invent. Such unscrupulous people love that, they lift the bonnet, shake their heads and say "oh dear madam, it looks bad, you're going to need X, Y and Z at a cost of £1000s".
 
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Gottservant

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Not sure what this has to do with the notion of "sin" which you initially replied to. I stated that sin is an invention of the church which is needed as a psychological mechanism/trick to make people become voluntarily vulnerable and thus be able to exploit that vulnerability.
There are no "experts" in regards to this save for the experts in psychological tricks who dreamt the whole thing up from the outset.


I'm asserting that sin is a fictitious invention used by the church/mainstream religion in order to be able to exploit people.



You can't pay the price for something that doesn't exist !
Your sin doesn't exist? Are you proud it doesn't exist?
I say again. NO I would not believe a doctor who says "you have cancer". Such unscrupulous people love that, they lift the bonnet, shake their heads and say "oh dear madam, it looks bad, you're going to need X, Y and Z at a cost of £1000s".
I would say you are being obstinate for the sake of it.

Yes, you need to operate with caution, but not blind caution - you're telling me if you had cancer, there isn't a doctor in the world that could assess it correctly?
 

Lapidem

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Your sin doesn't exist? Are you proud it doesn't exist?
Your statement has no meaning.

I would say you are being obstinate for the sake of it.
Nope I'm simply being realistic and rational given the research I've done over the past 10 years

Yes, you need to operate with caution, but not blind caution - you're telling me if you had cancer, there isn't a doctor in the world that could assess it correctly?
No I didn't say that at all. I'm saying that the medical industry has a very vested financial interest in telling people they MIGHT have cancer, they COULD have cancer and leading them onto a pathway of treatment. I believe they have known simple treatments for cancer for years but won't give it to the world because that would eradicate huge income streams. The notion of "lets beat cancer" is imo an utterly sick strap line. I accordingly refuse to support any and all cancer charities who are obviously making lots of money from this situation.

Healthy people do not make billions for Pharmaceuticals who are now about to take over the world.
 
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Gottservant

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Your statement has no meaning.


Nope I'm simply being realistic and rational given the research I've done over the past 10 years


No I didn't say that at all. I'm saying that the medical industry has a very vested financial interest in telling people they MIGHT have cancer, they COULD have cancer and leading them onto a pathway of treatment. I believe they have known simple treatments for cancer for years but won't give it to the world because that would eradicate huge income streams. The notion of "lets beat cancer" is imo an utterly sick strap line. I accordingly refuse to support any and all cancer charities who are obviously making lots of money from this situation.

Healthy people do not make billions for Pharmaceuticals who are now about to take over the world.
Since you have abandoned rationality, my only recourse is to frustrate you, by not replying further.
 

Lapidem

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Since you have abandoned rationality, my only recourse is to frustrate you, by not replying further.

It's rationality and researching the evidence that lead me to my current position. Tat's how I know that Mammography has done more harm to women than it has benefit them and consequently why the Swiss Medical Board wanted it stopped. I sense you're not ready for such truths which I realise are hard for people to take on board when they've been conditioned for years to believe the medical industry is an absolute authority. It's a state of mind I'm afraid that requires "big thinking", the ability to contemplate that there might be horrendous wrongs being perpetrated on a grand scale. Lot's of people just can't get there, just like they can't contemplate that the BBC might tell lies and put out propaganda. They just soak it all up as gospel truth. I hope you come to the truth before its too late.
 
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bbyrd009

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You are mistaken. You can't leave the world. You can terminate your current form but you will simply be recycled into another form as you have been doing since the universe began. You are not free. You are trapped.
i think "leave the world" is a mental operation, not meant to be literal?
 

bbyrd009

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Lots of people choose to be treated in hospitals but they don't expect to be denied access to their partners whilst they are dying! This situation and the Orwellian Authoritarian controls that were ushered in should concern everybody because if we ignore it we'll all just get more of the same.
well, you wouldnt catch me in one

I'm repeatedly highlighting the fallacy of the Christian concept of the all-loving all-powerful God.
ha you might think that is what you are doing, yes
but you will simply be recycled into another form as you have been doing since the universe began
meh, i doubt it, but who knows? not me
You are not free. You are trapped.
not seeing how life could get any better from here tbh, but ok
I have no idea what you are on about here. I'm not a new believer. I'm quite the opposite. I don't believe the Christian religion and associated doctrine.
well, i count atheists among believers, for demonstrable reasons :)
 
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