ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

Phoneman, you think you've come to some "revelation" with Matt 24:12-13 but you haven't. You're still not secure in your salvation.

 

[Dave24]

I would say that if human beings receive the gift from God to become spirit creatures in Heaven and be part of His Kingdom/Government then they are definitely "special".
I do not have that privilege, but i am not forgotten...i do have the hope of everlasting life on earth, as do many other people...

 

[StanJ]

I would say that if human beings receive the gift from God to become spirit creatures in Heaven and be part of His Kingdom/Government then they are definitely "special".
I do not have that privilege, but i am not forgotten...i do have the hope of everlasting life on earth, as do many other people...

Humans are tripartite beings, made in God's image, as He is tripartite. Gen 1:26-27 (NIV)
Our GIFT, is Eternal Life through Christ Jesus, NOT to be spirit creatures.
Nobody is going to live with God, He is going to live with us. Rev 21:3 (NIV)

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman, you think you've come to some "revelation" with Matt 24:12-13 but you haven't. You're still not secure in your salvation.

Once you realize that heaven bound saints are those who possess agape for God, for fellow man, and agape perfected in them, then you will know that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 are former saints who are now lost, but you'll only come to that realization if you give up the false security of OSAS and set your hope upon the only Source of eternal security: Jesus Christ.

 

[Barrd]

You refuse to acknowledge the operative word "AGAPE" here because you know full well that only saints are capable of partaking of it. Your OSAS ideas will prove themselves to be nothing more than a ropes of sand in the time of trouble.

PM, once more, you have boggled my mind.
I am humbled, my precious brother...

 

[Phoneman777]

Of course you ignored post 167. Deal with it, bro.

Post 167 is your assumed OSAS "proof text" which has nothing to do with this thread's analysis of the impact of Matthew 24:12 KJV on OSAS, which is devastatingly destructive.

The Bible speaks of false prophets preaching "smooth sayings", and what could be more smooth a saying than for them to say to gullible, sin-loving, worldly church goers that want salvation on their own terms, "You can sin as much as you like because it does not affect your salvation"???

 

[Phoneman777]

PM, once more, you have boggled my mind.
I am humbled, my precious brother...

You are too kind, TB! My endless contention with those suffering from Cognitive Dissonance is not in vain, for God says His Word shall not return unto Him void and surely there is someone here who is beginning to realize that OSAS doesn't stand the test of Scripture. To lead them into the truth of a day-by-day, moment-by-moment surrendered walk with Jesus which is the only means by which any of us will be saved is my desire. Those who refuse to enter into this walk will one day soon beg to do so but it will be too late.

 

[Barrd]

Post 167 is your assumed OSAS "proof text" which has nothing to do with this thread's analysis of the impact of Matthew 24:12 KJV on OSAS, which is devastatingly destructive.

The Bible speaks of false prophets preaching "smooth sayings", and what could be more smooth a saying than for them to say to gullible, sin-loving, worldly church goers that want salvation on their own terms, "You can sin as much as you like because it does not affect your salvation"???

It is so glaringly obvious that I just can't understand how they don't see it, PM.

 

[Barrd]

You are too kind, TB! My endless contention with those suffering from Cognitive Dissonance is not in vain, for God says His Word shall not return unto Him void and surely there is someone here who is beginning to realize that OSAS doesn't stand the test of Scripture. To lead them into the truth of a day-by-day, moment-by-moment surrendered walk with Jesus which is the only means by which any of us will be saved is my desire. Those who refuse to enter into this walk will one day soon beg to do so but it will be too late.

You have amazing patience with them, even when they attack you personally. DPMartin and others have been incredibly rude...and you never bat an eye.
I truly wish I could be more like you. You are a great inspiration for me.

I guess I kinda got a bit over-protective during the years my kids were growing up without a father. I sort of developed an attitude...I mean, I'm about 5'4", and I weigh about 127 pounds in my bare feet...most people would not see me as much of a threat, especially now that I'm getting old.
Attitude....

 

[ATP]

Once you realize that heaven bound saints are those who possess agape for God, for fellow man, and agape perfected in them, then you will know that the "many" of Matthew 24:12 are former saints who are now lost, but you'll only come to that realization if you give up the false security of OSAS and set your hope upon the only Source of eternal security: Jesus Christ.

Once you realize we are sealed until death, maybe you'll begin to understand? Maybe.

Post 167 is your assumed OSAS "proof text" which has nothing to do with this thread's analysis of the impact of Matthew 24:12 KJV on OSAS, which is devastatingly destructive.

The Bible speaks of false prophets preaching "smooth sayings", and what could be more smooth a saying than for them to say to gullible, sin-loving, worldly church goers that want salvation on their own terms, "You can sin as much as you like because it does not affect your salvation"???

Well, it has everything to do with it. Once we believe we are born again of imperishable seed. If you aren't secure in your salvation, how can you know you're saved. :unsure:

 

[Phoneman777]

Once you realize we are sealed until death, maybe you'll begin to understand? Maybe.


Well, it has everything to do with it. Once we believe we are born again of imperishable seed. If you aren't secure in your salvation, how can you know you're saved. :unsure:

ATP, if you ever have the courage to face the fact that OSAS demands that ex-saints who no longer possess "perfected agape" must still be counted among the heaven-bound saints who possess "perfected agape", it will be the first step in the cure of your Cognitive Dissonance.

No, no, posting OSAS "proof texts" does nothing to answer the serious charge Matthew 24:12 KJV levels against OSAS in which Jesus clearly chronicles the "many" who were grace-saved, born again saintly recipients of (1) agape for God, (2) for man, and (3) agape perfected in them, but will wind up with cold, imperfect, dead agape which disqualifies them as "heaven bound saints".

 

[Phoneman777]

You have amazing patience with them, even when they attack you personally. DPMartin and others have been incredibly rude...and you never bat an eye.
I truly wish I could be more like you. You are a great inspiration for me.

I guess I kinda got a bit over-protective during the years my kids were growing up without a father. I sort of developed an attitude...I mean, I'm about 5'4", and I weigh about 127 pounds in my bare feet...most people would not see me as much of a threat, especially now that I'm getting old.
Attitude....

Thank you very much, sister. Used to let insults and attacks be a source for severe indignation but God showed me the stark contrast in how He and Satan deal with opposition to their respective kingdoms. Among the many examples of his "war against the saints", Satan through his Papal Antichrist slaughtered what some say was up to 150 MILLION believers who refused to accept Papal falsehoods and those who clothe themselves with an outward garb of evangelical Christianity would do the same if given the opportunity. God will allow them this opportunity to show themselves to be wholly unfit for heavenly citizenship before He comes to take us home.

However, Jesus' method in dealing with His enemies is entirely different. His great love and pity for them which "know not what they do" compelled Him to bear long and patient with them, ever hopeful that some would turn to the truth:

"Annas silenced, struck Jesus on the face, saying, "Answerest Thou the high priest so?" Christ calmly replied, "If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou Me?" He spoke no burning words of retaliation. His calm answer came from a heart sinless, patient, and gentle, that would not be provoked." Desire of Ages, pp. 703

Just trying to be like my Savior is all!

 

[Barrd]

Thank you very much, sister. Used to let insults and attacks be a source for severe indignation but God showed me the stark contrast in how He and Satan deal with opposition to their respective kingdoms. Among the many examples of his "war against the saints", Satan through his Papal Antichrist slaughtered what some say was up to 150 MILLION believers who refused to accept Papal falsehoods and those who clothe themselves with an outward garb of evangelical Christianity would do the same if given the opportunity. God will allow them this opportunity to show themselves to be wholly unfit for heavenly citizenship before He comes to take us home.

However, Jesus' method in dealing with His enemies is entirely different. His great love and pity for them which "know not what they do" compelled Him to bear long and patient with them, ever hopeful that some would turn to the truth:

"Annas silenced, struck Jesus on the face, saying, "Answerest Thou the high priest so?" Christ calmly replied, "If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou Me?" He spoke no burning words of retaliation. His calm answer came from a heart sinless, patient, and gentle, that would not be provoked." Desire of Ages, pp. 703

Just trying to be like my Savior is all!

I understand.
You do remember that there were times when Jesus did call those scribes and Pharisees "hypocrites".
And then there was the clearing of the Temple...
He wasn't always meek and mild...

But then, He did forgive the ones who crucified Him...they didn't know what they were doing.

I think there is a lesson for us here. Do you think these other "Christians" know what they are doing when they mock or become abusive with others?
However, you are quite right, and I do need to curb the attitude. I'm not protecting a brood of small children any more...
Those kids are now big enough to protect me!
I have to remember that.

 

[ATP]

ATP, if you ever have the courage to face the fact that OSAS demands that ex-saints who no longer possess "perfected agape" must still be counted among the heaven-bound saints who possess "perfected agape", it will be the first step in the cure of your Cognitive Dissonance.

No, no, posting OSAS "proof texts" does nothing to answer the serious charge Matthew 24:12 KJV levels against OSAS in which Jesus clearly chronicles the "many" who were grace-saved, born again saintly recipients of (1) agape for God, (2) for man, and (3) agape perfected in them, but will wind up with cold, imperfect, dead agape which disqualifies them as "heaven bound saints".

Your friend Barrd there believes the root in Romans 11 comes from Judaism and not from God.

 

[DPMartin]

Your friend Barrd there believes the root in Romans 11 comes from Judaism and not from God.

Well ATP understand what you are dealing with, this guy uses the word agape in just about every posting. And it’s been my experience that so-called christians that give you the "agape, logos" treatment to get you to believe they know something about God’s Love, are usually full of it, and have no real knowledge of God’s Love. But for some deranged reason seek to form christianity into their own image where ever they can.

　
So you are conversing with those who by their postings show they really don’t know the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. But are going to tell you what you ought to believe about the Lord your God because they can read, which makes them expert in their own eyes.

 

[Barrd]

Well ATP understand what you are dealing with, this guy uses the word agape in just about every posting. And it’s been my experience that so-called christians that give you the "agape, logos" treatment to get you to believe they know something about God’s Love, are usually full of it, and have no real knowledge of God’s Love. But for some deranged reason seek to form christianity into their own image where ever they can.

　
So you are conversing with those who by their postings show they really don’t know the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. But are going to tell you what you ought to believe about the Lord your God because they can read, which makes them expert in their own eyes.

There does seem to be an awful lot of that going on...

 

[Barrd]

Well ATP understand what you are dealing with, this guy uses the word agape in just about every posting. And it’s been my experience that so-called christians that give you the "agape, logos" treatment to get you to believe they know something about God’s Love, are usually full of it, and have no real knowledge of God’s Love. But for some deranged reason seek to form christianity into their own image where ever they can.

　
So you are conversing with those who by their postings show they really don’t know the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. But are going to tell you what you ought to believe about the Lord your God because they can read, which makes them expert in their own eyes.

So, DP....how well can you read?
What do you think this passage means?

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[ATP]

Well ATP understand what you are dealing with, this guy uses the word agape in just about every posting. And it’s been my experience that so-called christians that give you the "agape, logos" treatment to get you to believe they know something about God’s Love, are usually full of it, and have no real knowledge of God’s Love. But for some deranged reason seek to form christianity into their own image where ever they can.
　
So you are conversing with those who by their postings show they really don’t know the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. But are going to tell you what you ought to believe about the Lord your God because they can read, which makes them expert in their own eyes.

That's right DP. The devil is the author of confusion. "This guy" at the same time ignores agape love in...

Rom 8:35 ESV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Neither death nor life will separate us, Rom 8:38 ESV, Rev 20:14 ESV.

Praying, ATP.

 

[Phoneman777]

ell ATP understand what you are dealing with, this guy uses the word agape in just about every posting. And it’s been my experience that so-called christians that give you the "agape, logos" treatment to get you to believe they know something about God’s Love, are usually full of it, and have no real knowledge of God’s Love. But for some deranged reason seek to form christianity into their own image where ever they can.

　
So you are conversing with those who by their postings show they really don’t know the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. But are going to tell you what you ought to believe about the Lord your God because they can read, which makes them expert in their own eyes.

"Agape" in every post? Have you read the O/P? It's an analysis of what Jesus said in Matthew 24:212-13 KJV and I'm trying to steer the conversation back to it, because people seem to think that steering away from the thread topic is the best way to meet the challenges that topic presents. So far, your only rebuttal is to to insist that the "many" are not saints, even though the saints are known by their agape for God, for man, and for having agape perfected in them, which agape Jesus says the "many" possessed before it turned cold and dead.

Not sticking to the O/P is a violation of forum rules.

Not surprising, though, seeing that OSAS was fabricated so that those who refuse to obey rules and commandments can still retain salvation. Perhaps the idea of OSAS has led some to believe in ORAR - "once registered, always registered" - which allows them to violate forum rules at will.

 

[mjrhealth]

which agape Jesus says the "many"

He didnt say teh many would be following Him did He. Love has being diminishing in this world since Adam and eve, and is hard to find even amongst christians. If you Loved God you would believe Him, when He says you are saved you would believe Him, but so many christians cant understand how God can love them so much as to save them without their help. No pm, this topic is a bit like explaining to you about trees but not being allowed to mention flowers. You only "want" your answer, and you wont get it. As i said before, Jesus will let you go round and round and round till you get it.Untill we are willing to admit we are wrong and He is right, till we are willing to be emptied of ourselves and let go of all that we know so He can fil us with Himself, we remain unteachable. A glass filled with mud cant be filled with clean water untill it is emptied and washed clean.

In all His Love