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Featured "and their eyes were opened..."

Discussion in 'Christianity & Science Forum' started by MattMooradian, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    What does the Bible mean in the account in Genesis regarding the change that took place after the Fall? I am looking for feedback regarding my view of this event. According to my reading of the Fall, prior to the Fall, humans were not aware that they were naked. Then, after the Fall, they were aware of their nakedness. Could this be evidence of 'evolution'? The Knowledge of good and evil appears to have "opened their eyes", made humans 'conscious' of their nakedness. The lower animals, of course, are not conscious of their nakedness. Were humans somewhat more like animals before the Fall? The use of clothing is also evidence of cultural evolution.
     
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  2. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not.
     
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  3. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.
    They became more like stupid animals after the fall.... nothing at all related to anything in the devil's myth of evolutoin.
     
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  4. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    Why were they unaware of their nakedness? God said, "Who told you that you were naked?" Do you not see the similarity between animals being naked and being unaware of their nakedness? If they became more like animals after the Fall, why did they start wearing clothes? Animals do not wear clothes. So, at least on this one account, they became less like animals.

    I'm asking people to think about the passage, I am aware of all the canned responses from an orthodox point of view.
     
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  5. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Because it is written.
    No - that is not Biblical nor Godly at all.
    It is written that God made what for them ? Did God say why ? Nothing at all to do with the animal kingdom or anything else.
    No, not at all related.
     
  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Greetings, Mooradian.

    Let me quote the passage first from the LXX:

    3:2 Now the serpent was the most crafty of all the brutes on the earth, which the Lord God made, and the serpent said to the woman, Wherefore has God said, Eat not of every tree of the garden? 3 And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden, 4 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 5 And the serpent said to the woman, Ye shall not surely die. 6 For God knew that in whatever day ye should eat of it your eyes would be opened, and ye would be as gods, knowing good and evil. 7 And the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes to look upon and beautiful to contemplate, and having taken of its fruit she ate, and she gave to her husband also with her, and they ate. 8 And the eyes of both were opened, and they perceived that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons to go round them. 9 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the afternoon; and both Adam and his wife hid themselves from the face of the Lord God in the midst of the trees of the garden. 10 And the Lord God called Adam and said to him, Adam, where art thou? 11 And he said to him, I heard thy voice as thou walkedst in the garden, and I feared because I was naked and I hid myself. 12 And God said to him, Who told thee that thou wast naked, unless thou hast eaten of the tree concerning which I charged thee of it alone not to eat? 13 And Adam said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me—she gave me of the tree and I ate. 14 And the Lord God said to the woman, Why hast thou done this? And the woman said, The serpent deceived me and I ate.

    I think verse 8 has to be taken as a totality. Satanists love to make the words "and their eyes were opened" out to mean that somehow the serpent was a giver of light, but that's not what the context says. It says, "And the eyes of both were opened and they perceived that they were naked," meaning it dawned on them now that as a result of sinning they were in a place of nakedness before God. In the natural, nothing would have been wrong with them remaining naked in creation. After all, this is the way God created them. But suddenly there was shame, and their eyes were opened to it, so they tried to cover over it somehow. To this day, the Lord speaks to His people about being clothed again in the power and presence of God, so that the shame of their spiritual nakedness not appear (Revelation 3:14-22).
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
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  7. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they were unaware of their nakedness. They were unashamed. There's quiet a big difference.
    Shame is the result of sin....but what were they ashamed of? ....their bodies? I doubt that also. God had pronounced his creation very good subsequently there was no reason to be ashamed of their bodies. They were ashamed because now they were exposed; they no longer had the covering of righteousness and tried to hide but God supplied them with the skins of a lamb (a covering) not because they needed to hide their sexuality.
    Here the first gospel message was given....God would supply a covering for their inadequacy. It was a type as was the lamb as were the skins.....and who killed the lamb??....yes, it was God's doing.

    Men have twisted this and made sexuality the culprit as if ones genitals were unacceptable......It is so ingrained we can barely discern the difference......the multi generational programming has conveniently dismissed God's gracious act.
     
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  8. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, we must understand what the word 'naked' means. Never assume.

    Let's let the Word of God teach us...

    2 Corinthians 5:2-4
    "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

    "If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked"

    "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life"


    Adam and his Wife were 'naked' because they weren't clothed with a Tabernacle Body yet. That was the point of having the two Trees. Their Tabernacle Body would be determined by their choice of Fruit.

    They chose an Earthly (corrupt) Tabernacle Body to be 'clothed' with.

    Also...

    Be sure and not make the mistake of assuming that the 'Skins' God clothed them with were animals skins...

    Genesis 3:21
    "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them"


    The above verse was the moment Adam and Eve received their Earthly Tabernacle Body. How do we know?

    Again, let the Word of God teach us what the 'skins' were...

    Job 10:11
    "Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews"


    There you go. It was not Evolution, but rather a very profound event.
     
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  9. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't the Forbidden Fruit that opened their eyes. It was God.

    Why?

    Because Adam and his Wife were dead...

    Genesis 2:17
    "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"


    When Adam and his Wife partook of the Forbidden Fruit, they died right then and there, just like God said they would.

    The act of God resurrecting them is what made their eyes open.

    Yes, we all know that the Church lies and says that Adam and his Wife did NOT surely die, but rather it was a "Spiritual Death".

    No.

    God told the Truth. They died in every sense of the word.
     
  10. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    `Q
    I find your posts gobbledy gook. You're cobbling matters together from your imagination and in so doing are bringing swift destruction upon yourself. Consider yourself warned!
     
  11. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    OK Quiet Thinker. I love you too.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean you look at all the canned responses with yourself having an orthodox point of view ?
     
  13. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    So, you are taking a symbolic view of their 'nakedness'. I would interpret these versus literally. They really were naked & were unaware. "God said, 'Who told you that you were naked'?" Also, they did gain the knowledge of good and evil after eating of that tree. I do not view this as Satan somehow giving enlightenment to humans. But, humans did gain that knowledge after the Fall. According to my reading, the knowledge of good and evil would have been given to us according to God's plan, but Satan disrupted that plan. It is now considered a virtue if a human has a strong ability to discern good and evil; the Book of Proverbs reiterates that humans should seek to hone this ability.
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well yes. They were literally naked. But the thing is, they were literally naked since the day they were created and it wasn't a problem. The day they sinned is when they noticed, which means there was a shame present that wasn't there before. Thus it was their spiritual nakedness before God that caused them to walk in shame; something they tried to treat by sowing fig leaves for themselves, but that did not lead to their feeling truly "covered" before God.
     
  15. Yehren

    Yehren Well-Known Member

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    The key is the snake's claim that gaining the knowledge of good and evil would make them like God. Notice the snake is very good at using the truth to deceive. God later confirms that the snake told the truth about that, but withheld part of the truth, that humans, knowing good and evil, could not be truly good ,and therefore would be estranged from God if they gained that knowledge.
     
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  16. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    All thru history:

    1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural man does not ... - Bible Hub
    biblehub.com › 1_corinthians

    The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. ... are madness to him, and he is not able to know, for they are known by The Spirit.

    i.e. man cannot know anything spiritual , cannot grasp it, naturally, since the fall....

    except what the Creator grants to him....
     
  17. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    That's right. They were unaware that their nakedness was shameful, just like my dog. They had no shame about their nakedness, just like my dog. Eating of the Tree of Knowledge caused "their eyes were opened", and they became aware that they were naked.
     
  18. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Or, they were clothed with light? They lost something when they sinned (like people today do too? and fellowship is broken ?) ... Some way as also later noted in Scripture , somewhere, about not being found naked (much later, not about Adam), some references to being clothed with either light or with righteousness or with Jesus robe of righteousness ? (from memory)
     
  19. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    What change specifically in Scripture ?
     
  20. Yehren

    Yehren Well-Known Member

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    "Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to."
    Mark Twain, Letters From the Earth
     
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