Another Brick in the Wall
- Thread starter Looking4Me
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
oh so you have received Him?
then you have the "ἐξουσίαν" -- the rightful authority -- to become His child =]
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I’ve no need to say anything, because you seem to be speaking for me?
Puts hand up really high..... I KNOW... I KNOW... pick me... pick me... LOL
i'm just not sure if you know what you're saying ((or if what i'm reading is what you are meaning to say))
see how my replies to you ended with this symbol "?"
-- that indicates they are questions =p
sorry about that tho. i'm not great at dealing with people.
you'll get used to me
We agree on the meaning
We won't get to agreement on the meaning
if we keep judging and stumbling over how we express or see each other saying it.
@Addy I made it clear that the objection
was not misrepresenting Jesus as just being good and consistent with God's will
Jesus is actually EMBODYING God's will and Justice, nobody else does or can do that.
In order for man to do that we need to embrace and embody JESUS, whoever receives the Son receives the Father who sent Him.
Likewise where @Wrangler
objects, and where I argue sounds confusing,
Is where this sounds like
Ignoring that God the Father as Creator
Is still GREATER than all, even Jesus included.
But this does NOT negate the Father and Son are ONE.
John 10:29-30
I believe you @post @Wrangler and others are all talking about the same God and Jesus.
Some of us are more thinkers like the Righteous Gentiles (like Jefferson)
who talk and think in terms of meaning to people in practical real life.
Same Jesus as God's will and Justice,
but expressed in terms of people who don't follow the language in the Bible.
You are right, the risk and conflicts with people doing the OPPOSITE of this, and taking man's ways and trying to project that onto Jesus or God.
@Wrangler thinks some of the Trinity uses to judge others is coming from man not God.
You don't want either of us doing that either, either doing it ourselves or promoting other people doing that.
Neither does @Wrangler
As for me, I usually see people resolve this Trinity disagreement by understanding other people have their ways of sharing that are given to them by God. Imperfect or not, God is in charge and has us organize along different ways of focus or teaching for a reason.
We can help each other, but judging blaming or projecting on each other doesn't help.
I have never seen reconciliation
CHANGE anyone's views from one to another or one side to another
What I have seen happen is opening both sides to understand why the other objects
When both sides can see why the way we say things looks wrong to others, we are just aware and more careful not to cause confusion.
All of us has come back and said:
But what you objected to is NOT what I meant
So when both sides can spell out what is causing the misperceptions of us
based on misunderstanding what we mean by our posts or wording (that sounds like something wrong or contradictory)
We no longer ADD the assumptions or judgments that are personal about the person.
Again, what I have found in the past,
this mutual change in perceptions
ABOUT EACH OTHER
does not change or require either side to change our ways of saying or seeing things.
We will just be more careful how we present and talk about God and Jesus, being more aware that believers on both sides of how to teach "the Trinity" see and talk about God in different ways that can sound WRONG to others.
If they question or object, there are reasons and it isn't fair to say it's all their fault.
Yes God the Father as Creator
Is a distinct role from
Jesus the Son as Messiah and Mediator abd Savior
Yet one God where Father and Son are inseparable
The Bible says Christ Jesus is the ONE Mediator between God and man.
NOT God the Father is the one Mediator
between man and Jesus.
These roles of Creator and Mediator
Are DISTINCT and not interchangeable.
And this does NOT negate that
God and Jesus are One Inseparable.
If Jesus wasn't ONE with God, we could not have Christians praying in Jesus name.
And if Jesus and God were completely the same and interchangeable, it would be
God the Father
God the Son (and not specify Jesus)
and the Holy Spirit.
There wouldn't be a reason to name Jesus
In the middle except that this role is unique and distinct from God the Father.
When it comes to exorcism and deliverance,
the people who pray for this NEVER assume the authority of Jesus. NEVER attempt or advise any person to step into this role.
This is always invoked in Jesus name, but handed over to Jesus Authority.
As for forgiveness and understanding:
I have NEVER found someone who was so perfectly unbiased as God/Jesus who could truly understand all people equally.
God being omnipotent knows all souls and can understand and forgive in greater levels than we can
Yes, by agreeing to receive God's love grace and forgiveness we can forgive and love others as God/Jesus does.
But as for doing this for ALL people, I find we all have our limits, and do not do this for all people equally.
We will respond and care for some people more closely than others.
This is necessary so God organizes and distributes mission calling to different people to cover different areas.
The weirdest things I have run into is people unable to forgive certain people or things. So they bias their associations and pick which groups or projects they feel called to work with.
I wish we could just follow God's calling without these walls of unforgiven issues.
It can take so much work to forgive different issues, people prioritize this in steps.
So the degree to which we can forgive or reject different people is part of our path in life and purpose God gives us.
If we do not forgive all people equally, there is a reason for that.
Last edited:
only because He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory which He has had with the Father eternally, and taking the form of a man.
your statement can be rephrased this way "God is greater than all, even God included" -- yes He can make a Rock too big for Him to move, and yes He can also move it.
it is not incorrect, but it is readily abused if it isn't understood correctly: understanding correctly requires recognizing that the Son is God just as much as the Father is God, yet God is One. Moses and the 70 elders "saw God" at Sinai, and "no one has ever seen the Father at any time" -- both are true; scripture doesn't contradict itself. whoever has seen Christ has seen the Father; Christ is God and the Father is God and they are One God and there is no other. it was Christ who they saw.
that is precisely why i have been saying what i have been saying, since i arrived and saw Mssr. Wrangler unabashedly propagating heresy all over the forum. i informed him that he cannot understand scripture and that he should shut up. this is from love, real love, which fears God. i said this, and say it, to save Mssr. Wrangler's life.
God is not less than God. God is equal to God.
all the weights in the bag are from the LORD; He hates a false balance.
God being infinite, infinity plus one is still infinity. Infinity plus 100 is still infinity.
Whatever could be said as creating or greater than God then becomes God, so God is infinite, no beginning and no end.
As for Jesus, being equal with God is still not identical.
Husband and wife are equal but not each other.
Again God sent His only Begotten Son to be sacrificed that humanity can be saved.
Jesus did not send God the Father to die on the Cross.
These roles are clearly distinct
even though Jesus and God are ONE inseparable.
I just noticed your Faith states... other faith.... Welcome to the forums... however I guess you are not entirely new.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Why would you say that!? Alright you got me, I'm trolling. Would you like me to troll fast? Or troll slow?
Dear @Looking4Me
Brings peace of mind so you don't drive yourself crazy.
When you pick things apart, humans are irredeemable, mucked up beyond repair.
There is no hope we can help ourselves get over ourselves.
I think you see this, there is really no rational way to justify human beliefs.
But free grace means we don't waste our minds time energy or life holding the past against ourselves or others.
We can acknowledge it is messed up,
but still enjoy today and what good we can make of what we have.
My friend Ray a proud funny atheist continued teaching the key of forgiveness as "cheap grace" in life that just naturally is, long after he gave up Christianity.
Nothing stops you from changing and doing or thinking something different today if you didn't like what you were doing before.
He called it not keeping inventory on yourself or you go nuts.
Worse, if you cannot do that but try keeping inventory on others, you really will be miserable and mad all the time.
He kindly pleaded with people: please don't do that to yourself. Please forgive so you don't make yourself crazy, for your own sanity sake!
He had counseled people after murder, whether the survivors or the offenders.
He told me he had worked with people considered monsters, who raped and killed anyone from grandmothers to babies and were deemed worthless inhumans to society.
But each one facing life in prison or the death penalty had time to spend.
They could either stay miserable
Or they could focus on the gift of life and humanity.
He helped a lot of people forgive and let go. Even though as an atheist he called it free grace
It still worked the same way for the Christian as the Buddhist.
I think he had an advantage, being brought up Christian as a Baptist until age 19 when he realized he was secular nontheist.
The prayers to God through Jesus were not his way.
But he found his calling reaching the really lost in prisons nobody else could reach.
I still see his message as a neighbor in Christ.
It is still God's love and redeeming grace through Christ, by any other name.
It is universal. The gift of forgiveness
is the one thing that breaks the cycle of suffering.
Or the human mind would never let go
but forever stew in its own misery.
Last edited:
Of course you don't get it.
Not by calling anyone sand witches.
You will not get anyone to make you one
that way!
Now go get your own!
Similar threads
