Another Brick in the Wall

[post]

The people saying Jesus is God mean Jesus was perfectly embodying God's will in man.

no, actually, in Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily.
He is God, the exact image of His likeness, He Himself manifest in the flesh - fully God, and fully human.
and He is never not-God; He set aside His glory, the robe which the train of filled the temple, and humbled Himself being found in the form of a man.

He's not just 'a mere mortal man who did what was right' -- Christ Jesus isn't a bodhisattva.
He is the jayadeva; God-man, the only One. the I AM having added humanity to Himself, in order to reconcile humanity to Himself.

of course He speaks as a man. of course He speaks as God. He is, both -- and there is only One God, and His name, One.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

How do you defend limiting God to 3 in light of John 17:22 & 1 John 3:1; we saints are all children of God with God's same divine spirit in us?



Indeed. Trinitarianism is so intolerant, it would rather people - like me - not come to Christ - if 3 = 1 is not also believed (even though it is not in Scripture), thereby violating Romans 14:1

Again @Wrangler
Back to the idea of whatever people or groups we don't forgive creating a bias between perceptions or groups.

God uses this to organize us in tribes or churches, like the JW or Church of Christ.
(JW reject the Trinity and Spiritual Healing.
Church of Christ accept the Trinity but question Spiritual Healing)

So people group together according to their biases.

Next, what do we do after we organize in likeminded teams?

What I believe God is doing:
Once we organize in blocks or congregations all united around the same focus,
Then when people like you and @post and me resolve our differences, we can help others to do the same
And OVERCOME the divisions this has caused.

We can unite whole groups who used to be divided.

Next what will happen?

Those groups are already organized to serve together as an orchestrated ministry outreach.

Once we unite in spirit, by 2s and 3s, in Christ, this influences the entire group built around each person from a different group.

We can each do more with each group now, by removing the obstruction that came from division and intolerance/unforgiveness.

So God still used this to organize us more effectively.

When we are mature and ready to receive the whole of God's blessings, we unite and bring all the rest of these congregations and followings into the full unity of the Kingdom of God.

Funniest thing, @Wrangler
We may or may not ever change how we see or say God in diverse ways.

What changes is the tolerance by forgiving the differences and conflicts this has caused.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

Emily, you are embracing contradictions here. For the same stripe of the zebra, it is Yes or No being one color or the other.



If that is what they actually meant, there would be no rift on this point. However, that is not what they mean.

And we can go around and around, both
blaming the other.

@Wrangler I have friends who look at God or Life in ways nobody else on the planet does but them.

We are not going to see or say things the same way.

If we are going to teach tolerance, it doesn't mean attaching conditions that they will change their views or beliefs that may never happen.

To achieve tolerance and receive forgiveness, all we can do is make sure WE ask God's help and agree to receive forgiveness.

We can never dictate that for others.

 

[post]

Were you thinking and dwelling on what is good pleasant and holy when
thinking of @Wrangler ?

absolutely, God's judgement is holy & just - and the work of the Spirit is to condemn the world of sin.
blasphemy is sin; Christ was delivered to death for exactly one charge: claiming to be God, the King of Israel ((1 Samuel 8:7)). Mssr. Wrangler has made a living here out of repeating the accusation, and it is the duty of the mature in Christ to reprimand the teaching of false doctrine, especially among those who have no excuse of ignorance ((Titus 1:9)).

this is the good, lovely and perfect will of our Father - that the teaching of error in the 'church' be opposed, firmly.

 

[Addy]

this is the good, lovely and perfect will of our Father - that the teaching of error in the 'church' be opposed, firmly.

Ok... VERDICT is in.... YOU pass... LOL

 

[post]

I tolerate both views for or against,
which appears to be a test of tolerance
More than a test of faith.

can you show me where the Bible calls tolerating false doctrine a virtue?
i mean clearly the world thinks that's righteousness -- but does God?

the deity of Christ isn't a 'doubtful disputation' -- it's the foundation of the gospel, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

if someone is here preaching that Christ did not rise from the dead, will you also welcome them as your brother?

the idea of whatever people or groups we don't forgive creating a bias between perceptions or groups.

God uses this to organize us in tribes or churches, like the JW or Church of Christ.

oh. i guess you do, huh.
you know JW's also deny the death & the resurrection of Christ, right?
so what fellowship do you think you have with them?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

This violates the 1C & 2C.

I see the New Commandment in John 13:34 as loving one another as Jesus loves us with GOD's love which is greater than man's love.

If man uses man's love and justice to love others, this can become conditional and retributive.

Loving people with God's love is not for our material benefits or reward (as even heathens reward those who reward them).

So Jesus adds this NEW Commandment to the other Two.

As you emphasize, what makes Jesus unique and distinct from God the Father per se is bringing God's love Word will laws and justice into incarnation or embodiment in MAN.

Good point, @Wrangler I think we can emphasize this without negating Jesus as being Righteous and Perfect as God's will in Man.

Very close. If it still isn't perfect, as none of us is God or Jesus, that is where Grace and forgiveness is key.

All I can say, if you and I want others to stop the intolerance, then we need to practice the same tolerance we ask for.

I constantly have to ask and offer tolerance, because my ways are different, too.
I am not perfect, but I have my preferences and biases as well.
I think you and I are pretty equally grounded
and very close in views.

So if me and other pro and anti Trinity advocates can tolerate each other,
I ask can we encourage the same with others?

 

[post]

No! This was Jesus privately speaking to His disciples.

so you're saying you're not His disciple?

such a weird forum

 

[post]

So Jesus adds this NEW Commandment to the other Two.

In that He says, “A new" He has made the first obsolete
(Hebrews 8:13)​

who has authority to make the covenants and commandments of God obsolete, except God?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

no, actually, in Him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily.
He is God, the exact image of His likeness, He Himself manifest in the flesh - fully God, and fully human.
and He is never not-God; He set aside His glory, the robe which the train of filled the temple, and humbled Himself being found in the form of a man.

He's not just 'a mere mortal man who did what was right' -- Christ Jesus isn't a buddhisatva.
He is the jayadeva; God-man, the only One. the I AM having added humanity to Himself, in order to reconcile humanity to Himself.

of course He speaks as a man. of course He speaks as God. He is, both -- and there is only One God, and His name, One.

Yes,
The reason you object is you don't want this diluted to group Jesus with others, like Moses or Buddha who served as prophets giving the laws and weren't full embodiments

@Wrangler Can we agree that Jesus being the ONLY SON of God, no one else plays the same role but Jesus alone is unique.
There is nobody else in the CENTER.

Can we agree that even when Jesus manifested as physically in man, this was DIFFERENT from any other teacher prophet angel leader etc.

Jesus plays a UNIQUE role.

Can we agree on this uniqueness even if we word or describe the nature of the role differently.

We AGREE Jesus is not like the others because only Jesus is named with God and Holy Spirit as the SON.

Can we start there?

 

[post]

all united around the same focus

this focus:

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Philippians 2:10-11)

​

note that even every knee in heaven will bow to Him. this is not 'a mere man who did well' -- this is the Lord of heaven and earth
note that glorifying Jesus Christ is equivalent to glorifying God. of what man is that ever said?? He is equal to God! ((c.f. Philippians 2:6))
but it is written, do not put your trust in man - yet Salvation is found by putting our trust in the Son of Man. how is that so?

 

[Emily Nghiem]

In that He says, “A new" He has made the first obsolete
(Hebrews 8:13)​

who has authority to make the covenants and commandments of God obsolete, except God?

Yes Jesus is the embodiment of God's Authority of Justice and Law as
LORD over all lords and the Husband of all the people of the church.

@post
Do you agree God the Father sent Jesus to be incarnated in man and sacrificed in human form.

But Jesus did not send God the Father to be incarnated and sacrificed.

Those roles of Father and Son are not
the same or interchangeable
These are two different contexts

One God but distinct manifestations
that are still INSEPARABLE
but not the same role as each other.

 

[Addy]

Hi @Emily Nghiem ... I have been following some of your posts... You spoke to my heart when you first arrived here about forgiveness and I took heed to your words.... however... although I admire your gifting of trying to bring people together.... this is a topic that will never be brought to any kind of UNISON or UNITY.... Jesus was/is/will for eternity be... GOD.... He is not just a good guy... or different than the others... HE is GOD... and HE is very alive today. Anyone who claims that Jesus is anything but GOD cannot come together with the Christian. It is impossible and the two sides are NOT meant to meet. @post is under no obligation to try and compromise with a non believer.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

can you show me where the Bible calls tolerating false doctrine a virtue?
i mean clearly the world thinks that's righteousness -- but does God?

the deity of Christ isn't a 'doubtful disputation' -- it's the foundation of the gospel, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

if someone is here preaching that Christ did not rise from the dead, will you also welcome them as your brother?



oh. i guess you do, huh.
you know JW's also deny the death & the resurrection of Christ, right?
so what fellowship do you think you have with them?

Forgiveness vs unforgiveness

Matthew 6:14-15

 

[post]

it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve’
(Luke 4:8)

If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor
(John 12:26)​

have i broken the Bible? is scripture set against itself?
Christ is either a self-contradictory blasphemer, or Christ is God!

 

[post]

Forgiveness vs unforgiveness

Matthew 6:14-15

belief vs. unbelief

John 11:25-26

 

[Waiting on him]

We AGREE Jesus is not like the others because only Jesus is named with God and Holy Spirit as the SON.

Can we start there?

The first century church was given power to become the sons of God.

 

[post]

Yes Jesus is the embodiment of God's Authority of Justice and Law as
LORD over all lords and the Husband of all the people of the church.

@post
Do you agree God the Father sent Jesus to be incarnated in man and sacrificed in human form.

But Jesus did not send God the Father to be incarnated and sacrificed.

Those roles of Father and Son are not
the same or interchangeable
These are two different contexts

One God but distinct manifestations
that are still INSEPARABLE
but not the same role as each other.

I will recount the steadfast love of the LORD,
the praises of the LORD,
according to all that the LORD has granted us,
and the great goodness to the house of Israel
that He has granted them according to His compassion,
according to the abundance of His steadfast love!
For He said, “Surely they are My people,
children who will not deal falsely.”
And He became their Savior!
(Isaiah 63:7-8)​

who is our Savior, one guess =]

 

[Waiting on him]

Forgiveness vs unforgiveness

Matthew 6:14-15

Yes we have the power to forgive sins, it’s Christ in us.

 

[post]

The first century church was given power to become the sons of God.

wow too bad for us. born too late, huh

but John 1:12 says this of "those who received Him"

are you saying you have not received Him?