ANOTHER FACTOR THAT PROVES AMIL FALSE, PAUL WISHED FOR A RESURRECTION OF THE UNJUST ALSO

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TheHC

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The idea of a second chance at salvation after death is simply not taught anywhere in scripture.
Sure it is! What do you think the Resurrection of the unrighteous, and their following judgment (Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29), is about?

The judgment they receive is concerning their actions after their resurrection. Death was the payment for their previous sins! — Romans 6:7,23.

What? Where do you come up with this stuff? All Christians are chosen/elect and go to heaven.
No. There are Christ’s “brothers” (who are the chosen), and there are the “sheep” class, whom Jesus says have done good things “to” His “brothers”. - Matthew 25:31-45.

These ones are not His brothers, but are still followers of Christ.
They make up the “meek / mild tempered [who will] inherit the Earth”, as Jesus stated at Matthew 5:5. See Psalm 37:10,11,29
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Sure it is! What do you think the Resurrection of the unrighteous, and their following judgment (Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29), is about?

The judgment they receive is concerning their actions after their resurrection. Death was the payment for their previous sins! — Romans 6:7,23.
Where are you getting this from? Why would it say they are resurrected to "damnation" (John 5:28-29) and to "shame and everlasting contempt" if they get a chance to repent after being resurrected? Scripture never teaches such a thing.

No. There are Christ’s “brothers” (who are the chosen), and there are the “sheep” class, whom Jesus says have done good things “to” His “brothers”. - Matthew 25:31-45.
We (Christians) are all His "brothers" and His sheep.

Matthew 12:46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Notice that Jesus was talking to His disciples here, but then expanded what He was talking about it to "whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

These ones are not His brothers, but are still followers of Christ.
Nonsense.

They make up the “meek / mild tempered [who will] inherit the Earth”, as Jesus stated at Matthew 5:5. See Psalm 37:10,11,29
All who follow Christ are meek because His followers are all humble/meek servants who submit to Him.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Where are you getting this from? Why would it say they are resurrected to "damnation" (John 5:28-29) and to "shame and everlasting contempt" if they get a chance to repent after being resurrected? Scripture never teaches such a thing.
Go to a Concordance and see that the word is not “damnation” but “judgment”.

Strongs defines this word as…

“κρίσις krísis, kree'-sis; decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law):—accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.”

This is not a resurrection to simply sentence one to punishment for all the wrongs they committed in their ignorance.….as it says in Romans 6:7….cited by @TheHC ….
”for he who has died is freed from sin.” Did you never read that? We are freed from our previous sin at death. This is why the resurrected ones will be put ‘on trial’, in a period of “judgment” so “justice” can be served. God wants to give everyone the same chance at life.

What was the highest penalty paid under God’s law? DEATH…..these ones have paid sins wages (Rom 6:23) and are resurrected now under “judgment” not condemnation…..if they have paid for their sins with their own death, that is like a man sentenced to an extended prison term, who, after he has served his time, is then able to walk free to live his life again……but unlike that prisoner, the resurrected “unrighteous“ ones were not consciously suffering in a literal prison, theirs is a prison that no one could escape from because only one person had “the keys of death and hades” (the grave) Jesus Christ. (Rev 1:18)

Freed from their prison, this is a period where they now have an opportunity to turn their life around….to accept Jesus as their savior because his death saved their lives too…even before there was any knowledge of him in the world.

So, where are these ”righteous and unrighteous“ ones resurrected from? Jesus says he calls all of these ones from their tombs……so they are all still in them….”sleeping” in death….humans going all the way back to Abel will come back to life.

Justice demands that they have an opportunity to learn about the God they never knew, and his means for their own salvation. How is that not fair?
We (Christians) are all His "brothers" and His sheep.
These “brothers of Christ” are the elect, who are supported by the sheep whilst still on earth, doing good deeds to them. (Matt 25:31-46) These “brothers“ of Christ are also “Sons of God”….
Jesus has “brothers”…..God has “sons”.

Two groups are seen in John’s Revelation…..

Rev 7:2-4; 9-10, 13-14…
”And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: . . . . After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”. . . . Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
(NASB)

The ones who are “sealed” are the elect (a finite group, chosen by God who are all Israelites, (but not of the flesh)…these are Christ’s “brothers”….spiritual “Israel” (Gal 6:16) who will rule in his kingdom with him as “kings and priests” (Rev 20:6)…..but the second group is from all tribes and nations of the earth…..completely separate, pictured with palm branches in their hands signifying their peaceful condition.
These merit salvation too as those who will “inherit the earth” as Jesus said.

There are two separate groups, with two separate destinies….but God is the one who chooses where they will spend eternity. All are happy to serve God no mater where that is….there is no jealousy or rivalry among them.

There is so much detail that is missing in “church theology” that the Bible clearly states. This is why we need to study the Bible to see what all of it teaches.
Matthew 12:46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Here Jesus is speaking about relationships that his Jewish audience understood. It is the reason why we call one another “brother” and “sister” because we all have the same Father….the same “Father” that Jesus himself has. (John 20:17)
Notice that Jesus was talking to His disciples here, but then expanded what He was talking about it to "whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
The elect began to be chosen when Christ walked the earth…..prior to that no one in the Jewish understanding of Messiah’s role ever imagined that they were going to heaven….it was never mentioned.

Only with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, was this revealed to his 120 faithful disciples gathered in that upper room…..these now understood that the Kingdom would rule from heaven over redeemed mankind on earth, bringing them back to God’s first purpose for them.

Where did God create humans to live forever? Not heaven…..he created the earth for us, and we for the earth. In the creation account, there is no mention of death except as a punishment for disobedience.
Gen 3:22-24 tells us what happened then.
All who follow Christ are meek because His followers are all humble/meek servants who submit to Him.
Meekness is a quality that Jesus looks for in his disciples and at the time of his choosing his apostles, the very Jewish trait of self importance was a hard lesson for them to overcome. They constantly argued over ‘who among them was the greatest’…..by the time he left the earthly scene that trait was vanquished.

But if the “meek” are going to “inherit the earth”, then who goes to heaven? If those who are taken to heaven are to be “kings and priests”….who then are their subjects? For whom do they act as priests if not the redeemed sinners who will be brought back to sinless perfection during the thousand years of Kingdom rule.
It is all designed to take us back to God’s first purpose for the human race……what was that?
Can you tell us?
 
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PS95

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At what time was that recorded? To whom was it written? It was to Christians in the first century.
Any who have knowledge of Jesus Christ and his message of salvation are judged by him as to how they respond to his message. (Matt 10:11-14) People in this time period will have no excuse. Like Judaism, Christianity was at first localized to one people, in one nation…..but when Christ came and offered his life, Christianity was to spread out into “the entire inhabited earth”…..there would be no excuses for ignorance after that. (Matt 24:14) Who today have not heard the Christian message? Who will be able to say to the judge….“no one told me I had choices”?

But before that when people had no knowledge of Christ and his sacrifice, why would God not give them a second chance….does he not want “all to receive salvation”? Is that justice?……to be convicted of a crime you did not commit except in ignorance. Those who sinned in ignorance way before God gave his law cannot be convicted and sentenced without first being given opportunity to change their ways. Repentance is all God requires. He has no need to take life unless someone has committed a crime…..if there was no law, there was no crime. Is God unjust?

The “unrighteous” are raised to “judgment” not “condemnation” unless they fail to repent.
Look up the meaning of those words in Greek. No one is condemned unless their conduct warrants it. You cannot break a law that does not exist.

People do get second chances…..look at Manasseh…..and King David. Both deserved the death penalty for their crimes, but God spared their lives and forgave them because they repented.
WOOO hoooo oh Jane. Calling Dearest Aunty JW Jane---am I back on your shun list? Shall I make that thread that I spoke of? Why did you ignore me again? Are you afraid that I will show people what JWs really teach about the atonement?
TheHC is welcome to come along for the fun. She always does. You guys like to travel in packs.. :shockedx

@Spiritual Israelite
 

TheHC

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All who follow Christ are meek because His followers are all humble/meek servants who submit to Him.
We all should try to be meek, shouldn’t we?
But that wasn’t really my point…

These meek ones (at Matthew 5:5) will “inherit the earth.” And that “the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.” Psalm 37:11,29.

Your quote from Daniel 12, about those who will be resurrected “to everlasting contempt”, is informing us that those won’t learn meekness (they won’t truly conform their lives), so they will be judged adversely during Christ’s thousand year reign, & will ultimately be “consumed”, ie., destroyed. — Revelation 20:7-9

(Notice the “earth” is mentioned, twice: “those nations in the four corners of the earth”, & “the whole earth.”)

Revelation 21:3,4 says God’s “tent is with mankind.” Mankind are people on this planet.
 

PGS11

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I believe in Jesus he knew what he was doing I completely trust in him.It just feels he will have enough Love for all in the end how ever it works out.It is what I believe I am just a too christian christian.
 

Davy

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You clearly didn’t read what I actually wrote, or you’re deliberately twisting it. Nowhere did I say the unjust would be saved, what I pointed out, and what Scripture clearly teaches, is that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust, just like Paul said in Acts 24:15. That’s not a “doctrine of men,” that’s the Word of God. Revelation 20 confirms this with two distinct resurrections: the first for the righteous who reign with Christ, and the second for the wicked who are judged after the thousand years (Revelation 20:4–6, 11–15). There is nothing “implied” about it, Scripture lays out the timeline plainly.

As for your claim that Revelation 3:9 proves the enemies of God will worship at the feet of the elect during the thousand-year reign, you’re completely misusing that passage. Jesus was speaking specifically to the church in Philadelphia, not giving a prophecy about the Millennium. That’s reading your assumptions into the text, not taking it as written. Same with Zechariah 14, it describes nations worshiping during the reign of the Messiah, but says nothing about the final resurrection or judgment of the wicked dead. You’re stringing together unrelated passages to support a flawed system.

And regarding Hebrews 9:27, you’re right, it doesn’t say when the judgment happens. But when we let Scripture interpret Scripture, we see the timing laid out in Revelation 20. The fact that you’re so quick to accuse others of adding to the text while you’re inserting your own assumptions should be a warning. Stop scoffing at plain Scripture. The resurrection of the unjust is not something Paul or John made up, it’s part of God’s revealed plan. Just because you don’t like the order God gave doesn’t make it a “doctrine of men.” What I posted stands firmly on what is written.

I read what you wrote, and you tried to claim I was going against the written Bible Scripture, but I revealed instead that it was YOU... that goes against the written Bible Scripture with your attempt to use the Hebrews 9:27 verse to serve your FALSE AMIL DOCTRINES FROM MEN, when Revelation 20 reveals the wicked are not judged to perish until AFTER Christ's future "thousand years" reign, AS WRITTEN...

Rev 20:5-12
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV

So instead of trying to tell me to read, it is you that needs to do more reading in God's Word AS WRITTEN, and quit listening to men's doctrines.
 

Davy

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Jesus destroy's all the wicked at his return, read it again in your denial

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Your Bible is MISSING the Revelation 20 Chapter, no wonder YOU ARE SO DECEIVED!

Rev 20:1-9
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out
to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV
 

Truth7t7

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Your Bible is MISSING the Revelation 20 Chapter, no wonder YOU ARE SO DECEIVED!

Rev 20:1-9
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out
to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Go to a Concordance and see that the word is not “damnation” but “judgment”.

Strongs defines this word as…

“κρίσις krísis, kree'-sis; decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law):—accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.”

This is not a resurrection to simply sentence one to punishment for all the wrongs they committed in their ignorance.….
LOL. This is a very weak argument. The judgment that awaits the resurrection of the unjust dead when Jesus comes again is being cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41, Rev 20:15).

How do you go about explaining away Daniel 12:2? Do you try to make "shame and everlasting contempt" mean something different than what it says?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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We all should try to be meek, shouldn’t we?
But that wasn’t really my point…

These meek ones (at Matthew 5:5) will “inherit the earth.” And that “the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.” Psalm 37:11,29.

Your quote from Daniel 12, about those who will be resurrected “to everlasting contempt”, is informing us that those won’t learn meekness (they won’t truly conform their lives), so they will be judged adversely during Christ’s thousand year reign, & will ultimately be “consumed”, ie., destroyed. — Revelation 20:7-9

(Notice the “earth” is mentioned, twice: “those nations in the four corners of the earth”, & “the whole earth.”)

Revelation 21:3,4 says God’s “tent is with mankind.” Mankind are people on this planet.
What is the point of them being "judged adversely during Christ’s thousand year reign" if they just end up being destroyed, anyway? That's total nonsense.