Another Look at "The Origins of Giants After the flood"

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101G

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Ezekiel 31:11
[11] I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

?
Thanks for the post VJ. you're again knocking on the door of TRUTH.

God have Good and Evil angels to do his bidding.
Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

1Kgs 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Kgs 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Kgs 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Kgs 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Notice VJ it was the Lord who sent the spirt who lied in the mouth of the prophets. and remember VJ this took place in heaven......... (smile).

one more,
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

see a lot of people say, "the devil made me do that?" are you sure. but listen to this,
2Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie". why?
2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

just what the Ezekiel 31:11 verse you posted. "I have driven him out for his wickedness".

see, evil has a place in God's ecomony of things.

Be blessed.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Thanks for the post VJ. you're again knocking on the door of TRUTH.

God have Good and Evil angels to do his bidding.
Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

1Kgs 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Kgs 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Kgs 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Kgs 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Notice VJ it was the Lord who sent the spirt who lied in the mouth of the prophets. and remember VJ this took place in heaven......... (smile).

one more,
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

see a lot of people say, "the devil made me do that?" are you sure. but listen to this,
2Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie". why?
2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

just what the Ezekiel 31:11 verse you posted. "I have driven him out for his wickedness".

see, evil has a place in God's ecomony of things.

Be blessed.

Thank you.

Psalm 139:11-12
[11] If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. [12] Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee .

Matthew 6:22
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
 

CoreIssue

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How about the simple answer, genetics. Which accounts for general population's with blond hair, blue eyes, pygmies and more.

As pointed out there were many giants in the OT. But they sure did not descend from the giants before the flood. And they were very human.

Also factor in how the human lifespan decreased after the flood. So would not as well the hide a person could reach decline.

Remember, god created Adam far superior to any one that lives today that.

And his children intermarried which any geneticists would tell you has serious repercussions.

In fact you reached the point where god forbid people from marrying third Cousins and closer.
 

CoreIssue

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Thanks for the post VJ. you're again knocking on the door of TRUTH.

God have Good and Evil angels to do his bidding.
Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

1Kgs 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Kgs 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Kgs 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Kgs 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Notice VJ it was the Lord who sent the spirt who lied in the mouth of the prophets. and remember VJ this took place in heaven......... (smile).

one more,
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

see a lot of people say, "the devil made me do that?" are you sure. but listen to this,
2Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie". why?
2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

just what the Ezekiel 31:11 verse you posted. "I have driven him out for his wickedness".

see, evil has a place in God's ecomony of things.

Be blessed.
Fallen angels are bound in the pit and have been since the war in heaven, which was pre adamic.

Demons are not fallen angels. Fallen angels and demons are never equated any where in the bible.
 

101G

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Thank you.

Psalm 139:11-12
[11] If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. [12] Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee .

Matthew 6:22
[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
angels evil as well as good are under the control of God. Ecclesiasticus 39:28 "There be spirits that are created for vengeance, which in their fury lay on sore strokes; in the time of destruction they pour out their force, and appease the wrath of him that made them".
 

101G

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How about the simple answer, genetics. Which accounts for general population's with blond hair, blue eyes, pygmies and more.

As pointed out there were many giants in the OT. But they sure did not descend from the giants before the flood. And they were very human.

Also factor in how the human lifespan decreased after the flood. So would not as well the hide a person could reach decline.

Remember, god created Adam far superior to any one that lives today that.

And his children intermarried which any geneticists would tell you has serious repercussions.

In fact you reached the point where god forbid people from marrying third Cousins and closer.
I agree, to a point. but I have a theory about all of gigantism when it started in the Garden, and what was made available to eat.

yes, my answer lay in genetic with gigantism. but it's only speculation right now.

but good point.
 

101G

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Fallen angels are bound in the pit and have been since the war in heaven, which was pre adamic.

Demons are not fallen angels. Fallen angels and demons are never equated any where in the bible.
I know this, only an unclean spirit is equated with demons, which are spirits. and they zero in on humans Affection. which is a permanent bent of the mind, formed by the presence of an object, or by some act of another person, and existing without the presence of its object.

but as to "fallen angel"? the bible is clear,
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment".
 

quietthinker

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(destroyed fruit from above)Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (and his roots from beneath)Ephesians 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?



‘Giants’ maybe has nothing at all to do with the visual but everything to do anything that exalts itself higher than God or above Him. There are ‘giants’ today which has nothing to do with natural height; giants lifted up in high places, exalted above the oppressed and poor and broken which He said do not fear these ‘giants’ in the land. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them(the giants): because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Ezekiel 17:24
[24] And all the trees of the field shall know that I the Lord have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the Lord have spoken and have done it .
Yes ViJ, one can apply this understanding in some ways just as one can apply the expression 'beasts' in a symbolic way but 101G's references are referring to physical size, like, lotsa meat on tall bones :) ....the measurements given and quoted make this quiet plain.
 

quietthinker

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“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” (Genesis 6:4) (NASB95)

This would explain giants after the flood. Also some think the dead Nephilim became the origin of demons that roam the earth.
Firstly Dave, I don't know who the Nephilim are (i'm wondering if you have more information on this than I do?)....secondly, the 'sons of God' reference I'm persuaded is speaking of men that have God in their hearts as per Noah or Abraham whereas the 'sons of men' reference is speaking of those who not have God in their hearts as lets say, Esau or Cain.
I think assuming Nephilim = 'sons of God' is in error.
The 'Sons of God' expression can also be used for the angels but does that mean they are male?
Jesus mentions that the angels do not marry or are given in marriage. Can we deduct from that that they are neuter as regards to sex?

The human genome has variety in a range of areas eg, hair colour, texture...curly or straight. Eye colour, skin colour, thin frame thick frame, short and tall, facial types etc etc and then there are exceptions which pop up every now and again which defy logic.
 

Enoch111

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Jesus mentions that the angels do not marry or are given in marriage. Can we deduct from that that they are neuter as regards to sex?
No what it simply means is that angels were never intended to marry, and there are no female angels. All angels are MALE and have supernatural powers. As as example study the destruction of the army of Sennacherib.

In the OT, *sons of God* is a very specific technical term for angels, since they are direct creations of God (no fathers and mothers). And they are contrasted with *daughters of men* or human women. Genesis 6 clearly reveals unlawful sexual relations between angels (presumably having taken human form) and women. Thus their offspring were very remarkable -- giants and men of renown. These angels are identified as *the angels which sinned* (Peter) or *the angels which kept not their first estate* (Jude).

In contrast, in the OT, the righteous are never called *sons of God* but *the righteous* or *the just* or *the saints*, or *the saints of the Most High*. It is only in the NT that those who have been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit are called *sons of God*. There was no New Birth in the Old Covenant, and it is a part of the New Covenant, which included the promised gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

quietthinker

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All angels are MALE
I'm not persuaded angels are male Enoch. Why would they not be neuter?
Your position would mean that angels have sperm that is compatible with human females....Nahhhh, that's drawing a long bow.
 
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Dave L

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Firstly Dave, I don't know who the Nephilim are (i'm wondering if you have more information on this than I do?)....secondly, the 'sons of God' reference I'm persuaded is speaking of men that have God in their hearts as per Noah or Abraham whereas the 'sons of men' reference is speaking of those who not have God in their hearts as lets say, Esau or Cain.
I think assuming Nephilim = 'sons of God' is in error.
The 'Sons of God' expression can also be used for the angels but does that mean they are male?
Jesus mentions that the angels do not marry or are given in marriage. Can we deduct from that that they are neuter as regards to sex?

The human genome has variety in a range of areas eg, hair colour, texture...curly or straight. Eye colour, skin colour, thin frame thick frame, short and tall, facial types etc etc and then there are exceptions which pop up every now and again which defy logic.

Sons of God existed before creation of the universe.
“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4–7) (KJV 1900)

“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.” (Job 2:1) (KJV 1900)

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” (Genesis 6:4) (NASB95)
 
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Dave L

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Lab test result #2. no angel nor any sons of God were created before the foundation of the heavens or the earth was made. supportive scripture, and we are speaking of an anointed cherub, LISTEN to your Lab Result,
Ezek 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezek 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

see verse 13 dave, it said in the "DAY" he was created. God created/made everything in "DAY" that's 1-7 so no angel was created/made in a "DAY" before the creation of the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. then afterward the "DAY" came :eek: o_O that's right angels was made in the "DAY", and not before creation.


now if you're banking on the sons of God in Job 38, Lab Result #3. read my post in the Christian Spirituality Forum under the topic, "Do you believe in aliens?" page 4 Post #71.
If unbelievers mating with believers produced giants, you could prove what you say. But statistics obviously prove you are wrong.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all.

now that we have Goliath, and king Og of Bashan, an “Amorite" down pretty good. These two scripture I must drive home again. Gen 9:18 ¶ And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
Gen 9:19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

Other words anyone who was born on this planet came from one of these three boys mention here in these two verses. But notice how the verse says, “and Ham is the father of Canaan“. why add this? In all my research so far, all the Giants are trace back to this man, “Canaan”, Ham son. Interesting observation.

these are the next giants we will look at “the sons of Anak”. scripture, Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. The verse said “in their own sight”.

the most controversial giants in the bible are the sons of Anak, why?. Many people say, “where did they come from, they just came out of no where? Well let’s see. The key word to zero in on is the name “Anak”. if we discover who he is then we can find out about his sons. Anak is the Hebrew word, H6061 עָנָק `Anaq (aw-nawk') n/p. meaning Anak = "neck", Anak, a Canaanite. progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan.

Ok, we get that “Anak” is Canaanite, but where in the bible, the word of God, dose it say this for sure?.
Num 13:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 13:2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them.

So we know that the children of Israel was sent to spy out the Land of Canaan. Let’s continue and pick up at verse 22.
Num 13:22 And they ascended by the south, and came unto Hebron; where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, were. (Now Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.)

This verse holds important information. Coming by Hebron; where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak were. Take note of the names of the children of Anak. The children of Anak was in “Hebron”. scripture, , Judg 1:10 And Judah went against the Canaanites that dwelt in Hebron: (now the name of Hebron before was Kirjatharba:) and they slew Sheshai, and Ahiman, and Talmai. Remember these was the the sons of Anak, and and they dwelt there in Hebron, and they was Canaanites. so the bible confirm for us that the sons of Anak was Canaanites, but did they have an earthly orgin.

Evidence #1. they, these giants was Canaanites But here’s the catch. Here in Judg 1:10, Hebron, before it was renamed by Judah invasion, it was knows as Kirjatharba, so who is Kirjatharba that this city was named after, let’s see.
H7153 קִריַת אַרבַּע Qiryath 'Arba` (keer-yath' ar-bah') n/l.
קִריַת הָאַרבַּע Qiryath ha'Arba` (keer-yath' haw-ar-bah') [
1. city of Arba, or city of the four (giants).
2. Kirjath-Arba or Kirjath-ha-Arba, a place in Israel.

the city of the four (giants). Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, which are the sons of Anak. So Anak, and his three sons lived in Kirjatharba, which was in Canaan.

But the question remain, Who is “Arba? answer, After the conquest of the promise land, Scripture, Josh 21:9 And they gave out of the tribe of the children of Judah, and out of the tribe of the children of Simeon, these cities which are here mentioned by name,
Josh 21:10 Which the children of Aaron, being of the families of the Kohathites, who were of the children of Levi, had: for theirs was the first lot.
Josh 21:11 And they gave them the city of Arba the father of Anak, which city is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, with the suburbs thereof round about it.
So Arba, according to the bible was Anak father, grandfather of Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, they all lived in Kirjatharba which is now known as Hebron.

So the sons of Anak, (the Giants), came from the earthly man “Arba” who son was Anak, and he had three sons Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, which are the sons of Anak who was a Canaanite in orgin, because the Canaanites dwelt in Hebron. Norman tall men with earthly fathers.

Knowing this, it bring us back to the genealogy list in Gen 10:6. "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan". This is where the Canaanite came from, the man Canaan. But there was many offspring that was Canaanite. Scripture,
Gen 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
Gen 10:16 And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, (remember king Og was an Amorite), and the Girgasite,
Gen 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
Gen 10:18 And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad. (so there was many off-shoot of Canaanites and many of them was “GIANTS”).
Gen 10:19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.
Gen 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

Ham is the man of Giants. one more Giant of Ham decent we will take at look at, for it takes us to, or rather from Egypt.
1Chr 11:22 Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the son of a valiant man of Kabzeel, who had done many acts; he slew two lionlike men of Moab: also he went down and slew a lion in a pit in a snowy day.
1Chr 11:23 And he slew an Egyptian, a man of great stature, five cubits high; and in the Egyptian's hand was a spear like a weaver's beam; and he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear.

This ordinary man, an Israelite slew this Egyptian, a man of great stature, who was 5 cubit tall.
Conversion, 7’ 6” tall. The exact same height of the basketball player Yao Ming who is 7’ 5” so, if Yao Ming and some of the other NBA Basketball player would have live back then they would be considered GIANTS also.

One other thing that set this Egyptian apart, he had a spear like a weaver's beam. What other famous giant carried this type weapon?.
1Sam 17:4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
1Sam 17:5 And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass.
1Sam 17:6 And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders.
1Sam 17:7 And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.

The Egyptian man and Goliath both came from Ham. Let’s see. Gen 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan. Looking up Mizraim, it’s H4714 מִצרַיִם Mitsrayim (mits-rah'-yim) adj.
Mitsrajim, i.e. Upper and Lower Egypt.
[dual of H4693]
KJV: Egypt, Egyptians, Mizraim
So the Egyptian, as well as Goliath, the Philistines came from the man HAM.

all of these giants can be trace back to earthly parents. no angel intervention. remember the scripture, Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

now if we have giants after the flood and there was no angelic interbreeding then it was none before the flood, which mean that the "sons of God" in Genesis chapter 6 are earthly men just like those after the flood.

Next time, Lord willing, the “sons of God” before the flood.
 

101G

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If unbelievers mating with believers produced giants, you could prove what you say. But statistics obviously prove you are wrong.
first thanks for the response, second, believing and none believing has nothing to do with genetic, or may I say to a point.

but the believing and none believer is a off track to what I been saying all along. there are two lines from Adam. 1. a line that was not born in sin, who was born in the garden of Eden, "ALIVE" to God in spirit, hence the term (sons of God). and 2. a line that was born in sin, who was born outside the Garden of Eden, "Cut off" from God, hence the term (daughters of men).

so tomorrow we will examine if Adam and Eve had children who was born alive to God in the Garden of Eden, who are the Sons of God according to chapter 6 of Genesis.

if you like, as said before, this imformation is found right in your bible. Genesis 3:16 and Genesis 3:20.

so, if we prove that Adam and Eve had children in the Garden before they had Cain and Abel outside the garden, then it will show where Cain got his wife, and it will show who the other people are mention in Genesis 4:14, but more so, it will show who the "sons of God are in chapter 6.

so until then.
 
D

Dave L

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first thanks for the response, second, believing and none believing has nothing to do with genetic, or may I say to a point.

but the believing and none believer is a off track to what I been saying all along. there are two lines from Adam. 1. a line that was not born in sin, who was born in the garden of Eden, "ALIVE" to God in spirit, hence the term (sons of God). and 2. a line that was born in sin, who was born outside the Garden of Eden, "Cut off" from God, hence the term (daughters of men).

so tomorrow we will examine if Adam and Eve had children who was born alive to God in the Garden of Eden, who are the Sons of God according to chapter 6 of Genesis.

if you like, as said before, this imformation is found right in your bible. Genesis 3:16 and Genesis 3:20.

so, if we prove that Adam and Eve had children in the Garden before they had Cain and Abel outside the garden, then it will show where Cain got his wife, and it will show who the other people are mention in Genesis 4:14, but more so, it will show who the "sons of God are in chapter 6.

so until then.
If you begin with the "sons of God" in Job, the oldest book in the bible supposedly, it will define the sons of God in Genesis. You are launching out from a wrong place and building on it.
 

101G

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If you begin with the "sons of God" in Job, the oldest book in the bible supposedly, it will define the sons of God in Genesis. You are launching out from a wrong place and building on it.
the book of Job might be the old book in the bible but it's not the oldest with the "creation" account.

and speaking about Job who was a "son of God" he's after the flood... :D

so there was sons of God after the flood as well as before the flood.
 
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Dave L

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the book of Job might be the old book in the bible but it's not the oldest with the "creation" account.

and speaking about Job who was a "son of God" he's after the flood... :D

so there was sons of God after the flood as well as before the flood.
But not of the sort you speak of. These existed before creation as God tells Job.
 

101G

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But not of the sort you speak of existing before creation where God tells Job they did.
Dave no man or angel was made before the creation of the heaven and the earth. now what exact "Day" the angels was made on I don't know, but I do know what what "Day" man was made on... DAY 3.