I'm not
"weaseling" out of
anything.
I
objected plainly to
YOUR statement:
"You yourself fail to grasp that the Jews NEVER though he was God Almighty even once. There is no God Almighty realization in any of the Jews' speech, explicitly or implicitly said."
I
never said that the Jews
thought He was God or came to that
"realization". They
rejected the idea.
NOT sure why
YOU said they
did . . .
I
DO see how you
used this to
avoid addressing the
2 passages I presented, though. Care to
address them
now??
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my GOD!”
If Jesus was NOT God - He would have rebuked Thomas for BLASPHEMY.
Titus 2:13
. . . waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great GOD and Savior Jesus Christ.
According to the Biblical principle of the Granville Sharp's Rule:
"When the copulative KAI connects two nouns of the same case, if the article HO or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle".
In other words - in the case of "God and Savior Jesus Christ", the "God and Savior" is referring to the SAME person: Jesus Christ.
I eagerly await your response . . .
Back again for a spell...
Well at least you are providing a wee bit of depth to your reasoning BOL. Although I would say it is still very inadequate for any useful discussion. I could do the same although I believe I need to go much deeper because one of these days some of this might persuade you because you never considered some of it. And that would be a great thing indeed.
I will discuss/ or reply to Titus 2:13 here. This can be some extensive writing although I will try to be brief. John 20:28 is much easier to explain and I can reply to that later if you do not mind.
Titus 2:13 is one of several other verses that is laden with arguably both some ambiguity and some controversy to boot because of the following factors. These can be settled however by allowing scripture to interpret itself and with other supporting scripture along with the all-important context evaluated.
For starters, there are ‘basically’ (there are variants of these) two major forms in the English translation of this verse. There are two areas of contention. Is the word ‘glorious’ used as an adjective or a noun as ‘glory?”
Secondly, this is what you regard as your ace in the hole I presume, using the so-called Granville Sharp Rule from the late 18th century. And you believe it applies here. We’ll see. I wonder if you know what you have here? I surmise you found this nifty grammatical device that furthers your cause to convince others that this application proves that the Jesus is God Almighty. You mighty want to slow down a bit and look at it in more detail. You are hanging your belief on a man-made grammatical controversial rule or axiom. Not everyone agrees with it, believe me.
Back to some of the different translations of Titus 2:13.
There is the Catholic Douay-Rheims, New American Bible, Moffatt, Revised versions and others that translate Titus 2:13 that use ‘glory’ the noun. Here are just a few translations of this type:
(DRB) Looking for the blessed hope and coming of
the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
(ASV) looking for the blessed hope and appearing of
the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(BBE) Looking for the glad hope, the revelation of
the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;
Then there is the NIV, KJV and the Amplified version etc., that use ‘glorious’ as the adjective. Here are some translations:
(KJV) Looking for that blessed hope, and
the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(CEV) We are filled with hope, as we wait for
the glorious return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
(ISV) as we wait for the blessed hope and
glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.
I prefer the former translation where ‘glory’ is the noun as in the Catholic Douay-Rheims version and even the NIV types. “….the glory of our great God, and Savior, Jesus Christ.” Why, because it supports other parts of scripture whilst the other stands out as a sore thumb as being incongruent with the gospel and other writing in the NT concerning the future reappearance of Jesus Christ, as
the glory of God, and
not the visible appearance of God Almighty (as this the impression it gives).
Also, Titus 2: 14 speaks of Jesus Christ alone, giving up his life for us; not his Father or God Almighty. This reinforces the meaning in verse 13 in that we expect the appearance as our blessed hope of Jesus Christ as our direct deliver, and not God himself directly.
Further, those reading Paul’s words would have been puzzled if he meant God himself would appear in the future as our Blessed hope, instead of the Lamb of God, they called their Lord and Savior. It is Jesus Christ we will ‘see’ and experience, as the Son of God in immortality and in
the glory of God. We won’t see both God Almighty and Jesus Christ reappear either; only Jesus in God’s glory.
Now here is where I reinforce this concept that only Jesus Christ will reappear as our Blessed hope by viewing its context.
The basic context of Titus Chapter 2 is this: Folks were remined to live their lives according to two events in their lives. And also, to be ‘godly’ all their lives. To rid themselves of ungodliness in any form and from any source. Further, two revelations and appearances are given to them, and us.
The first was given to them (and us) by God Almighty as his grace, revealed as the gospel of life, the word of God that is the merciful and loving plan of salvation, fulfilled by the glorious and holy birth and appearance of his Son and trusted agent Jesus Christ (Titus 2:11). Jesus is the glory of God as in John 1:14b. Those living around
Christ were witnessing
the glory of God through his Son, teaching the gospel and performing signs and wonders, and eventually dying for all of us, and then ascending from the depths and resurrecting into heaven.
The other is in the future and written in Titus 2:13. It is the logical conclusion of their and our, blessed hope in eternal life with Jesus. It is the second of two glorious appearances or revelations given by God Almighty as his word, through his Son and agent Jesus Christ. They and us await the future glorious (re)appearance or
the glory of God,
his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. He resurrected from this earth into glory at the right hand of God and he will reappear in the same glory and in the power of God Almighty.
Now to the so-called Granville Sharp Rule was developed by 1798.
This so-called Granville Sharp Rule stated as in a mathematical statement:
Article (
ho) + noun1 + and (
kai) + noun2 (in Greek not English format)
: if the definite article (
ho,
or its variant) precedes only the first noun, joined by the conjunction (usually) ‘and,’ and not the second noun, then the reference is to one person..ALWAYS. Talk about rigidity eh?
continued....
