Another Merry god Incarnated Baby Born Celebration?

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Helen

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Oh, its bold and brazen Mary again. As you look down to the peasants in the streets from your ivory tower, are you also thinking you have the truth and understand what it is to be a true believer in God then? Why don't you humble a little and share this truth with others lest your fall be a huge one.

I do hope you have a great New Year though

Bless you,

APAK

Doesn't it make you smile on here when you read a person saying to another person.."You claim to be a Christian" OR " Are you are Christian?"

It always flips me back to the Adversary in the wilderness saying to Jesus, -
"IF you be the son of God then.." Trying to get Him to 'prove' who He was.

The Adversary will continue to do that to us , right to our last breath.

Wishing you and yours a very blessed and victorious 2019.

Bless you...H
 
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APAK

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Doesn't it make you smile on here when you read a person saying to another person.."You claim to be a Christian" OR " Are you are Christian?"

It always flips me back to the Adversary in the wilderness saying to Jesus, -
"IF you be the son of God then.." Trying to get Him to 'prove' who He was.

The Adversary will continue to do that to us , right to our last breath.

Wishing you and yours a very blessed and victorious 2019.

Bless you...H
Yes Helen a blessed new year to you and your husband in that white stuff country I read about on the weather channel. I'm here in @Willie T country where we had 82 degree today. Even cleaned off the front porch today...wife wants the place looking good for one of her sisters visiting from Montana next month.

….Back to your point..as if some of these folks, NOT ALL, are not really confident or happy in their beliefs so they have to keep inquiring about them by criticizing some other person's different beliefs to find some fault that will assure them a 'high.' Its like a cyclic thing where a high is required once in a while. And then the truth is still no closer to them even though it as far as taking the log out of their own eye to 'see' for the first time...

APAK
 
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APAK

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Bold and brazen?? B&B.....I like it...:)

You claim to be Christian but your post seems to be saying that Jesus is not God even though he said (scripture says) he is God.

How do you rectify your belief and Jesus words which are opposite of each other? How can you claim to be a Christian when you deny what Christ said?

Maybe I misunderstood your post. Do you think Jesus is God?

B&B Mary
Mary, you know that there is no explicit scripture where Jesus calls himself God Almighty. You know he is the Son, not the Father or God the creator. He truly cannot be both the Son and the Father. Although you are at liberty to bring out a handful of misunderstood or deliberately changed scripture to try and force Jesus into God again. I will entertain it, although I've been doing this for years now and it is kind of tiring.

Bless you,

APAK
 

Marymog

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Mary, you know that there is no explicit scripture where Jesus calls himself God Almighty. You know he is the Son, not the Father or God the creator. He truly cannot be both the Son and the Father. Although you are at liberty to bring out a handful of misunderstood or deliberately changed scripture to try and force Jesus into God again. I will entertain it, although I've been doing this for years now and it is kind of tiring.

Bless you,

APAK
I AM...explicit enough??
 

APAK

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I AM...explicit enough??
Explicitly incorrect!

So you have taken our the worn-out the famous Exodus 3:14 verse, forced to connect to Jesus' words, say in John 8:24 or say John 8:58 card.

You should know Mary that in Hebrew the expression used for God Almighty of 'I will be what I will be' (I am who I am) had NO commonality at all with the very common Greek expression used for any person and translated in to English as 'I am' or 'I am he.' The former is a title for God Almighty. The latter means that th at ANY person speaking or under question is definitely that person, the only person fitting the bill, with extreme prejudice. It is like saying, Mary, I don't believe you are the strongest supporter of Catholicism on this forum. You reply by saying, yes I am the only one that really supports it with vigor and I have many 'likes' to prove it. You have to believe that I am (her). Get the picture?

Is it not odd that some translations of John 8:58 end with capitalized 'I AM.' Even some have "I AM' capitalized in other parts of scripture. This of course is deliberate to clearly convey the well-established and entrenched Trinity bias. If I did not know why it was done, I would say it was developed by a cult.

That should be explicit enough I hope in my response.

I'm think of doing a short expose of just a few verses, say John 1:1-3 for some good scripture study. Like going back into the development of the English translations a bit and revealing why the main-stream translations of today, of these verses, are either incorrect or folks take away the wrong meaning(s)....

Bless you,

APAK
 

Marymog

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Explicitly incorrect!

So you have taken our the worn-out the famous Exodus 3:14 verse, forced to connect to Jesus' words, say in John 8:24 or say John 8:58 card.

You should know Mary that in Hebrew the expression used for God Almighty of 'I will be what I will be' (I am who I am) had NO commonality at all with the very common Greek expression used for any person and translated in to English as 'I am' or 'I am he.' The former is a title for God Almighty. The latter means that th at ANY person speaking or under question is definitely that person, the only person fitting the bill, with extreme prejudice. It is like saying, Mary, I don't believe you are the strongest supporter of Catholicism on this forum. You reply by saying, yes I am the only one that really supports it with vigor and I have many 'likes' to prove it. You have to believe that I am (her). Get the picture?

Is it not odd that some translations of John 8:58 end with capitalized 'I AM.' Even some have "I AM' capitalized in other parts of scripture. This of course is deliberate to clearly convey the well-established and entrenched Trinity bias. If I did not know why it was done, I would say it was developed by a cult.

That should be explicit enough I hope in my response.

I'm think of doing a short expose of just a few verses, say John 1:1-3 for some good scripture study. Like going back into the development of the English translations a bit and revealing why the main-stream translations of today, of these verses, are either incorrect or folks take away the wrong meaning(s)....

Bless you,

APAK
Your theory was debunked a LONG time ago....you and your ilk are in the minority and preach heretical OPINIONS....try again.
 

APAK

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Your theory was debunked a LONG time ago....you and your ilk are in the minority and preach heretical OPINIONS....try again.
Typical Mary. Just loud words and no substance and explanation. Quite interesting in twisting things upside down and around. You must know YOUURS IS the theory and false support for the Trinity or at least Jesus =God. It is not my theory. I just defy and debunk it as a lie. You keeping clinging onto it as fake proof and your is debunked with substance and scripture, and the usage of language.

Good night

APAK
 

Deborah_

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Mary, you know that there is no explicit scripture where Jesus calls himself God Almighty. You know he is the Son, not the Father or God the creator. He truly cannot be both the Son and the Father. Although you are at liberty to bring out a handful of misunderstood or deliberately changed scripture to try and force Jesus into God again. I will entertain it, although I've been doing this for years now and it is kind of tiring.

Bless you,

APAK

You should know that no Trinitarian believes that Jesus is both the Son and the Father.
 
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APAK

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You should know that no Trinitarian believes that Jesus is both the Son and the Father.
Ok more entertainment....yes they end up being the same God in the end, right? That has to be ludicrous. Reminds me that Trinitarians are close cousins to Modalists; believing different forms or states of the same God.

APAK
 

farouk

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You should know that no Trinitarian believes that Jesus is both the Son and the Father.
True; I think some of the confusion lies in how the term 'everlasting Father' is understood in Isaiah 9.6 (i.e., father of eternity, showing the Lord Jesus's preeminence in eternity).
 

Deborah_

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Ok more entertainment....yes they end up being the same God in the end, right? That has to be ludicrous. Reminds me that Trinitarians are close cousins to Modalists; believing different forms or states of the same God.

APAK

You may well find it ludicrous; but that is, nevertheless, what we believe. Jesus (the Son) is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; yet the Son is not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is neither the Son nor the Father. That is the most concise definition of the Trinity that I know of.

These are not mathematical equations (where you can swap the different sides around the "=" sign and the meaning remains the same). They are statements: you can say that "Jesus is God", but you can't say that "God is Jesus" because God is not ONLY Jesus.

From where you're standing perhaps we do seem close to modalism; but from where we're standing the distinction is quite clear. If you're attacking modalism you won't hit us.
 

APAK

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True; I think some of the confusion lies in how the term 'everlasting Father' is understood in Isaiah 9.6 (i.e., father of eternity, showing the Lord Jesus's preeminence in eternity).

farouk: you just might want to be careful in taking for granted that the all scripture you are using to support your theories has not been contaminated with, as in Isaiah 9:6.

In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is never called the “Everlasting Father” anywhere in scripture; explicitly or implicitly.

The phrase is mistranslated with a Trinitarian bias. The word translated “everlasting” is actually “age,” and the correct translation is that Jesus will be called “father of the (coming) age.”

In simple modern understanding and meaning this means Jesus was destined to be the father of all eternal life for new believers. He founded it, he was the father of it. Jesus is the head of the Church in the age of grace.

It was common then and today that if a person started something or was very significant in its start then they are called ‘the father’ of it.

I would not use Isaiah 9:6 for any Trinitarian support if I were you. There is another phrase in it that is grossly mistranslated as well.

Bless you,

APAK
 

Marymog

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Typical Mary. Just loud words and no substance and explanation. Quite interesting in twisting things upside down and around. You must know YOUURS IS the theory and false support for the Trinity or at least Jesus =God. It is not my theory. I just defy and debunk it as a lie. You keeping clinging onto it as fake proof and your is debunked with substance and scripture, and the usage of language.

Good night

APAK
Please stop.....The more you write the more you show how much you don't know about scripture. You are publically embarrassing yourself.

Scripture is very clear on this subject. The theory you have adopted from previous heretics was debunked as blasphemy a LONG time ago. Why do you insist on repeating a blasphemy?

John 12:45

Bible study Mary
 

APAK

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Please stop.....The more you write the more you show how much you don't know about scripture. You are publically embarrassing yourself.

Scripture is very clear on this subject. The theory you have adopted from previous heretics was debunked as blasphemy a LONG time ago. Why do you insist on repeating a blasphemy?

John 12:45

Bible study Mary
You know you need get over yourself and stop your whining Mary. You do not have the high-road on scripture Mary in the least.

You need for once present evidence of your theory(ies) Mary and stop trying again attempting to twist my words and meanings as you have done in the past. I have no theories to prove of any consequence. It is very apparent you are frustrated with my scripture analysis. I just keep debunking your ill-formed or no-form of an argument. Just listing scripture won't cut it I'm afraid.

You say in your typical style, "Scripture is very clear on this subject." And that is the depth of your argument. How can I take you seriously with this statement?! Explain yourself please or shut up.

Lets see your latest scripture you have presented that I guess supports your view of Jesus is God. You at least need to acknowledge that this is your purpose. I will assume this is it, if you do not answer.

Ok John 12:45 speaks of Jesus saying if you see me you are seeing his Father. What is it that you want me contest or understand or 'see' here?

Jesus is the perfect image of God as humanly possible. His mind is with God and he thinks and acts like his Father..etc. Jesus speak his Father's words when his Father wants him to. Jesus reflects his Father. completely. This is similar to John 1:18, that no one has seem the Father and that Jesus has revealed/explained him to us.

John 12:46 says as a parallel to John 1:5, that Jesus was born (by his Father) as/with the source of eternal life for mankind (given by his Father). He brought this life into the fallen world (darkness).

So what is your point here? I hope you are not jumping to a wild conclusion that Jesus is saying he is God in any of this scripture?

If that is the case, you have a real problem in understanding scripture. Maybe you should start by understanding the context in John Chapter 12 first.


Bless you,

APAK
 

Deborah_

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In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is never called the “Everlasting Father” anywhere in scripture; explicitly or implicitly.

The phrase is mistranslated with a Trinitarian bias. The word translated “everlasting” is actually “age,” and the correct translation is that Jesus will be called “father of the (coming) age.”

So you don't know Hebrew, evidently. The word translated 'everlasting' is 'ad', which actually means 'always' or 'for ever' (or 'everlasting'). It's also used to describe mountains in Habakkuk 3:6. The translators of the Bible don't make silly mistakes because of a supposed 'Trinitarian bias'; the familiar translation is correct!

If you get your facts wrong, is it any surprise that your conclusions are wrong?
 

Marymog

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You know you need get over yourself and stop your whining Mary. You do not have the high-road on scripture Mary in the least.

You need for once present evidence of your theory(ies) Mary and stop trying again attempting to twist my words and meanings as you have done in the past. I have no theories to prove of any consequence. It is very apparent you are frustrated with my scripture analysis. I just keep debunking your ill-formed or no-form of an argument. Just listing scripture won't cut it I'm afraid.

You say in your typical style, "Scripture is very clear on this subject." And that is the depth of your argument. How can I take you seriously with this statement?! Explain yourself please or shut up.

Lets see your latest scripture you have presented that I guess supports your view of Jesus is God. You at least need to acknowledge that this is your purpose. I will assume this is it, if you do not answer.

Ok John 12:45 speaks of Jesus saying if you see me you are seeing his Father. What is it that you want me contest or understand or 'see' here?

Jesus is the perfect image of God as humanly possible. His mind is with God and he thinks and acts like his Father..etc. Jesus speak his Father's words when his Father wants him to. Jesus reflects his Father. completely. This is similar to John 1:18, that no one has seem the Father and that Jesus has revealed/explained him to us.

John 12:46 says as a parallel to John 1:5, that Jesus was born (by his Father) as/with the source of eternal life for mankind (given by his Father). He brought this life into the fallen world (darkness).

So what is your point here? I hope you are not jumping to a wild conclusion that Jesus is saying he is God in any of this scripture?

If that is the case, you have a real problem in understanding scripture. Maybe you should start by understanding the context in John Chapter 12 first.

Bless you,

APAK
From whom did you receive your training on Scripture interpretation??

Here is another one for you to twist: JOHN 10:30

My prayers are with you....Mary
 

APAK

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So you don't know Hebrew, evidently. The word translated 'everlasting' is 'ad', which actually means 'always' or 'for ever' (or 'everlasting'). It's also used to describe mountains in Habakkuk 3:6. The translators of the Bible don't make silly mistakes because of a supposed 'Trinitarian bias'; the familiar translation is correct!

If you get your facts wrong, is it any surprise that your conclusions are wrong?

Mary I would not too upset just get. Thanks for pointing this out as I was in a rush to make my point before. I actually did forget to add the word 'eternal' in how the phrase should be translated as I stated before. Jesus is the father of the 'eternal' coming age. It will stand eternally or 'forever.' My bad. And I must point out Mary that in Hebrew, 'forever' or 'eternal' can be scaled in scope and used as a relative term. i.e not forever but based on changing conditions, if met, There are other examples of this in the OT. I'm sure you might know of some.

Still Mary, Jesus is not the same as the 'everlasting Father' in any shape or form as I was pointing out. Or Jesus is not God as these Trinitarian translators would have us believe.

Good rest of your day.

Bless you,

APAK
 

APAK

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From whom did you receive your training on Scripture interpretation??

Here is another one for you to twist: JOHN 10:30

My prayers are with you....Mary
Yes, the classic John 10:30 verse. Again I would advise you to look at the context surrounding this verse first. Very important.
I'll tell you what Mary, instead of me explaining this verse without nothing from yourself again, let me quote someone else since you must believe I'm not credible. I must warn you this this is a little extensive. It is an explanation that I've put before here, on this Chat site.

"...There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

2. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep...."

Bless you,

APAK
 

Marymog

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Yes, the classic John 10:30 verse. Again I would advise you to look at the context surrounding this verse first. Very important.
I'll tell you what Mary, instead of me explaining this verse without nothing from yourself again, let me quote someone else since you must believe I'm not credible. I must warn you this this is a little extensive. It is an explanation that I've put before here, on this Chat site.

"...There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

2. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep...."

Bless you,

APAK
Are you embarrassed to reveal from whom did you receive your training on Scripture interpretation??

Curious Mary
 

APAK

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Are you embarrassed to reveal from whom did you receive your training on Scripture interpretation??

Curious Mary
Ok the last time for a bit if you are just going to bark with idle chat...I've been completely forward and honest with you.

My source(s) of training came from many varied sources Mary. Many decades of prayer, in the Bible(s), reviewing many sources, reading many many books. This was my training and upbringing in scripture. It all started when one of my primary school teachers, Sister Salene (Convent school), tasked me to stand up and quote scripture in front of the entire class. Yes it was Gene 1:1 although this had a very positive impact on me and my future life.

It was stunning several years ago that the quote I just gave you on John 10:30 came from a stranger that I was stunned to find out he had the same views on scripture. It was stunning. I believe the spirit of God had a lot to do with it, bringing like-minded folks together. The label Catholic, Protestant whatever is not that important to me. it is what/ who that individual person believes in .

Bless you,

APAK
 
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