Apokatastasis in the early church

[St. SteVen]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,
Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Ultimate Redemption, Ultimate Reconciliation, UR...

There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.

Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Quotes from the early church fathers in the next post.


@Chadrho @Patrick1966

 

[St. SteVen]

Here are just a few quotes by the early church fathers, compiled by Gary Amirault’s diligent work, that discuss their beliefs about punishment and restoration in the afterlife:

The mass of men (Christians) say there is to be an end to punishment and to those who are punished.—St. Basil the Great

There are very many in our day, who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments. — Augustine (354-430 A.D.)

For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them…the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed to them. –Diodore of Tarsus, 320-394 A.D.

And God showed great kindness to man, in this, that He did not suffer him to continue being in sin forever; but as it were, by a kind of banishement, cast him out of paradise in order that, having punishment expiated within an appointed time, and having been disciplined, he should afterwards be recalled…just as a vessel, when one being fashioned it has some flaw, is remoulded or remade that it may become new and entire; so also it happens to man by death. For he is broken up by force, that in the resurrection he may be found whole; I mean spotless, righteous and immortal. –Theophilus of Antioch (168 A.D.)

Wherefore also he drove him out of paradise and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some dare assert, but because He pitied him and desired that he should not be immortal and the evil interminable and irremediable. –Iraneaus of Lyons (182 A.D.)

These, if they will, may go Christ’s way, but if not let them go their way. In another place perhaps they shall be baptized with fire, that last baptism, which is not only painful, but enduring also; which eats up, as if it were hay, all defiled matter, and consumes all vanity and vice. –Gregory of Nazianzeu, Bishop of Constantinople. (330 to 390 A.D.) Oracles 39:19

The Word seems to me to lay down the doctrine of the perfect obliteration of wickedness, for if God shall be in all things that are, obviously wickedness shall not be in them. For it is necessary that at some time evil should be removed utterly and entirely from the realm of being.—St. Macrina the Blessed

In the end and consummation of the Universe all are to be restored into their original harmonious state, and we all shall be made one body and be united once more into a perfect man and the prayer of our Savior shall be fulfilled that all may be one. –St. Jerome, 331-420

For it is evident that God will in truth be all in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with iteself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body. –Gregory of Nyssa, 335-390

The wicked who have committed evil the whole period of their lives shall be punished till they learn that, by continuing in sin, they only continue in misery. And when, by this means, they shall have been brought to fear God, and to regard Him with good will, they shall obtain the enjoyment of His grace. –Theodore of Mopsuestia, 350-428

We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer to redeem, to rescue, to discipline in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life. –Clement of Alexandria

Do not suppose that the soul is punished for endless eons (apeirou aionas) in Tartarus. Very properly, the soul is not punished to gratify the revenge of the divinity, but for the sake of healing. But we say that the soul is punished for an aionion period (aionios) calling its life and its allotted period of punishment, its aeon. –Olnmpiodorus (AD 550)

Wherefore, that at the same time liberty of free-will should be left to nature and yet the evil be purged away, the wisdom of God discovered this plan; to suffer man to do what he would, that having tasted the evil which he desired, and learning by experience for what wretchedness he had bartered away the blessings he had, he might of his own will hasten back with desire to the first blessedness …either being purged in this life through prayer and discipline, or after his departure hence through the furnace of cleansing fire.–Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.)

That in the world to come, those who have done evil all their life long, will be made worthy of the sweetness of the Divine bounty. For never would Christ have said, “You will never get out until you hqave paid the last penny” unless it were possible for us to get cleansed when we paid the debt. –Peter Chrysologus, 435

I know that most persons understand by the story of Nineveh and its king, the ultimate forgiveness of the devil and all rational creatures. –St. Jerome

“In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ’s blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other’s promotion. The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints.” – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)

Our Lord is the One who delivers man [all men], and who heals the inventor of evil himself. — Gregory of Nyssa (332-398 A.D.), leading theologian of the Eastern Church

While the devil thought to kill One [Christ], he is deprived of all those cast out of hades, and he [the devil] sitting by the gates, sees all fettered beings led forth by the courage of the Saviour.–Athanasius, the Great Father of Orthodoxy

Our Lord descends, and was shut up in the eternal bars, in order that He might set free all who had been shut up… The Lord descended to the place of punishment and torment, in which was the rich man, in order to liberate the prisoners. –Jerome

In the liberation of all no one remains a captive! At the time of the Lord’s passion the devil alone was injured by losing all the of the captives he was keeping. –Didymus, 370 AD

While the devil imagined that he got a hold of Christ, he really lost all of those he was keeping. –St. Chrysostom, 398 AD

 

[CadyandZoe]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,
Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Redemption, UR...

There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.

Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Quotes from the early church in the next post.


@Chadrho @Patrick1966

Whether an idea is old or new is not an arbiter of truth. But I maintain that the so-called "fathers" are unreliable sources of truth.

 

[MatthewG]

@St. SteVen, it is not a new idea, you are right.

While I don't believe in forever punishment - I do believe that God allows people to be outside the Kingdom who are faithless.

I believe that God has already reconciled everyone (the world) to himself through Christ - they have a choice. If anyone is wondering how that can be, they can visit down at the link in the signature.

I do believe the lake of fire is still viable today - but people don't stay there forever, otherwise it would be said by John the beloved, he says they "have their part", and that is a good thing to know.

I don't mind looking at the people from a long time ago and what they said, it's just information to be considered, but in the end people should be encouraged to seek truth in the bible (however that is just my opinion.)

 

[St. SteVen]

There may be some question about who these church fathers were, and their credibility.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Apostolic Fathers were Christian theologians who lived in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, who are believed to have personally known some of the Twelve Apostles, or to have been significantly influenced by them.[5] Their writings, though popular in Early Christianity, were ultimately not included in the canon of the New Testament once it reached its final form. Many of the writings derive from the same time period and geographical location as other works of early Christian literature that did come to be part of the New Testament, and some of the writings found among the Apostolic Fathers' seem to have been just as highly regarded as some of the writings that became the New Testament.

Clement of Alexandria​

Main article: Clement of Alexandria

Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215) was the first member of the church of Alexandria whose writings have survived, and was one of its most distinguished teachers. He saw wisdom in Greek philosophy and sought to harmonize it with Christian doctrine. Clement opposed Gnosticism, and yet used some of its terminology; for instance, he valued gnosis that with communion for all people could be held by common Christians. He developed a Christian Platonism[6] and has been described by scholars as "the founder of what was to become the great tradition of Christian philosophical theology."[19] Due to his teaching on salvation and divine judgement in passages such as Paedagogus 1.8 and Stromata 7.2, Clement is often regarded as one of the first Christian universalists.[20] Like Origen, he arose from the Catechetical School of Alexandria and was well-versed in pagan and biblical literature.[6]

Origen of Alexandria​

Main article: Origen

Origen, or Origen Adamantius (c. 185 – c. 254) was a scholar and theologian. According to tradition, he was an Egyptian[21] who taught in Alexandria, reviving the Catechetical School where Clement had taught. The patriarch of Alexandria at first supported Origen but later expelled him for being ordained without the patriarch's permission. He relocated to Caesarea Maritima and died there[22] after being tortured during a persecution. He later became a controversial figure and some of his writings were condemned as heretical. Using his knowledge of Hebrew, he produced a corrected Septuagint.[6] He wrote commentaries on all the books of the Bible.[6] In Peri Archon (First Principles), he articulated a systematic philosophical exposition of Christian doctrine.[6] He at times employed an allegorical hermeneutic in his interpretation of the Old Testament, and was partly influenced by Stoic, Neo-Pythagorean, and Platonist thought.[6] Like Plotinus, he has been thought to believe that the soul passes through successive stages before incarnation as a human and after death, eventually reaching God.[6] However, more recent scholarship has concluded that Origen actually denied the preexistence of disembodied souls, and simply taught the preexistence of individuals' logoi in the mind of God.[23] Yet Origen did suggest, based on 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, that all creatures, possibly including even the fallen angels, will eventually be restored and reunited to God when evil is finally eradicated. For Origen, God was the First Principle, and Christ, the Logos[6] through whom salvation is accomplished. Origen's various writings were interpreted by some to imply a hierarchical structure in the Trinity, the temporality of matter, "the fabulous preexistence of souls", and "the monstrous restoration which follows from it." These alleged "Origenist errors" were declared anathema by a council in 553, three centuries after Origen had died in the peace of the church.[24][25]

 

[St. SteVen]

History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution: the Creeds the Fathers

Also, as Clement of Alexandria pointed out, as the Greek had two words for 'punishment', the first retributive (timoria), the second corrective (kolasin), that the NT never uses the first. And correction has an object, its telos, to set straight. This would be incongruous with a translation of aionion as 'eternal' in Mt 25:46.

 

[St. SteVen]

I should probably say something about the political and false anathema of Origen.
It was after his death and did not condemn Universalism.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In 553, during the early days of the Second Council of Constantinople (the Fifth Ecumenical Council), when Pope Vigilius was still refusing to take part in it despite Justinian holding him hostage, the bishops at the council ratified an open letter which condemned Origen as the leader of the Isochristoi.[256] The letter was not part of the official acts of the council, and it more or less repeated the edict issued by the Synod of Constantinople in 543.[256] It cites objectionable writings attributed to Origen, but all the writings referred to in it were actually written by Evagrius Ponticus.[256] After the council officially opened, but while Pope Vigillius was still refusing to take part, Justinian presented the bishops with the problem of a text known as The Three Chapters, which attacked the Antiochene Christology.[256]

The bishops drew up a list of anathemata against the heretical teachings contained within The Three Chapters and those associated with them.[256] In the official text of the eleventh anathema, Origen is condemned as a Christological heretic,[256][109] but Origen's name does not appear at all in the Homonoia, the first draft of the anathemata issued by the imperial chancery,[256] nor does it appear in the version of the conciliar proceedings that was eventually signed by Pope Vigillius, a long time afterwards.[256] Norman P. Tanner's edition of the Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils (Georgetown University Press, 1990) says: "Our edition does not include the text of the anathemas against Origen since recent studies have shown that these anathemas cannot be attributed to this council." These discrepancies may indicate that Origen's name was retrospectively inserted into the text after the council.[256] Some authorities believe these anathemata belong to an earlier local synod.[259] Even if Origen's name did appear in the original text of the anathema, the teachings attributed to Origen that are condemned in the anathema were actually the ideas of later Origenists, which had very little grounding in anything Origen had actually written.[256][56][253] In fact, Popes Vigilius, Pelagius I, Pelagius II, and Gregory the Great were only aware that the Fifth Council specifically dealt with The Three Chapters and make no mention of Origenism or universalism, nor spoke as if they knew of its condemnation—even though Gregory the Great was opposed to universalism.[56]

 

[Illuminator]

Whether an idea is old or new is not an arbiter of truth. But I maintain that the so-called "fathers" are unreliable sources of truth.

It was the Church Fathers that gradually put the Holy Books into a Bible in the early 4th century. Your position is self defeating.

It doesn't matter what this or that Church Father said, or how one wishes to interpret it, what matters is the Church has never formally taught Universalism.

Universalism was formalized in the 17th century as an offshoot of reformism, another Johnny-come-lately innovation.

 

[face2face]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,
Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Redemption, UR...

There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.

Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Quotes from the early church fathers in the next post.


@Chadrho @Patrick1966

Many potions have been cooked up by the so-called wise men of this world. Many of those above came to their senses and left UR well behind.

Origen used Acts 3:21 to try and justify this false doctrine and thankfully he could see the error in doing so...the restoration of all things pertains to the hope of Israel and as Jesus taught the Samaritan woman if you dont have this hope, you dont have the Christ or salvation.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Origen also speculated about the end of created things. He wrote of the apokatastasis, which is the restoration of all rational beings back to union with God, including Satan. Larry Dixon, Emmaus Journal 18.2 (2009): 198.

Not that I believe in a literal demonic satan, but even here he would presume to know how God would deal with the evil in the world and thought he can sit in judgement of God's actions and judgements. It's a doctrine which comes from the height of arrogance (and ignorance). First you need to ignore a plethora of Bible text concerning the fate of the wicked, then you need to ignore 50% of God's balanced character (Severity). It's not a leap of faith, it's falling to ones spiritual death!

He described this as follows: “Just as when the Son is said to be subjected to the Father the perfect restoration of the entire creation is announced, so when his enemies are said to be subjected to the Son of God, we are to understand this to involve the salvation of those subjected and the restoration of those that have been lost.” Larry Dixon, Emmaus Journal 18.2 (2009): 198.

Garbage...the subjection has to do with bringing his living enemies to their knees and chastening those even to death, who rebel. The last enemy is sin and death and no-one can convince a Christian that sin can be restored - sin and death must be utterly destroyed. The theological model just falls over and over until those who hold its become a byword as St SteVen has become in this forum.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Apokatastasis in the early church​

Ahhhh, I know, they had too many pockets in their tastasis? ...or was it an evening meal after a game of poker?

 

[CadyandZoe]

It was the Church Fathers that gradually put the Holy Books into a Bible in the early 4th century. Your position is self defeating.

It doesn't matter what this or that Church Father said, or how one wishes to interpret it, what matters is the Church has never formally taught Universalism.

Universalism was formalized in the 17th century as an offshoot of reformism, another Johnny-come-lately innovation.

Collecting the writings of the apostles is one thing; writing false doctrine is another.

 

[Behold]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things),

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Its pretty obvious that all things are not restored.

Notice that you are in a body that is going to die?
So, is that "the restoration of all things"

Notice that unbelievers are still sinning, the world is still EVIL..... and unbelievers are still going to hell, every day.....

"restoration of all things"?

Not quite.

 

[St. SteVen]

Universalism was formalized in the 17th century as an offshoot of reformism, another Johnny-come-lately innovation.

That's not true.

Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?

Christian Universalism/Apokatastasis has roots in the early church in the east. It was a leading theology in the east (Greek-speaking church) and was supported by many of the Patristic Church Fathers, as I understand it. "The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[ElieG12]

It does not matter if after the second century some Christian apologist defended some belief that the Christian biblical Scriptures do not seem to clearly support... The Bible itself says that in times when the apostles were still alive there were individuals who also speculated on the things that Paul said in his letters, and they twisted those inspired things to introduce false teachings. So it is necessary to sift any doctrine through the Bible to determine if it is true or just a deception or confusion.

2 Pet. 3:15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

The salvation of all people is obviously an unbiblical doctrine.

Matt. 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. (...)’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

 

[St. SteVen]

The salvation of all people is obviously an unbiblical doctrine.

What do you make of these?

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[ElieG12]

ALL in a specific and well-determined context.

 

[St. SteVen]

ALL in a specific and well-determined context.

Like the all people in these scriptures? Or do you think "all' means "some"?

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[ElieG12]

Consider ALL as a name ... it never goes without last name. The last name is in the context, like here:

1 Cor. 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

A mature Christian knows what is EVIDENT and does not need to be repeated.

 

[St. SteVen]

Consider ALL as a name ... it never goes without last name.

Like all people.
Maybe "all" needs a middle name to work with your doctrine?
All some people ???