Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I actually keep quoting a part of it every post I have made today
John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If you look at the story of Moses and the serpent. The poeple had to look up to the serpent on the pole. if they did they lived, if not they died.
Just like that Jesus will hang on the cross.
St. SteVen said:
Jesus said no such thing that I recall. Chapter and verse, please.
Thanks. That confirms what I wrote. Jesus said no such thing.
But, yes, "unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
This is what the age of restoration is for.
A time for judgment, correction, restoration and redemption before we enter the kingdom of God.
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
/
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You did not read what I said. Jesus mentioned Moses lifting the serpent, did you go read that story?
Numbers 21:8
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.”
Jesus said that just as moses lifted the serpent, so to must the son of man be lifted up. that whoever believes.
What seperates those who believe from those who do not believe.
Those who believe, just like they did in Numbers. look.. those who do not do not
what happens to those who do not look, they suffer their fate, they are not saved..
Thats why jesus said, whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned alread
whatever
He will restore the earth
He is not going to restore people who reject him
once again, He who believes is not condemned, He who does nto believe is condemned already, You think God is going to save people who give him the finger until the day they die, you got another thing coming, they will die the second death, which is eternal
Jesus taught us that loving our enemies is godly behavior.
Would God do any less than what he requires of us?
/
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He did love them, He died for them
But he will not force them to receive his gift.
We are saved by Grace, but only through faith
Again, he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already
why will you not acknowledge Jesus words?
And now he hates them?
What changed?
They are still enemies to be loved, right?
LOL
So, it's a free gift, but if you refuse it you will be incinerated?
What kind of free gift is that? Sounds more like extortion.
He made them an offer they can't refuse.
Sure. I agree.
Why are you building your argument on one verse with no consideration for anything else?
Was this scripture below written about believers? (nope)
Is it about being saved by grace through faith? (nope)
Do you believe the Apostle Paul?
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
/
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Nope. He still loves them.
Nothing
yes. But you do not force those you love to do somethign they do not want to. Thats what Satan wants you to believe, God makes us all puppets.
It is a free gift. If you refuse. You will remain condemned.
Oh,
So do you force your kids to take gifts they do not want?
Yet they still refused.. Why?
John 3: This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
So its Gods fault they loved darkness more than Light?
How can you agree when you say I will be saved even if I have no faith?
One verse? I can show you many verses.. But if one verse exposes you.. and you can not explain it. Why do to other verses?
What does this have to do with God allowing people who reject him in unbelief to heaven?
1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Not all are in Christ Jesus.
So... you don't have children, do you? - LOL
Nope. But then I don't incinerate them for not taking the gift either.
That would be cruel and sadistic. Not to mention murderous.
Is this what you are accusing God of?
/
Here's a great explanation from a good friend of mine.
1 Corinthians 15:22 explained
This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better,
if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.
If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.
The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent.
So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.
Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.
But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).
Therefore, all means all in both instances.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
/
@GTW27
It doesn't say " those in Christ".
It does say "so in Christ all".
And "as in Adam all".
Because "as in" and "so in" means in the same way.
In the same way all die in Adam, all will be made alive in Christ. All = all
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
/
It doesn't say " those in Christ".
It does say "so in Christ all".
And "as in Adam all".
Because "as in" and "so in" means in the same way.
In the same way all die in Adam, all will be made alive in Christ. All = all
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
/
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
you keep saying incinerate
God is not incinerating no one. He is allowing people to chose where they want to spend eternity
Time to lighten things up.
--- Parody ---
Conversation between Christian protester and doughnut shop patron. (customer)
Patron: What are doing picketing a donut shop?
Protester: I'm protesting the sin of gluttony.
Patron: Why on earth would you do that?
Protester: Gluttony is a sin, this has to stop.
Patron: Not everyone who buys a donut is a glutton.
Protester: We can't say that for sure.
Patron: Don't you have gluttony at your church?
Protester: No, we kicked them all out, unless they would repent.
Patron: Wow, for eating donuts?
Protester: No, gluttony takes many forms.
Patron: Right, like a church pot-luck dinner?
Protester: Exactly, they are banned at our church.
Patron: Did you know that some people are born with
weight-gain issues they will never get ahead of?
Protester: That's no excuse. Sin is sin.
Patron: You look exhausted, can I buy you a donut.
Protester: Sure, just don't tell the church.
Patron: Your secret's safe with me.
/
Originally posted to the WWJD with LGBTQ? topic.
--- Parody ---
Conversation between Christian protester and doughnut shop patron. (customer)
Patron: What are doing picketing a donut shop?
Protester: I'm protesting the sin of gluttony.
Patron: Why on earth would you do that?
Protester: Gluttony is a sin, this has to stop.
Patron: Not everyone who buys a donut is a glutton.
Protester: We can't say that for sure.
Patron: Don't you have gluttony at your church?
Protester: No, we kicked them all out, unless they would repent.
Patron: Wow, for eating donuts?
Protester: No, gluttony takes many forms.
Patron: Right, like a church pot-luck dinner?
Protester: Exactly, they are banned at our church.
Patron: Did you know that some people are born with
weight-gain issues they will never get ahead of?
Protester: That's no excuse. Sin is sin.
Patron: You look exhausted, can I buy you a donut.
Protester: Sure, just don't tell the church.
Patron: Your secret's safe with me.
/
Originally posted to the WWJD with LGBTQ? topic.
That is wrong on so many levels. - LOL
Another parody... (but serious)
Person #1: ... and that's the gospel. Will you receive Jesus?
Person #2: Sure, but I have a question.
Person #1: No problem, what is it?
Person #2: I lost a baby. Will she be in heaven with me?
Person #1: Well... ahem (clears throat) Um... (cringe)
Person #2: Well what! ???
/
That's not a choice. That is extortion.
Imagined conversation between Jesus and a distraught mother in heaven. (parody)
Mother: Lord, I was remembering my child.
Jesus: Yes, I can see her now in torment.
Mother: When will it end?
Jesus: Hell is forever.
Mother: Is there no hope for my child?
Jesus: Sorry, no hope for those in hell.
Mother: Surely my child has been punished enough by now.
Jesus: No, unbelief is an eternal crime.
Mother: I would gladly trade places with my child.
Jesus: I couldn't do that to you.
Mother: Why can you do it to my child?
Jesus: They are my enemy.
Mother: Didn't you teach us to love our enemies?
Jesus: Hmm... you got me there.
/
Reminds me of what military men say to accuse war atrocities.
Enlisted man: I didn't kill all those people, I was just following orders.
General: I didn't kill all those people, I was just giving orders.
Obviously, someone killed all those people. They didn't kill themselves.
Oh wait... that's your justification about hell. They incinerated themselves. - LOL
You'll have to do better than that.
/
