Apostasy

[Patrick1966]

Judaism was the threat of apostacy in Paul’s day as it has been throughout all generations. If Judaism was false to those who held the faith of Abraham in Christ day - what is the equivalent in Christianity today?

I'm sorry. I still don't follow.

 

[Patrick1966]

All good between us?
J.

The Masters Seminary Chapel

Mike contrasts the teachings and traditions of Rome with Christ and His Word at The Masters Seminary Chapel in Sun Valley, CA

www.proclaimingthegospel.org

Of course my brother!

 

[face2face]

I'm sorry. I still don't follow.

Lets breat it down:

This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. Gal 2:4

Which religous group of people was Paul speaking about?

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Which religous group of people was Paul speaking about?

Jews?

 

[Johann]

You are one of those lost souls Johann and you don't know it.
F2F

Deu_1:16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Psa_67:4 O let the nations be glad and sing for for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Psa_96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

Pro_31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Discerning Truth in a World..

Jim Schneider | Crosstalk America

sermonaudio.com

J.

 

[face2face]

Jews?

Yes, more particularly the Pharisees and Sadducees who tried to infiltrate the true Christian body to convert them back to the Law of Moses.

So whatever they stood for in all the pomp and ceremony Paul states Christianity will be the same in the last days.

Who then represents the elite Jews of Pauls day, today?

The right answer will give you the mother of harlots.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Patrick1966 In Gal 2:4 Paul laments the deceitful workers who "secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage". Paul did not give in for a moment but strongly resisted the intrusion of these "Judaizers", members of the "circumcision party" (See Gal 2:12 cp Acts 11:2; 15:1,5), who were preaching a different gospel (Gal 1:6-9; cp 2 Co 11:4,5).

Now consider for a moment the chances of that original gospel being preserved in Christianity throughout 2000 years, highly unlikely to say the least.

Paul was contending for the loyalty of the Galatians and against the circumcision party "that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you" (Read Gal 2:5,14).

Is it a coincidence He was doing the same with the Thessalonians also? declaring that "God chose you from the beginning to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel...." (2Th 2:13,14).

Do you think Johann has truth? After 2000 years of false teachings manipulating and twisting the Word of God forcing error into the Word in every commentary?

It was only a matter of time before Church and State would come together to give birth to Catholicism. Judaism had its way in the end...only for a time though.

F2F

 

[Lizbeth]

There is a difference between betrayal and denial, which Peter experienced. Judas, like all the disciples anticipated the Kingdom of Israel to be reinstated, which is why he aligned himself with finance. He thought it was a great opportunity for the gathering of wealth to himself, however when it was clear this wasn't to take place, the thought of betrayal took root in his heart. We have his spirit alive in Hillsong here in Australia and prosperity gospel preachers and the like. The merchandising of Christ is well and truly entrenched in the world.

Just want to mention some things that came to mind with your comments if I may.

Agree that probably Judas did have personal ambition/wealth in mind with regard to the coming kingdom, which he was probably seeing/understanding in a fleshly way. It rings true. Also, I have heard it suggested that after seeing the miracles that Jesus performed, Judas' betrayal of Jesus was a way to try and force His hand...Judas believed Jesus would be forced to miraculously spare Himself and declare Himself and bring in His kingdom forcibly (in the earthly fleshly way that Judas was seeing it). Don't know for sure but this makes sense to me, and it fits a pattern.......seeing the kingdom of God in a fleshly earthly way seems to be characteristic of many of these false movements like Hillsong that you are mentioning and Kingdom Now, NAR, etc. The merchandising of Christ, sadly so true.

This falling away has become mainstream Christianity something all the Apostles warned would happen.

Amen, sadly. But foreseen by the Lord and declared by the apostles as you say. By such things we are being tested, I believe.

History has shown us both the persecutor and the persecuted. The calling to come out from among them and be separate is a calling to those who are in the Mother Harlot and her many daughters.

Amen!

At the time of Paul it was Judaistic in origin; also the strong influence of Gnosticism. Later it became the Early Church Fathers who were infected with Platonic teaching...today there is not a Christian alive who doesn't hold to Platonic doctrine.

And no wonder if it was a Judaism that had been (and still is) heavily influenced by "Babylon" since the captivity.

Don't blame a make believe being - place the responsibility with man and his deception - lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life all contribute to the apostasy.

Allures through the flesh, that's for sure. I don't think we should discount either man's responsibility or the devil's role. And again, all such things test us, I believe. Like the Amazing Grace song..."through many dangers, toils and snares...." Can we see it as being all to God's glory...?... like doubling down on throwing water on the altar and still the fire of God burned up the sacrifice!

True, the pre council Apostolic Creeds hold truth - everything post AD325 is apostate in origin!

Paul said that after he departed wolves would come in not sparing the flock, so sounds like there was a gradual sliding away from the pure truth that began very early on.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have greater insight than the one who started this OP - well done!

It was pointed out to me by someone actually. I thought the OP had some good insights too and is at very least on the right track. But maybe there is more that can be said as well to pinpoint things more. Nobody has all the answers I think, so it's good to share and discuss what we each have. The body of Christ edifying itself in love.

 

[Lizbeth]

The Man of Sin is represented by him who sits as Christs victor upon a fleshly throne. This system is typified by its obscene wealth and prosperity.

Amen. In a nutshell this seems to be from man taking the place of Christ and the people who love to have it so...essentially worship of man and personalities etc, rather than the worship of our invisible Head, Christ Jesus. (manifestation of flesh vs. spirit in other words is how I think of it).

Correct...from the Vatican to the Properity Preachers all over the World they all represent the apostate system in the earth.

Here is the heart of the issue. Paul said "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word or mouth or by letter" (2Th 2:15), and Paul seems to have begun specially marking his letters so as to establish their authenticity (2Th 3:17).

Amen.

 

[face2face]

If you were told by the Lord Jesus Christ that Catholicism was defiled, to its core, along with all its doctrines; where do you stand in relation to her teachings? Do you hold to the 3n1; devils and demons; maryology; immortal soulism; imaginary places of torture; sprinkling; purgatory; transubstantiation - there is not a single doctrine in her which is truth - not one! If she has many daughters in the earth - who are they and what beliefs do they share having drunk her wine.

F2F

 

[Godslittleservant]

Apostasy
One of the greatest mysteries in life is how anyone could come to a knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and then depart from Him. Judas is the classic example of an apostate - one who abandons the faith he once held. Judas walked and lived with the Son of God for over three years, a royal privilege granted to only 11 other men. Yet after witnessing the Messiah's sinless life, seeing His miracles, experiencing His divine power and hearing His profound wisdom, Judas betrayed Him. It was during the celebration of the Passover meal that Judas deliberately defected from the faith of the apostles and sealed his eternal destiny in the lake of fire (Mat. 26:24-25).

Two Streams of Christianity

Many others have departed from the faith since that fateful night. The apostle John wrote about apostates who "went out from us" because "they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us" (1 John 2:18). Most apostates never reject the Christian faith completely, they fall away to a counterfeit form of Christianity. It is for this reason we have seen two streams of Christianity operating side-by-side for 2000 years.

The Apostolic Church

One stream is the apostolic church, founded by the Lord Jesus who is the Master Builder. It includes only the few who have entered through the narrow gate (Mat. 7:13). They have been sanctified by the truth and born of the Spirit. This Spirit of Promise seals and indwells each member, thus guaranteeing their eternal inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14). This church will be persecuted, hated and despised, but will continue holding to apostolic faith until Jesus returns to take it to heaven as His bride. The gates of hell shall not prevail against this church (Mat. 16:18).

The Apostate Church

The other stream is an apostate church made up of those who profess Christ but are spiritually dead. They believe a distorted Gospel, follow another spirit and reject the faith of the apostles (1 Tim. 4:1). This church is being built by men who ignore the Master Builder's blueprint and instead follow their own methods and movements. Maligning the way of truth, they seduce many with their sensuality (2 Pet. 2:2). Apostates will increase in number and grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, until the Day of our Lord (2 Tim. 3:3). These "professing" Christians will not endure sound doctrine. Instead they will turn away from the truth and turn to teachers who tickle their ears with messages of self esteem (2 Tim. 4:3-4). Paul called these teachers "grievous wolves" who enter the church speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them (Acts 20:29-30). It is important to note that all apostates are unbelievers but not all un- believers are apostates.

The Primary Cause of Apostasy

The major cause of apostasy can be traced to various spiritual influences that include demonic deceptions and divine judgments. The "father of lies" has been seducing the visible church into an ecumenical spirituality in an attempt to unite the religions of the world. Driven by his desire to be worshipped as god, he will continue to attack God's Word with an unrestrained determination. Post- modern philosophy is currently his most effective tool. Church leaders who are caught up in this movement are saying we cannot know absolute truth. And since we cannot know absolute truth, we cannot be dogmatic about doctrine or moral standards. They say dogmatic preaching must give way to dialogue between people of all faiths in order to seek unity for common goals.

Divine judgment is also a cause for apostasy. Those who refuse to love and believe the truth for salvation will be sent a deluding influence so they might believe what is false and be judged (2 Thes. 2:9-12 ). A divine judgment in the form of moral apostasy is also given to those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. By refusing to acknowledge God any longer, He gives them over to depraved minds and degrading passions for people of the same sex (Rom. 1:18-32).

The Step-by-Step Drift into Apostasy

Step One: God's word is rejected as the supreme authority for faith and practice. This creates uncertainty over whether to follow Jesus and His Word or the traditions and movements of men. Double mindedness causes confusion and divided loyalties. The power of the Gospel is diluted by compromise. Biblical evangelism is replaced by "easy believism" or sacramental salvation. Scripture is cited only for selfish ambition, result- ing in little or no discernment. People are given what they want instead of what they need. Their spurious faith is exposed when trials and temptations arise. Biblical warnings about false teachers are ignored.

Step Two: Scripture is twisted and distorted for power, control and riches. Truth is deter- mined by subjective personal experiences rather than the objective Word of God. Biblical ignorance provides fertile ground for false teachers. "Infallible" men claim to be successors of the apostles. Doctrinal error and sin are tolerated. Worldliness and ungodly influences are present. Hearts are unresponsive to the Holy Spirit. God is honored with lips but hearts are far from Him. Love for God grows cold. Those who contend for the faith are asked to leave. Satan sows his tares in the church with little or no resistance.

Step Three: Bible teaching is replaced by stories and myths. Doctrinal error is em- braced. Programs and entertainment have forced Jesus out of the church. A form of godliness exists but it is void of power. Deception abounds because there is a failure to love the truth. A stubborn refusal to accept correction is present. Hearts have be- come hardened. The devil is no longer resisted. Blatantly immoral lifestyles are present and accepted.

Step Four: Jesus Christ and His Gospel are totally rejected. Those who embrace truth are an anathema and asked to leave. Grace is turned into a license to sin. The holy things of God are mocked. Deception is full-blown. Lying signs and wonders are promoted as messages from God. Doctrines of demons are followed. Idolatry and prayers to the dead are encouraged. The church's lamp stand has been removed and a certain terrifying judgement is now unavoidable.

Past and Future Apostasy

Biblical history confirms there have always been apostate churches like the one at Laodicea (Rev. 3:14-22) as well as individual apostates (Heb.10:26-31). However, "the apostasy" will reach its prophetic peak just prior to the Day of our Lord (2 Thes. 2:3). Paul's use of the definite article suggests that the downward spiral into apostasy will be culminated by one identifiable act. It will occur when the "man of lawlessness is revealed." This "son of destruction, who op- poses and exalts himself above every so- called god or object of worship...takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God (2 Thes. 3:3-4). This apostasy will be a blasphemous act of unprecedented magnitude by a demonically influenced world leader. This "second Judas" will desecrate the temple by declaring himself to be God thus committing the abomination of desolation. The "first Judas" desecrated the temple with the money he received by betraying the Son of God (Mat. 27:5).

The Lord Jesus warned us the end times would be marked by great deception, such that the world has never known (Mat. 24). The spiritual deception which covers the earth will be so prevalent that Jesus asked the question: "When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8). This fatal deception will cause more churches, denominations, seminaries and individuals to drift into apostasy unless biblical warnings are heeded. Each professing Christian's faith will be constantly tested as more seducing spirits invade the church.

What Are Believers To Do?

1) Pray that we will be strong in the Lord as we put on the full armor of God. Recognize we are in an intense battle for truth against the schemes of the devil and the wicked forces of darkness (Eph. 6:10-12).




Two Streams of Christianity

Born Again Christians

♦ Contend for the God-given faith of the apostles (Jude 3)

♦ Exalt Jesus Christ as the only Master, Lord and Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22)

♦ Possessors of Christ, made alive by the Spirit (Rom. 8:10-11)

♦ Are devoted to apostolic teaching and sound doctrine (Acts 2:42)

♦ Proclaim salvation by grace alone through what God has done in Christ (Rom. 3:24-26; 11:6)

♦ Receive grace and turn from ungodliness and worldly desires (Titus 2:11-12)

♦ Children of God called out of the world and enrolled in heaven (2Tim.3:12; Heb.12:23)

♦ Know God and do good works prepared by Him (Eph. 2:9)

Apostates

♦ Have deliberately departed from the apostles' faith (1 John 2:19)

♦ Deny Jesus Christ as the only Master, Lord and Head of the Church (Jude 4)

♦ Professors of Christ, twice dead (Mat. 7:22; Jude 12)

♦ Introduce destructive heresies and do not endure sound doctrine (2 Tim. 4:3; 2 Pet. 2:1)

♦ Deceive people with a “salvation" by grace plus what man must do for God (Gal. 1:6-9)

♦ Turn the grace of our God into licentiousness (Jude 4)

♦ Godless people blinded by the prince of the world and condemned (2 Cor.4:4; Jude4)

♦ Profess to know God, but deny Him by their deeds (Titus1:16)

I agree with 90% of what you posted there is very little I would change but there is a part I would have to discuss a littler more with you but over all I give you a B+

 

[Johann]

I agree with 90% of what you posted there is very little I would change but there is a part I would have to discuss a littler more with you but over all I give you a B+

Although I appreciate your "B plus" all glory goes to Christ Jesus to Who I shall give account for every idle, useless inoperative word-in word, thought and deed brother.
Intellectualism and artful sophistry is the norm.

One question-are you for-or against water baptism?
Thanks
J.

 

[ChristisGod]

You said that beautifully. Thank you!

Actually it’s a cut n paste from here and not his work. It’s plagiarism.

Proclaiming the Gospel - Articles

 

[Behold]

Apostasy
One of the greatest mysteries in life is how anyone could come to a knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and then depart from Him.

The born again never depart from God and Christ, as being born again = secures you in ETERNAL spiritual union with God and Christ, for eternity.

But a person's MIND can do a lot of things, ... go a lot of places, and become deceived, while they are born again..
So, their mind can depart from their Christianity.
Why does this happen?

Because the world is a very strong temptation and its very common for a born again believer to want what the world offers.
DEMAS is such a believer.

Also, it can be the case that a born again believer, becomes bitter and resentful because something bad happened to them, and they blame God.
Or, something that they want so much to have, to happen........does not manifest.......and they blame God, and become hardened in their heart against him.........and that is all emotions and mind.
So, they will depart from their commitment, and their discipleship, into dead faith.
And once again, this is all in the HEAD, and has no effect on the New Birth or becoming and remaining 'in Christ" and "one with God'.

Reader...
Heretics who dont understand the Cross, the NT, or anything regarding GOD's Salvation, will read "abide in me".... and they get confused and misunderstand this verse to mean to THEM.....>"if you dont, then you lost your Salvation".
So, you have to be careful, as a Heretic will read a SYMBOLIC Verse, that talks about "burned branches" and try to use this against Christianity, because they dont understand anything about the Cross of Christ or Eternal Life, or becoming "one with God", or being "made Righteous".

 

[ChristisGod]

Although I appreciate your "B plus" all glory goes to Christ Jesus to Who I shall give account for every idle, useless inoperative word-in word, thought and deed brother.
Intellectualism and artful sophistry is the norm.

One question-are you for-or against water baptism?
Thanks
J.

All the credit should go to the author of the article , not you. This is where you took it from and failed to credit them. It’s plagiarism.

Proclaiming the Gospel - Articles

 

[Godslittleservant]

Although I appreciate your "B plus" all glory goes to Christ Jesus to Who I shall give account for every idle, useless inoperative word-in word, thought and deed brother.
Intellectualism and artful sophistry is the norm.

One question-are you for-or against water baptism?
Thanks
J.

Yes I cannot see how one cannot believe in What God does in the act of water baptism it is the baptism in spirit that John said Jesus was to baptize with once the kingdom came in which it has now. Too many scripture teaching this fact to not believe.

 

[Behold]

Yes I cannot see how one cannot believe in What God does in the act of water baptism

Its because the water cults teach that this HAS to be the WAY a person is born again, or saved.

And that teacher/teaching comes from the Catholic Bible that changed John 3 into..."born again BY Water"..

And no one is born again BY water. And WATER does not wash away sin.
A person is born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and that is not "BY WATER", that is "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".

Millions are saved, and are never water baptized.
Millions are water baptized and are in HELL right now.

So, if you teach that Water Baptism is REQUIRED as this is HOW God gives the new Birth, then that is a """ doctrine of devils."""

See, the devil always takes a truth and twists it, morphs it, into a DIfferent understanding .... a HERESY>... and then his owned teach THAT as false truth.

 

[Johann]

Yes I cannot see how one cannot believe in What God does in the act of water baptism it is the baptism in spirit that John said Jesus was to baptize with once the kingdom came in which it has now. Too many scripture teaching this fact to not believe.

If you have read my post carefully-it concurs with your statement.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Its because the water cults teach that this HAS to be the WAY a person is born again, or saved.

And that teacher/teaching comes from the Catholic Bible that changed John 3 into..."born again BY Water"..

And no one is born again BY water. And WATER does not wash away sin.
A person is born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and that is not "BY WATER", that is "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".

Millions are saved, and are never water baptized.
Millions are water baptized and are in HELL right now.

So, if you teach that Water Baptism is REQUIRED as this is HOW God gives the new Birth, then that is a """ doctrine of devils."""

See, the devil always takes a truth and twists it, morphs it, into a DIfferent understanding .... a HERESY>... and then his owned teach THAT as false truth.

So I am of a cult that is refreshing for a brother speaking falsehoods on Gods word to say to another that sees thing differently but thank you for the warm welcome.

Is the King James a Catholic bible ? What about the New American Standard? It says the same thing. Just for my salvation please tell me which bible do YOU say I should be reading?

You say " And no one is born again BY water. And WATER does not wash away sin.
A person is born again by the HOLY SPIRIT, and that is not "BY WATER", that is "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord"."

That brother you will need to prove because the bible says just the opposite of that .
John 3 says one has to be born of the water and of the spirit.
Acts 2:38 says one has to repent and be baptized in the name of Christ for forgiveness of Sin and to receive the spirit.

That is backed as a true statement by so many passages so we can not say it does not mean what it says.

Romans 6 is the best to defend it because Paul spells out for us what the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ does it is where GOD does his transforming work on us not man but GOD when we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ the baptism that John told us Jesus would baptize with God changes us from being dead in Sin to alive in Christ (the new birth / born again) we are freed from the bondage of sin and made new in Christ we put on Christ read the chapter that is what it say and Paul made it clear that by obeying this teaching on the baptism in the name of Christ we became free from the servant of sin to becoming the servants of righteous Romans 6:17,18

So we know that this is talking about the baptism in the name of Christ because it is one to be obeyed it is not a dry baptism where the spirit came upon us but the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that John said Jesus would baptize it is in water and in Spirit Just as Jesus told Nicodemus that to see the kingdom of God (the church) he must be born with water and the spirit.

In Acts 19 if that is not enough to convince you God gives more proof that Acts 2:38 is the spiritual baptism that Jesus was to baptize with when Paul came upon some that had been baptized by Johns baptism. See Acts 19:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples.
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul asked Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? They answer We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Then what does Paul ask Unto what then were ye baptized? See Paul knows that if they believed they would have been baptized so when they say one has believed baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is included they are believers because they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38 sorry got ahead of my self the answered Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. so see it does matter what baptism one is baptized with Johns baptism is no longer of use it only pointed to the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with and it is the spiritual baptism in Christ name

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 2:38 Romans 6:3 Acts 19:1-5 Acts 10:47,48 Acts 8:36-38

If you have read my post carefully-it concurs with your statement.
Shalom
Johann.

May God bless you richly in his word brother Johann