Apostolic councils?

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DNB

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Thank you for that completely irrelevant Wikipedia post.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with mandating the "selling of Indulgences".

Back to the drawing board, junior . . .
You're deceitful, every single time that you are refuted you change the subject. The Catholics tortured, burnt to death, and drowned many people, this is your pedigree - Christ never endorsed those actions, and he rebuked those that wanted to (Luke 9:54). These are the demons that you call apostolic. Your colours are beginning to show.
 

DNB

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Self evident .
Yeah , spiritual evidence is a better word . cause as i said , i had rather watch concrete cure
while having lotion of sulfiric acid rubbed on my skin , than to heed one word o ROME or any who follows them .
What says YE .
Well, I do forget the duration that it actually takes concrete to cure, which of course may be affected by both atmospheric pressure and density of concrete. But, in short, yes, how excruciating it will be, both in this world and the consequences of it in the afterlife, to contemplate on the tenets of one of the most anti-Christian institutions that the world has ever known. Their adherents are either equally wicked, or indoctrinated, neither one being a favourable position to be in.
 
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BreadOfLife

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You're deceitful, every single time that you are refuted you change the subject. The Catholics tortured, burnt to death, and drowned many people, this is your pedigree - Christ never endorsed those actions, and he rebuked those that wanted to (Luke 9:54). These are the demons that you call apostolic. Your colours are beginning to show.
Sooooo, is it YOUR pedigree that you chase hookers, smoke meth with male prostitutes and have sex with them and molest children just because SOME within your Protestant ranks are guilty of this?
What a crock.

And you haven't "refuted" me ONCE. I've challenged you a few time to produce evidence for your bogus claims - and EVERY time you have failed.
Nice job . . .
 

Marymog

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BOD said it was because bible theft was epidemic in those days. why in the world would anyone steal a bible? i mean you would have to be living under some kind of oppressive theocracy that condemned common folks from having bibles, who would do anything like that?
BOD?

Good question....Why would they steal bibles? According to our history books it was for their $$$value.

Chaining bibles to pulpits and “common folks from having bibles” are two different issues. Your conflating the two ;)
 

DNB

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Sooooo, is it YOUR pedigree that you chase hookers, smoke meth with male prostitutes and have sex with them and molest children just because SOME within your Protestant ranks are guilty of this?
What a crock.

And you haven't "refuted" me ONCE. I've challenged you a few time to produce evidence for your bogus claims - and EVERY time you have failed.
Nice job . . .
You're very deceitful. You're trying to compare people who are acting outside of a Church's mandate, against those who actually defined the mandate.
BOL, you're looney tunes!
 

Marymog

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i like Jesus teaching on false teachers, He said we could spot these false teachers by their fruit, would burning people alive and torturing people be good fruit or bad fruit?
The Catholic and Protestant Inquisitions went to far when they (men drunk with power) decided to kill and torture people.

So, according to your theory, no good fruit can come from The Church or those Protestant Churches since there were some men who sinned in those Churches? I guess no church, or man, can bare good fruit since all men are sinners and all churches have sinners attending them and in their leadership ;)

Mary
 

Marymog

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No Christian has ever relied on the church for truthful doctrine. Jesus said He was the way, the truth, and the life. The church ought to be reliable as a source of truth... And true Christian churches can be... But even Paul did not isn't himself as a source of truth. He said go back to the word and study to check if I am correct. Even Jesus didn't present Himself as sole authority, when speaking of Himself He didn't say, believe everything I say, He gave the disciples a Bible study.
Ummmm.......Scripture says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth and if a person refuses to listen to The Church they are excommunicated from The Church soooooo why wouldn’t a Christian rely on The Church for the truth??? Your theory is opposite of what Scripture teaches.

What criteria do you use to determine what “a true Christian church” is? Have any churches met your criteria?

When you talk about Paul are you talking about the passages concerning the Bereans?

Soooo when Jesus said the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.....That really meant that we shouldn’t believe everything he said??? Are you sure about that Backlit? What your saying seems to be opposite of what Jesus said....
 

Marymog

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what i remember from scripture is Jesus going to church to read scripture, to honor the Father, but when it came time to teaching, and learning, they were always gathered in the towns, around the corner, by the lakeside, etc. the focus was always a group of believers being together, not turning to the church for the answers.
(Not turning to the church for the answers)

Can you explain something to me: Who was “the church’ when Jesus was alive???????????????
 

Marymog

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I had rather watch concrete cure than listen to a word Rome or anyone influenced by her in any way has to say .
You all be blessed now .
Sooooo who have been the influences in your life and learning about Christianity?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Oh, for, crying out loud - it is because these flippin' ignominious men were the flippin' leaders, who determined tradition & doctrine, namely the flippin' papal bulls and councils, council of trent, vatican I & II. In other words, half of Catholic flippin' dogma was promulgated by these flippin' charlatans. Which part of corruption do you not understand - a little leaven, leaveneth the whole flippin' lump!
Who created your dogma?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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You're deceitful, every single time that you are refuted you change the subject. The Catholics tortured, burnt to death, and drowned many people, this is your pedigree - Christ never endorsed those actions, and he rebuked those that wanted to (Luke 9:54). These are the demons that you call apostolic. Your colours are beginning to show.
Time for a History lesson kiddo....There were sinful men in the Protestant Churches that ALSO tortured, burnt to death and drowned people. That is in YOUR pedigree.......Sooooooooooooooooo What’s your point?

Christian men sinned 500 years ago....1,0000 years ago....etc.....that means no one from their “pedigree” that is alive today can be trusted or be a good Christian?? They can NEVER know the truth?????

Your theory makes no sense.

What does make sense is that you are rabidly anti-Catholic and that is where your biased, uneducated hate speech comes from. :(

Keeping it real....can we get back to the subject???


There are some teachings from Church councils that Protestants agree with. How does that make you feel?

Curious Mary
 

DNB

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Time for a History lesson kiddo....There were sinful men in the Protestant Churches that ALSO tortured, burnt to death and drowned people. That is in YOUR pedigree.......Sooooooooooooooooo What’s your point?

Christian men sinned 500 years ago....1,0000 years ago....etc.....that means no one from their “pedigree” that is alive today can be trusted or be a good Christian?? They can NEVER know the truth?????

Your theory makes no sense.

What does make sense is that you are rabidly anti-Catholic and that is where your biased, uneducated hate speech comes from. :(

Keeping it real....can we get back to the subject???


There are some teachings from Church councils that Protestants agree with. How does that make you feel?

Curious Mary
What makes you think that I even have a point, Marymog? All this time that we've been discussing this matter, you keep asking me what's my point, but has it ever dawned on you that maybe there is no point to be made? That is, what is the point in trying to make a point, get it? Everyone has a point and an opinion, for even the Impressionists used pointillism in order to make their point. Why do Bishops and Cardinals wear pointed hats, is that their point? And, let's face it, not all points are equal, therefore may the sharpest point be recognized as such, for what's the point in making a dull point, get it?
 

jaybird

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BOD?

Good question....Why would they steal bibles? According to our history books it was for their $$$value.

Chaining bibles to pulpits and “common folks from having bibles” are two different issues. Your conflating the two ;)

if a bible was stolen who would they sell it to?
 

jaybird

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The Catholic and Protestant Inquisitions went to far when they (men drunk with power) decided to kill and torture people.

So, according to your theory, no good fruit can come from The Church or those Protestant Churches since there were some men who sinned in those Churches? I guess no church, or man, can bare good fruit since all men are sinners and all churches have sinners attending them and in their leadership ;)

Mary

there were plenty of good people that had good works. IMO you can be born in a den of vipers but if you seek the Father He will lead you where you need to be.
IMO the church made a wrong turn after the roman takeover, they forced people to follow Jesus the way they told them to follow Jesus. this was not the way of Jesus and the 12. i like the school of thought in Alexandria, it was an open society where all were welcome to come and share ideas.
 

jaybird

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(Not turning to the church for the answers)

Can you explain something to me: Who was “the church’ when Jesus was alive???????????????

a group of believers IMO would be a church, but in the days of Jesus they had temples that operated as places of worship, these were the "official" places of worship, Jesus and the 12 used them, but Jesus did most of His teaching outside of that. rome seemed to go back to this way of "official" churches and outlawed teaching outside of these places the way Jesus and the 12 did.
 

DNB

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@BreadOfLife @Marymog @jaybird @Backlit
BOL & Marymog, the both of you have done nothing more than proven that in theory alone, the principle of Apostolic succession is valid. Which, in a sense, I believe that practically speaking, this is an invariable result of the Great Commission. So, although it has never been a mandate from the 1st century Apostles (despite your 'keys of heaven' theories), it is in practice a legitimate concept. But, only as far as continuing the teaching of the Apostles go, not in regard to the successors having the same endowment as they had. And your entire argumentation has been centered around this notion that simply the principle applies, and not in what history has undeniably proven.

That is, even if one were to concede the point that handing down the tradition of the Apostles was always the intent of the early Church, which I categorically do, the question lies as to whom exactly was this lineage preserved? This has always been my contention from the start. The Roman Catholic Church, The Holy Roman Empire, no matter what the appellation or governance (Emperor or Bishop, state or ecclesiastical), the entire hierarchy, precepts and actions of these entities, patently display the corruption that both infiltrated and permeated this particular pedigree of successors. These accusations are not, which all of your rebuttals have fail to recognize, at the individual or laity level, but rather, at the official level. The indictments are leveled at the supreme leaders, at the promulgations, bulls and decrees, at the doctrines and sacraments, and at the longevity and perpetuity of some of these pronouncements. All the crimes and heresies committed by this entity that you both hold in such high regard and blind allegiance, were approved at some point by those that you claim were given the keys of Peter.

Neither one of you can keep your stories straight, and have in the most ignoble manner given praise to a heritage that has done more harm to the Church, than good. So that again, you have done nothing more this entire thread, than to prove that in theory, Christ promised to preserve his Word, and that the Apostles have passed it in faithfully to their next generation. But, you have irrefutably, erroneously and disgracefully failed to prove with wisdom and understanding, as to whom and where this tradition has prevailed.