Apostolicity

[CoreIssue]

Jesus is not like a guru. Jesus commands us to raise the dead. (Of course not the fable of Jesus you espouse....but the real Jesus)

To you the real Jesus is too hard to comprehend. Too miraculous. Too fantastic. So you limit your Jesus to your own imagination.

You can do nothing...so you don't. But you criticize those who have faith in Jesus. You are just a troll here.

Not Jesus... you.

We are not commanded to raise the dead.

Your metaphysical Gnosticism is showing.

 

[Episkopos]

Not Jesus... you.

We are not commanded to raise the dead.

Your metaphysical Gnosticism is showing.

I rebuke you as a false accuser
Mat. 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

As a servant of the nefarious one...you would not want your house to be divided...

 

[Dave L]

Gosh. How much of what God offers us you are going to miss with that attitude. Because those things will likely never be known to you. The Bible DOES say we have to believe in order to receive.

So where's all the raised dead people and restored limbs that came from the Apostles hands?

 

[Dave L]

Do we have recorded instances of all 12 doing that? Perhaps some were not gifted that way?

Do you have any examples from you or your church doing the same?

 

[Dave L]

You are the one that defended a lack of apostolicity in our practice in the first place....using your type of circular reasoning.

So then we have to start at the OP again... in a circle.

What makes something apostolic?

Show us the resurrected dead people and we'll believe you know what you're talking about.

 

[CoreIssue]

I rebuke you as a false accuser
Mat. 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

As a servant of the nefarious one...you would not want your house to be divided...

To rebuke or bless you must be superior. You are not.

Want to play that game? I am your elder but you are showing no repect.

Matthew 10 was to the 12 Apostles only. Not you.
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

I have seen too many like you. Those wanting gifts of the Holy Spirit but never getting them.

 

[CoreIssue]

Show us the resurrected dead people and we'll believe you know what you're talking about.

He cannot.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Going back to the OP--

What makes something "apostolic?"

This is one of those words whose definition COMPLETELY varies from group to group. Rather than trying to do an inter-group comparison comparing apples and democracy, I find it's best just to study each group and their definition/understanding of this completely independently.

 

[CoreIssue]

The only definition that matters is the Bible's.

 

[Waiting on him]

Up to a point. The charismatic gifts today are enactments nothing like the originals.

The word hypocrite the way I understand it means an actor

 

[Waiting on him]

You might not obey the bible and prefer "voices in your head". But for the Church, the bible does all it claims to do.

Jesus is raising the dead right now

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus is raising the dead right now

Resuscitation, not resurrection.

 

[Waiting on him]

Resuscitation, not resurrection.

Would you agree he’s curcumcizing hearts at this moment?

 

[CoreIssue]

Would you agree he’s curcumcizing hearts at this moment?

Yes, but fewer all the time.

Spiritually raising the dead.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you espouse apostolic doctrine? Engage in apostolic fellowship?

All the *traditionalist* churches claim *apostolic succession* for their bishops. Thus we have the American Anglican Church calling itself the Episcopal Church (episkopos = bishop).

However, this is TOTAL MALARKEY. The evil historical record of the popes (bishops of Rome) and all the bishops in the RCC, as well as the apostate bishops in the Anglican and Episcopal churches proves that this is total nonsense. True apostolic succession would mean men called by God to continue with the teachings of the apostles, not oppose them, subvert them, or pervert them.

However when we come to the *apostles' doctrine* we are looking at the total teachings found within the New Testament. The apostles' doctrine is none other than the teachings of Christ, given directly to the apostles either personally or via divine revelation.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are no apostles since John died. The "gifts" they distributed through their hands ceased with them.

Luke 11:20
[20] But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

What does that mean to you?

 

[historyb]

What makes something "apostolic?"

Catholics believe their church is such based on a bizarre reference to "succession." (As if there was a family kingship being passed down)

Not just Catholics but Orthodox, Anglican, even some Lutherans, and Churches such as mine. The idea comes right from Scripture and the early Church in the Bible. In fact if you study the history of the Church from beginning until sometime after the reformation you will see that the norm was Apostolic Succession until evangelical, non denom, fundamentalist, what have you type of believer came about.

Others believe it means the "headship of Christ"....whatever that means in practical terms.

So do those Churches that I listed above, Christ a the head is not distinctly evangelical, non denom, fundamentalist, what have you type of believer

But mostly people are unconcerned about how apostolic their doctrine and practice is....as long as it is somewhat biblical

Not really, just evangelical, non denom, fundamentalist, what have you type of believer. For the majority of Christian Apostolic Succession is very important because we can trace he laying on of hands back to the Apostles in an unbroken line, unfortunately evangelical, non denom, fundamentalist, what have you type of believer can not do this as they abandon historic Christianity.

What say you?

Do you espouse apostolic doctrine? Engage in apostolic fellowship?

Yes my Church does believe in and practice Apostolic Succession.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Others believe it means the "headship of Christ"....whatever that means in practical terms.

Confused. Are you saying God is not the Head?

 

[CoreIssue]

All the *traditionalist* churches claim *apostolic succession* for their bishops. Thus we have the American Anglican Church calling itself the Episcopal Church (episkopos = bishop).

However, this is TOTAL MALARKEY. The evil historical record of the popes (bishops of Rome) and all the bishops in the RCC, as well as the apostate bishops in the Anglican and Episcopal churches proves that this is total nonsense. True apostolic succession would mean men called by God to continue with the teachings of the apostles, not oppose them, subvert them, or pervert them.

However when we come to the *apostles' doctrine* we are looking at the total teachings found within the New Testament. The apostles' doctrine is none other than the teachings of Christ, given directly to the apostles either personally or via divine revelation.

Exactly. Those into apostolic think the word of God is still being revealed.

 

[Episkopos]

Confused. Are you saying God is not the Head?

Practically speaking...how do you recognize and act upon Christ being the "head" in an assembly? No leadership? Allowing the Spirit to lead? How?