Are Christians sinners?

[RubberDuckey]

Main stream Christianity generally believe that everyone sins. Of course I'm here begging to differ. Every thing that I say here is my opinion. I will always "try" to be open to other peoples opinions.

[bible='1 John 3:7 1 John 3:8'][/bible]

You will notice that it says those that sin are of the devil. If all people are sinners, then that would mean Christians are sinners as well. If Christians are sinners , then based on the passage above we are of the devil.

[bible='1 John 4:4'][/bible]

I don't believe that Christians could ever be "of the devil" just as much as I believe that Christians could never be possessed by a demon. That would mean that Christians are not sinners. That doesn't mean that we can all run around murdering people I'm just stating the bible as pure as possible. So, what do you guys think?

btw, This is my first post!

 

[Disciple]

'They that are in Christ are dead to sin..'
I guess you could say 'christians have sinned'; but we are not living in sin, and we are indeed dead to it, risen unto new life..
Welcome to the board Ducky!!!
Good post, hope to see you around.
devon

 

[th1b.taylor]

Main stream Christianity generally believe that everyone sins. Of course I'm here begging to differ. Every thing that I say here is my opinion. I will always "try" to be open to other peoples opinions.

First and foremost, when we rely on anyone's opinion we have disobeyed God and that is sin. (2Tim. 3:16)

You will notice that it says those that sin are of the devil. If all people are sinners, then that would mean Christians are sinners as well. If Christians are sinners , then based on the passage above we are of the devil.

The very first rule of understanding the Bible is that no scripture or grouping of scripture can be discerned without the light of all scripture being brought to bare on it. There are more but the very first to examine in light of your claim is Romans 3, paying close attention to the tenth and twenty-third verses. You appear to need an intensive study in the Book of Romans also known as the Christian Manifesto. A good study here will teach you that a Christian might stumble and sin but he or she will not plan to sin, ie. before I was a Christian, I sang Country Music and the Blues. I had a plan every Friday and Saturday night and it was not to glorify anyone but myself. Now, when I sing, I sing for my LORD.

I don't believe that Christians could ever be "of the devil" just as much as I believe that Christians could never be possessed by a demon. That would mean that Christians are not sinners. That doesn't mean that we can all run around murdering people I'm just stating the bible as pure as possible. So, what do you guys think?

Here again you need to consider the entirety of scripture and worthy of note, from a Bible Teacher's point of view, you need to leave scripture in it's context and the context of 1John 4 is of God's love and our love.

btw, This is my first post!

Welcome!

 

[tomwebster]

'They that are in Christ are dead to sin..'
I guess you could say 'christians have sinned'; but we are not living in sin, and we are indeed dead to it, risen unto new life..
Welcome to the board Ducky!!!
Good post, hope to see you around.
devon

Take a close look at yourself over the last two weeks, are you telling us that you did not sin at least once? You are calling yourself a "Christian member" now, remember.

 

[Thankful 1]

A Spiritual Christian is a temple of God where no sin exists.​

(Romans 6:2-4) “How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”



(1 John 5:18) “ We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

 

[tomwebster]

A Spiritual Christian is a temple of God where no sin exists.​

(Romans 6:2-4) “How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”



(1 John 5:18) “ We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

So, t, you are telling us that over the last several weeks you have not sinned? You haven't looked, you haven't lied, you haven’t sinned at all?

 

[Nomad]

Main stream Christianity generally believe that everyone sins. Of course I'm here begging to differ.

You referenced 1 John 3:7, 8 as proof of your belief. Let's look at that passage.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The Greek word behind 'doeth' and 'committeth' is a present participle. Greek present tense verbs always indicate repeated or on-going action. So John is not saying that believers never sin. He's saying that believers will not sin habitually. In other words, the true believer will not live a lifestyle of constant unrepentant sinfulness. Here's a better translation of the passage in question.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. - ESV

As a matter of fact, John recognizes that believers will at times fall into sin.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - ESV

 

[Thankful 1]

You referenced 1 John 3:7, 8 as proof of your belief. Let's look at that passage.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The Greek word behind 'doeth' and 'committeth' is a present participle. Greek present tense verbs always indicate repeated or on-going action. So John is not saying that believers never sin. He's saying that believers will not sin habitually. In other words, the true believer will not live a lifestyle of constant unrepentant sinfulness. Here's a better translation of the passage in question.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. - ESV

As a matter of fact, John recognizes that believers will at times fall into sin.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - ESV

I would like to share some of the tools people use to twist the written Word of God.



The tool often used is the Greek Word.

I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.



What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.



There are any numbers of translations of the bible, and all tend to slant the Word to read such as to verify one theology or another



Hyperbole is also used a lot. Jesus did not mean that it is just an exaggeration. Then people will go on and tell one what he really meant. Tell me how does anyone know unless Jesus told him or her? If Jesus told them he will tell us also right?



Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, and the people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one just what Jesus meant. Wow they must be really intelligent, like us simple people can’t read, and understand.



Another tool often used is that part of the written Word is not talking to us. People don’t like what a letter is saying, so then if it is not speaking to them it can be ignored. They want us to believe that the bible is like our history books.



Separating our spirit from our bodies, as if one is not part of the other. This tool is used to make our actions not accountable. Our spirit don’t sin so only the body is held accountable. What is so unbelievable is many people buy into that garbage.



After all these tools have been exposed as such, then the last tool is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the twisting tools.

 

[gregg]

the ? was are Christin sinners? my answer is are sinners Christins? : we all have sined, but we all don't continue to live in sin. we all have that choice so this day i will strive not to sin but to love.

 

[RubberDuckey]

First and foremost, when we rely on anyone's opinion we have disobeyed God and that is sin. (2Tim. 3:16)

I should have said my understanding of the bible.

Also, do you think we are in sin or outside of sin?

BTW, Thank you for the welcomes! I hope to learn a lot!!!

 

[veteran]

Rubber Ducky, we have all been concluded under sin so that Salvation would come by Faith on Christ Jesus. God's Law was given to prepare the way to Christ Jesus...

Gal 3:1-29
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The law is one work, Faith under The Holy Spirit is another.

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

God gave the Promise of Salvation to Abraham first, even 430 years before He gave His law through Moses. Abraham's Faith is the same Faith of all those who have believed on The Saviour Jesus Christ.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

None will be justified by God's law. And none can be perfect in following God's law. It's a different working than Faith.


15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "And to seeds", as of many; but as of one, "And to thy seed", which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

The law given later cannot disannul the Promise by Faith given first to Abraham.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

God's law was given later because of transgressions, until Christ's coming to die on the cross. (God's law is still not dead today, but only the handwriting of ordinances in the law which Christ fulfilled on His cross; Col.2; Eph.2. Paul later in Galatians preaches for us to walk by The Spirit and then we won't be subject to the law).


21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

God's law is not against His Promises like Faith. It's the idea that one can be saved and justified just by following the law that is against the Promises to Abraham by Faith.


22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

We all have been concluded under sin, all except our Lord Jesus Christ Who was without sin. It's so we are all required to believe by Faith on The Saviour Jesus Christ. Only One without sin is able to save, Christ Jesus is He. To say we have no sin is to place ourselves in Christ's stead as our own Saviour. See 1 John 1 where John is speaking to those who have already believed.


23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)

In 1 Timothy 1, Apostle Paul taught the law was not made for the righteous, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the sinners and ungodly. That's why God's law still exists today. Walking in Christ by The Spirit simply means not doing anything against God's laws. That's why Paul includes the working of "the Spirit" by Faith in the first part of this Message.

In other words, walk in Faith on Christ Jesus by The Holy Spirit and we won't break God's laws. The Holy Spirit is now to be our guide and teacher. All those baptized into Christ Jesus have been promised The Holy Spirit as our teacher and Comforter (John 14). That of course means we can still sin if we refuse to heed The Holy Spirit, which is the idea Paul later covered in Galatians 5 about walking according to our flesh. In that case, we place ourselves back under bondage to the law which exists to govern unrighteousness.

 

[Thankful 1]

So, t, you are telling us that over the last several weeks you have not sinned? You haven't looked, you haven't lied, you haven’t sinned at all?
[/quote


I have not committed a deliberate sin in overthirty years

 

[Foreigner]

Of course all Christians are sinners. We are human.

The goal is to do the VERY BEST WE CAN to eliminate sin from all parts of our lives.

But the only human who was ever successful in that was Christ, when he became flesh.

Most Christians do everything possible they can to keep from intentionally sinning.

A sinful thought, when it enters your mind, is not a sin if you immediately rebuke it upon realizing it is there.

But if you dwell on it, revel in the idea of a thought, even if you know you would never act on it, you have committed a sin.


My pastor gave an example of his own encounter with unplanned sin.

He spends an hour each morning in praise and prayer with Jesus and when he then leaves home to head for work he feels very close to

Jesus and prepared to face that day.

...but then a driver zips through a stop sign and almost broadsides him and drives on with a rude gesture, not even putting down the cell phone.

My pastor admits that his first though was definitely NOT one of love.

But after a block or so he comes to his wits and realizes that his feelings towards that person is a sin in God's eyes.

He repents, asks God for forgiveness and asks God to help him learn from the event what he should.

Christians sin every day. Hopefully, it is unintentional, but the forgiveness, if sought with sincerity, is instant and complete.



As a personal non-scripture-supported thought, I sometimes wonder if we are still allowed to struggle with sin in our lives so we don't lose sight of what a wonderful gift God's grace and forgiveness is.

It also helps us to continue to relate to sinners and stay grounded as to the struggles that they are facing.

 

[Thankful 1]

Of course all Christians are sinners. We are human.

The goal is to do the VERY BEST WE CAN to eliminate sin from all parts of our lives.

But the only human who was ever successful in that was Christ, when he became flesh.

Most Christians do everything possible they can to keep from intentionally sinning.

A sinful thought, when it enters your mind, is not a sin if you immediately rebuke it upon realizing it is there.

But if you dwell on it, revel in the idea of a thought, even if you know you would never act on it, you have committed a sin.


My pastor gave an example of his own encounter with unplanned sin.

He spends an hour each morning in praise and prayer with Jesus and when he then leaves home to head for work he feels very close to

Jesus and prepared to face that day.

...but then a driver zips through a stop sign and almost broadsides him and drives on with a rude gesture, not even putting down the cell phone.

My pastor admits that his first though was definitely NOT one of love.

But after a block or so he comes to his wits and realizes that his feelings towards that person is a sin in God's eyes.

He repents, asks God for forgiveness and asks God to help him learn from the event what he should.

Christians sin every day. Hopefully, it is unintentional, but the forgiveness, if sought with sincerity, is instant and complete.



As a personal non-scripture-supported thought, I sometimes wonder if we are still allowed to struggle with sin in our lives so we don't lose sight of what a wonderful gift God's grace and forgiveness is.

It also helps us to continue to relate to sinners and stay grounded as to the struggles that they are facing.

What else is a sinner going to say?



A sinner can’t back up their unrighteous opinion with scripture, but I can show scripture that say a sinner is wrong.



(Romans 6:1-2)“Out of the question! We have died to sin; how could we go on living in it? New Jerusalem



(Romans 6: 1-2) “ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” KJV



(Matthew 5:27-30) “You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.



Here Jesus tells us just how important it is for one not to sin.



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.”



(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “



Notice Paul was talking to Christians, but said they were still unspiritual. That, he said, was because of their sinning. So obviously they were not mature Christians. Now James was also talking to Christians who were not mature. Now notice in the following Scripture that the Christians who were being addressed were spiritually matures Christians.



(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”



(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[[email protected]]

Main stream Christianity generally believe that everyone sins. Of course I'm here begging to differ. Every thing that I say here is my opinion. I will always "try" to be open to other peoples opinions.

I don't believe that Christians could ever be "of the devil" just as much as I believe that Christians could never be possessed by a demon. That would mean that Christians are not sinners. That doesn't mean that we can all run around murdering people I'm just stating the bible as pure as possible. So, what do you guys think?

btw, This is my first post!

You will notice by the many responses to your initial post that there are differences of opinion. Before I'm done with my own answer I'll open a can of worms and you'll see some real fireworks.

The basic idea is not that everyone sins, but that everyone is born into sin. Big difference.
The logic of the phrase 'everyone sins' suggests that no one can ever stop sinning and by extension that there is no possibility of ever making peace with God.
The logic of the second part 'that everyone is born into sin' suggests that it is somehow possible to put an end to it, that it is finite and that it is somehow possible to make peace with God despite it.

The Bible states throughout that despite man's sins it is possible for man to make peace with God by means of repentance and acceptance of God's provision to make an end of the animosity between God and man. Notice I said God's provision. Not man's. It is a measure of God's mercy and justice that He provides the means for making peace that man cannot or will not provide. All we have to do is accept what He has done.

Having accepted God's peace, we find ourselves free from the guilt and the consequences of our sin. The situation allows us to forge new constructive ways of living.
It does not, however, allow us to wallow in sin once more and still enjoy peace with God.

Salvation and peace with God is not a license to sin.

If we do so either by habit, by design or by stupidity we are in danger of punishment. The Bible says that God will act like a faithful parent and quickly deal with sinful behaviour on the part of the Christian. Once we are bought by the blood of Jesus, we belong to God. That doesn't always mean that we will instantly act like saints, but it DOES mean that we can expect swift parental correction should we wander.

Sin is more than a bad habit, attitude, silly mistake or some kind of divine grudge. The Bible tells us that sin is also the influence of spiritual entities which are opposed to God and deeply interested in devouring our flesh. Like some kind of spiritual parasite, these things hover over the world waiting and watching for those who may be tempted by their obscene desires to walk (or run) away from God. Referred to as demons or unclean spirits (these are two different creatures), they exert a powerful influence over humans even at a young age and may be said to 'own' their human hosts. Scripture calls this 'the power of sin'.

When a person under this influence accepts Christ, the legitimate ownership of the human host by the power of sin is broken by the blood that Jesus shed upon the cross. The bondage of sin cannot be broken by any act or attitude of man because it is spiritual. Since it is spiritual, only a spiritual power can break it. That power is the blood of Jesus Christ. Once the legitimate ownership of a man by sin is undone, God has promised that He will not allow sin to own the man again. God rules in the life of the man, not sin.

But that does not mean all will be peace and quiet. Quite the opposite. At the point when the man is freed from sin by the power of the blood of Christ, God also begins to teach the man (by the rod or by blessing - whatever it takes), that he (the man) is the object of sin's intent to devour. Man is also taught the method of attack, which is usually according to whatever favorite temptation once trapped him. Man also learns that when he begins to work on God's behalf in the world he will be opposed by sin's power. This type of attack is often more insidious and powerful than that which tended to enslave him in the first place.

Christians are not and can not be 'of the devil', but they can be tempted by it and even fall into its traps again and be controlled by it.
Does this mean that a Christian can be repossessed? (sorry about the pun)

Yes and no.

Once a man has repented of his sin and accepted Christ, God has promised that He will never let go.
Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save
Isa 59:1
God promises to join the battle, not that the battle will end quickly or easily.

The Bible says that we should not yield our members to sin (Rom 6:13). Yet it DOES HAPPEN.
The rest of chapter 6 as well as 7 and 8 describe the battle between man, the power of sin and the role God plays in the battle.

Bottom line is that its wrong to simply state that the war against sin ends at the point of saving acceptance of Christ. It doesn't.
It doesn't end in real life and it doesn't end in scripture. To say so ignors reality and the hope of victory.

POSSESSION BY GOD IS NOT THE SAME AS POSSESSION BY THE DEVIL.

The word 'possessed' is often misapplied.
Before a man is in Christ, he is possessed - meaning owned and operated by the devil.
Once saved and the blood of Christ is applied to a man's life, he is owned by God but not operated by God.
The devil may 'operate' a man much like a marionette puppet. That's usually what people mean by 'possession'.
God does not do so.
He does not treat men like dolls. He treats us like men.
If we do not behave, we are justly punished and shown the error of our ways SO THAT WE MAY OPERATE OURSELVES in liberty and live as God would have us live.

Under the Lordship of God, Christians are OWNED by God but never OPERATED by Him.
We are not puppets. For freedom has Christ set us free.
God demands our obediance, but He NEVER OPERATES us like puppets to do so.
We are to live freely without sin under our own power, not operated like puppets.

The possession of sin, therefore, tends to OWN AND OPERATE a man JUST LIKE a puppet. It's purpose is to destroy the host of flesh it inhabits.
The possession of righteousness tends to OWN a man unto freedom. It's purpose is to grant the freedom to act and operate its own independent life in joyous participation of the life Christ grants to us.

Christians are warned to NOT allow sin to OPERATE our members and be subject once again to sin (like a puppet). If we do, our bodies will be operated according to the lusts of the spirits that mean to destroy our flesh.

Liberty requires eternal vigilence and sometimes prolonged battle, but God will NEVER leave us to fight alone and promises that IN CHRIST we shall win the day.

 

[haz]

Hi,

To answer this topic, Christians are NOT sinners. Scripture confirms this too.

The problem for many Christians is a misunderstanding of what sin is. Man's traditional definitions of sin are ambiguous, hence there uis much misunderstanding of scripture.
But, God has given us definitions which are the only ones to use to understand scripture.

God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:

1: Mark 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.

2: John 16:9 Unbelief in Jesus. This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.

3: 1John 5:17 “all unrighteousness is sin”. Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.

4: 1John 3:4 “Sin is transgression of the law”. This is breaking the 10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets free from the law of sin and death, (Rom 8:2).
Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are under it” (Rom 3:19).
“the law was not made for a righteous person (Christians), but for…the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9).
“where there is no law there is no transgression (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).

We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Rom 6:6.
Hence we see in 1Pet 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin”.

And note Rom 3:25: "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,"
It was only our past sins that were forgiven. That means there is no more forgiveness of sin after this as sin was finally dealt with.
And this confirms:
1Pet 4:1 that we have 'ceased from sin'.
1John 3:9 “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed (Christ) remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God”.
Rom 6:2 asks “How shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer?”.

I might add, to avoid any misunderstanding, we still see Christians doing wrong (erroneously referred to as sin under man’s ambiguous definitions), but as sons of God we are chastised for our wrong.
King David's adultery and murder an example.

Finally, consider 1Pet 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We can't be both.

Truly Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36). We are now saints and not sinners.

 

[Axehead]

Whoa! How about a little reality here.


Did you know this was in the Bible?

According to God's Word, it is possible to:

• let the things which you have heard slip (Heb. 2:1)
• go astray (Mt. 18:12,13)
• err from the faith (1 Tim. 6:10,21)
• err from the faith and overthrow the faith of others (2 Tim. 2:18)
• lose your savour (saltiness) (Lk. 14:34,35)
• be offended by Jesus (Mt. 11:6; Mk. 14:27,29)
• fall away from grace (Gal. 5:4)
• believe for awhile but in time of temptation fall away (Lk. 8:13)
• be offended, betray one another and hate one another (Mt. 24:10)
• have your faith shipwrecked (1 Tim. 1:19)
• turn back and no longer follow Jesus (Jn. 6:66)
• forsake the right way and go astray (2 Pet. 2:15)
• stop abiding in Christ and as a branch, be withered and thrown away (Jn. 15:6)
• be offended (Jn. 16:1)
• turn aside after Satan (which implies AWAY from the LORD) (1 Tim. 5:15)
• depart from the faith, having your conscience seared with a hot iron (1 Tim. 4:1-2)
• turn your ears away from the truth and turn unto fables (2 Tim. 4:4)
• acquire an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God (Heb. 3:12)
• fall away to the point where you can’t be renewed to repentance (Heb. 6:6)
• refuse Him that speaketh from heaven (Heb. 12:25)
• become lukewarm and get spit out of the body of Christ (Rev. 3:15,16)
• not remain faithful and be hurt by the second death (Rev. 2:10,11)
• have God take away your part from the tree of life and in the holy city (Rev. 22:19)
• be led away with the error of the wicked and fall from your steadfastness (2 Pet 3:17)
• be carried away by all kinds of strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9)

These things are not written to the world but to the Church.

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (Jude 1:21 )

Axehead

 

[Rach1370]

There's a big difference between being 'sin free' and being 'free from sin'....

 

[haz]

Hi Axehead,

I'm aware of the scriptures you listed.
I find they do not contradict the scriptures I listed showing that Christians "cannot sin" (1John 3:6-9), "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "freed from sin" (Rom 6:7).

By the way I'm not saying Christians can't fall away into unbelief (sin).

Heb 12:1 "let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,[sup] [/sup]looking unto Jesus"

Heb 12:15 "looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God"

Should anyone fall away they are lost and cannot be renewed to repentance (Heb 6:1-6).

But, whilst in Christ Christians are righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1John 3:9).

There's a big difference between being 'sin free' and being 'free from sin'....

Hi Rach,

Rom 7:17,18
"[sup] [/sup]But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. [sup] [/sup]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells"

Man needed a Savior.

Rom 7:24,25
"[sup] [/sup]O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? [sup] [/sup]I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

How are we delivered?
Believing on Jesus.
Rom 6:5-7
"For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [sup] [/sup]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.[sup] [/sup]For he who has died has been freed from sin"

Rom 8:10
"[sup] [/sup]And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin"

Rom 8:9
"[sup] [/sup]you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit"

This is how we are free from sin; ceased from sin (1Pet 4:1); cannot sin (1John 3:9). It's Christ in us that God sees. And in Christ there is no sin (1John 3:5).

 

[goodshepard55]

Amen