Alternatively (and rightly) it is you Episkopis who rejects the truth. Instead you seek to deceive and condemn those here who are under grace. Who else did this? Hmm!
Are Christians sinners?
- Thread starter RubberDuckey
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Alternatively (and rightly) it is you Episkopis who rejects the truth. Instead you seek to deceive and condemn those here who are under grace. Who else did this? Hmm!
I am trying to save you from condemnation! You are indoctrinated by men into a salvation scheme that does nothing to empower you to walk as Jesus did. You are chasing wind. You are not a follower of Christ unless you are walking by His Spirit. Otherwise you are just claiming a belief in a scheme you have invented from a few bible verses.
The bible testifies of the abiding power of Christ to walk as saints on the earth...while yet in these weak bodies. We have this treasure (Christ) in earthen vessels.
Most don't understand tthe power to bring EVERY thought captive to Christ. That means no sinning in the mind....which leads to no sinning in the behaviour. Putting on the mind of Christ causes us to love as He loved and walk as He walked. This is according to the resurrection power of Christ.
2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
No man can do this unless he abides in Christ. If one is not able to bring EVERY thought to be in Christ then that one is not abiding in Christ yet. So rather than make lofty claims and boastings about salvation for unbelieving carnal men who claim to be Christians....seek to enter into Christ. Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and He will empower you to obey His commandments.
It seems to me after reading all these posts that Episkopos is trying to establish the fact that there is a "walk of righteousness" and that God wants us to experience righteousness in our lives and not just say we are righteous because of Christ, yet do not experience victory over sin, "putting to death the deeds of the flesh" and "walking in the Spirit".
It doesn't make sense to claim righteousness but yet, not experience it in our lives, does it?
Axehead
It doesn't make sense to claim righteousness but yet, not experience it in our lives, does it?
Axehead
I believe "Episkopos" is claiming that salvation comes only when you are doing the works of righteousness. Not that you are saved by grace alone through faith in Christ alone, but only with the works included. No works = no salvation. Of course, what he means is "no visible works=no salvation", of course, visible is visible to him, or whomever would be your judge.
So his is a works based salvation (so called) that leads to the bondage of dead works as you try to keep Law, rather than the faith based salvation that lead to true works of righteousness as you live the life of Christ.
Who says this? Because I believe we are saved by grace alone, and not by works, this somehow means that this salvation "does nothing to empower" me?
Where in the world do you get this notion?
This is once again a straw man.
So his is a works based salvation (so called) that leads to the bondage of dead works as you try to keep Law, rather than the faith based salvation that lead to true works of righteousness as you live the life of Christ.
Who says this? Because I believe we are saved by grace alone, and not by works, this somehow means that this salvation "does nothing to empower" me?
Where in the world do you get this notion?
This is once again a straw man.
Talk about a strawman...where do you get the idea that I am not talking about walking in the power of the Spirit and nothing else?
Hi Episkopos,
Your doctrine is one of condemnation. You have already shared with us that you do not walk in the Spirit and therefore sin, being lawless. Your doctrine says that you do not know Christ.
But what does the true gospel say?
John 3:18
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Episkopos, your works of the law doctrine is unbelief.
Hi Episkopos,
You claim that you are sometimes perfectly keeping the 10 commandments and sometimes not keeping them perfectly. You describe this as either walking in the Spirit or not walking in the Spirit.
I'm curious how your doctrine sees where you would stand if you were to die whilst not walking in the Spirit/keeping the commandments perfectly? Under your doctrine, what would happen to you if that happened?
Also, you being in this changeable double-minded state you live in, as described above, it seems much like what is described in James 1:22-25 of the man observing himself in a mirror.
"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; [sup] [/sup]for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.[sup] [/sup]But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does."
Do you not claim that the person not walking in the power of Spirit does not have salvation?
And do you not also claim that the person who is sinning is not walking in the power of the Spirit?
If I have misunderstood you, please tell me.
Love in Christ,
Mark
There is no condemnation for those who abide in Christ...where there is no sin. But the soul that sins...it shall die. So those with faith will live. Those who just give lip service and invent a liberal gospel that excuses them for sin...will die.
What sin does the Holy Spirit empower you to do?
It is impossible to sin while walking in the Spirit. But when we look away from Christ we can willingly (or unwittingly) leave the presence of God...then we sin again.
Don't you that when a perfectly nice sounding fairy tale is brought back to reality??!
??
The thing is, I asked a couple of very particular questions . . . which you appear to be set on avoiding.
I like sticking to the OP. I try to answer in the context of the subject at hand. My answer goes beyond your question so that if you understood what I was talking about then you would see that your question is wrong.
How can you answer a silly question like...How tall is Jesus?
Then I can say...you are avoiding the answer!!! Nice game!!
So how tall is Jesus?
I like sticking to the OP. I try to answer in the context of the subject at hand. My answer goes beyond your question so that if you understood what I was talking about then you would see that your question is wrong.
How can you answer a silly question like...How tall is Jesus?
Then I can say...you are avoiding the answer!!! Nice game!!
So how tall is Jesus?
This, to you, is on the same par as:
Really???
If you answer consistent to your frequent statements, you must answer that the person who is sinning is no longer saved.
This directly relates to the OP, "Are Christians sinners", but, more to the point, reveals your works-based theology.
I believe that you realize the implications of your answers, and that is why you wish to avoid answering, even to the point of asking, How tall is Jesus?
You are talking non-sense. If I cut myself shaving..am I still saved? Am I shaved?
If a hillbilly divorces his wife...are they still cousins? Start actually using biblical reasoning. You think I'm works oriented bacause you are fantasy oriented.You cannot be a real Christian AND be a sinner. These are mutually exclusive. Of course a new Christian or immature Christian will still sin...but that is because he has forgottten where he is supposed to live from. And most sermons with their liberal and carnal man -oriented doctrines are making it harder to do just that...abide in Christ.
Christianity is a race...no one is eternally saved until the end of the race. God will judge us by our hearts and what we have said and done. We all have access to HIS salvation...but who has the faith to enter into a perpetual walk in the power that makes men holy??? Very few indeed! Most no longer believe it is possible...somehow God is seen either as dead or on vacation.
OK, thank you! A plain statement.
Although . . . I still can't help but wonder . . . if you were to put a "yes" or a "no" after each of these questions . . .
. . . which would it be?
Cool!
A yes no would not cause you to understand why I said it. Besides most of what you ask is not based in reality.
Your idea and the biblcal idea of salvation are not the same. When we walk in the Spirit we are not walking in our salvation but HIS. We never own the Holy Spirit. Salvation is NEVER ours. But when we walk in HIS salvation then yes... we are in a saved state...for that amount of time that we abide (remain) there. So then one who is not walking in the Spirit is walking in their own strength. Are we saved by walking in our own strength??? (return the favour and answer me directly on this)
Yes I do.
Cool!
A yes no would not cause you to understand why I said it. Besides most of what you ask is not based in reality.
Your idea and the biblcal idea of salvation are not the same. When we walk in the Spirit we are not walking in our salvation but HIS. We never own the Holy Spirit. Salvation is NEVER ours. But when we walk in HIS salvation than yes... we are in a saved state...for that amount of time that we abide (remain) there. So then one who is not walking in the Spirit is walking in their own strength. Are we saved by walking in our own strength??? (return the favoiur and answer me directly on this)
And do you not also claim that the person who is sinning is not walking in the power of the Spirit?
Yes I do.
A yes or a no would suit me just fine. I realize your reluctance to make such plain and simple statements. Of course, you've revealed yourself already.
I could reply to you as Jesus did the Pharisees, you did not answer my question, neither will I answer yours.
However, I have no fear of clarity. Of course we are not saved by walking in our own strength. We are saved by faith in Jesus.
You are not being clear here...saved by faith in Jesus???? a religious answer. Are you walking by a supernatural power? AND Which sins does that power make you do?
Similar threads
