Are people born with demons?

[Madad21]

A born again believer can have a resident devil and not be possessed (ask Paul, or me!) -- one’s skin is no magical barrier to where the devil may be located, so any distinction implied between oppression and indwelling is moot. (The definition of indwelling can confuse, because it can imply either temporance or permanence. Indwelling: inhabiting, dwelling, abiding, or possessing.)

You might think Im ganging up on you, but the bible refutes your claims, and this is a Christian forum and so my questions are just.

The question is simple and fair

Tell me how does a born again believer have an "indwelling" evil spirit when the Holy Spirit is "indwelling"?

You want to teach us and others that Christians can be "indwelt" with demons as well as the Holy Spirit, the only problem is the Bible specifically refutes demonic "indwelling" in those who belong to Jesus.

oppression

əˈprɛʃ(ə)n/

noun

1. 
   
   
   
   prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority.
   "a region shattered by oppression and killing"
   synonyms: persecution, abuse, maltreatment, ill treatment, tyranny, despotism,repression, suppression, subjection, subjugation, enslavement,exploitation; More
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   • 
     
     
     the state of being subject to oppressive treatment.
     "a response to collective poverty and oppression"
     synonyms: persecution, abuse, maltreatment, ill treatment, tyranny, despotism,repression, suppression, subjection, subjugation, enslavement,exploitation; More
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
   • 
     
     
     mental pressure or distress.
     "Beatrice's mood had initially been alarm and a sense of oppression"
     
     
     indwell
     
     ɪnˈdwɛl/
     
     verb
     gerund or present participle: indwelling; adjective: indwelling
     
     
     1.
     
     be permanently present in (someone's soul or mind); possess spiritually.
     "the Holy Spirit indwells God's people"
     
     
     
   • 
     
     2.
     
     MEDICINE
     (of a catheter, needle, etc.) fixed in a person's body for a sustained period of time.
     "an indwelling chest drain"
     
     
     
   
   
   
   
   
   

Good points Madad21. But I think that mind compartmentalization is relevant to the topic as well. The purpose of controlled torture and other brain washing techniques is to divide a person's mind into separate compartments. The is the activity of men controlled or heavily influenced by demons. This way a person, can believe and espouse two (or more) opposing views and have no conflict in their mind about it. Some politicians do this alot, some of it is not lying. "Oh, I went to a Billy Graham crusade and got saved" but I also know that the Muslim god is the same as the Christian god. Or, I didn't have sex with that woman because we haven't successfully parsed "is" yet. Or, I believe in Christianity but I wear a Muslim ring. Should I go further back in time? I'm merely pointing out that I am not taking political sides, I can equally go after either party's leader. Let's take the Kerry and Bush interviews prior to their election. The interviewer asked them both, are you part of Skull & Bones. They both said its a secret, we can't talk about it. The satanic rituals that those boys go through in S&B would make a normal person puke. But they like that stuff. But what? They can't talk about it! Give me a break, and people still voted for them. In religion there is a process employed by the demonized reprobates. They take their initiates into a process that begins with traditional thinking, then in groups which apply group peer pressure and changes agents they take you into transitional thinking, and the end goal is transformational thinking. Once an initiate has reached transformational thinking they no longer have to bow to the authority of Scripture, instead they can think and believe any opposing ideas they want with complete peace in their compartmentalized minds. So, the process can work on the innocent without torture. It just takes an expert like Rick Warren and his purpose driven drivel to pull this one off. So, you have to be careful in and out of church. There is no where to turn to be safe except the Son of God and His shed Blood to cleanse you of your sin and to be your covering.

If I've stepped on anyone's sacred cow, oh well. Go for it. But I'm against sacred cows too. Do you know how many Hindus in India would not be poor and hungry if they would butcher some cows instead of calling them aunt Regina and uncle Rah? Not only would they have meat to eat, they would have more grain to eat as well because there would be less sacred cows roaming around eating the grain that people need. The enemy's devices seem to be never ending. Praise God, we have a deliverer greater than all of the enemy's devices.

Re sojourner4Christ

Mate when someone uses scripture out of its context in order back up such claims makes me wonder how much more I should be listing to someone who study's demons but doesn't seem to have appropriate understanding and grounding in the word. Such teachings are dangerous because people have a fascination with demons and things of the paranormal so they will take the word of someone who tickles their senses over the infallible word of God.
So then we will have Christians walking around thinking that they can be possessed by evil spirits and all sorts of other information that by the same token could be misleading, taking the wisdom of the world over what Christ teaches.

Im not refuting mind control and satanic blood lines etc etc, but I draw the line at "indwelling" demonic spirits especially when I have been promised as well as taught that this is impossible for those who trust in Jesus. Jesus himself teaches against this. And I draw the line at Generational curses especially because the Bible refutes that specifically as well.

If this wernt a Christina forum thne I would understand running into indifference on such an issue.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

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We've already covered the question of oppression versus possession.

But you've missed the point. You're having a problem with semantics.

Tell me how does a born again believer have an "indwelling" evil spirit when the Holy Spirit is "indwelling"?

Rather, show me with scripture how a born again believer has any "indwelling" spirit.

As I've shown, the word indwelling can have differing meanings, and it does not appear in the KJB -- just another reason to avoid those popular traditional church phrases like "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" when talking doctrine, as you have been.

There are four meanings for the word indwell. Two of those definitions are: To inhabit or to abide - and those two definitions are not synonymous with possession.

Read it for yourself here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indwelling?s=t

[As an aside, the word dwell is found in scripture, but it does not mean possess. It is translated as: abide; place; remain; inhabit; rest; set; continue; dwellers; dwelling -- again, none of these are equivalent to possession.]

Maybe you should stick with the word oppression. It ("oppresseth" and "oppress") does appear about 30 times in the KJB. Most people seem to understand the fundamental difference between oppression and possession. But, still keep in mind the salient point: an act of oppression is not necessarily limited to an area outside of the body.

 

[Madad21]

.
Rather, show me with scripture how a born again believer has any "indwelling" spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16
Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Ezekiel 36:27
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

2 Timothy 1:14
Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

You want more?

As I've shown, the word indwelling can have differing meanings, and it does not appear in the KJB -- just another reason to avoid those popular traditional church phrases like "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" when talking doctrine, as you have been.

As "YOU" have shown? :huh:

What you have shown is your definition of indwelling which happens to run contrary to what it means everywhere else, so your definition that you brush of as mere semantics. is the difference between the literal truth and a load of hogwash.

And where do you think they get traditions from sojourner4Christ. Church traditions are informed by biblical reasoning and information past down by the Apostles to the Church fathers themselves.
If you see indwell in any bible it means indwell as we know it, not some watered down could mean this or could mean that rubbish.

There are four meanings for the word indwell. Two of those definitions are: To inhabit or to abide - and those two definitions are not synonymous with possession.

Now your playing games with semantics, of cause possession isnt going to turn up in the dictionary when you type in indwell. :huh:
A possession is something taken not something indwelt. this is a complete red herring and you know it.

But as far as the Holy spirit is concerned you prove my point, we are "Indwelt" with the Holy Spirit.

[As an aside, the word dwell is found in scripture, but it does not mean possess. It is translated as: abide; place; remain; inhabit; rest; set; continue; dwellers; dwelling -- again, none of these are equivalent to possession.]

What this has to do with anything I have no idea.
We are not possessed by the Holy Spirit we are indwelt we can not also be indwelt by another spirit. (not my words thats from the Bible)
And if a persons mind is taken by a eivl spirit by torment or whatever that spirit has taken that person as its possession.

Oppression is what happens prior to possession as someone apparently clued up on the subject I would think that would be basic knowledge!

But, still keep in mind the salient point: an act of oppression is not necessarily limited to an area outside of the body.

Says you,.. you have absolutely no evidence of that yet I can show you scripture after scripture and definition after definition which refutes your claims.

Stop trying to brush this of as a minor detail so you can get back to building on a false claim. :blink:

 

[sojourner4Christ]

.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16
Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Ezekiel 36:27
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

2 Timothy 1:14
Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

You want more?

Thank you, Father, for your word!

As we can all see, and as I had established previously, "...the word dwell is found in scripture, but it does not mean possess. It is translated as: abide; place; remain; inhabit; rest; set; continue; dwellers; dwelling -- again, none of these are equivalent to possession."

In other words, indwelling (extrabiblical) is not equivalent to dwell (biblical).

We are not possessed by the Holy Spirit we are indwelt we can not also be indwelt by another spirit. (not my words thats from the Bible)

Rather, 'We are not possessed by the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit dwells in us.' That is scriptural. Your bogey man, indwell, does not appear in scripture.

But as far as the Holy spirit is concerned you prove my point, we are "Indwelt" with the Holy Spirit.

You are in error because "indwell" does not appear in scripture. Don't use it to support any biblical claim, lest you lose all credibility. [This is similar to the "trinity" issue; rather, the biblical word is Godhead.]

What you have shown is your definition of indwelling which happens to run contrary to what it means everywhere else, so your definition that you brush of as mere semantics. is the difference between the literal truth and a load of hogwash.

It's not MY definition; you've been shown the dictionary. 'Maybe you should stick with the single word oppression. It is biblical. Most people seem to understand the fundamental difference between oppression and possession. But, still keep in mind the salient point: an act of oppression is not necessarily limited to an area outside of the body.'

Oppression is not indwelling, oppression is an external action.

Yes, it can be “an external action” which, however, may result in an internal consequence. Have you ever suffered from so-called depression? And where does that form of oppression abide/dwell/remain/inhabit/rest/set/continue? ---> WITHIN YOUR HEAD/BODY.

Stop trying to brush this of as a minor detail so you can get back to building on a false claim

I appreciate your fervor, but it can be a reckless substitute before the King, and a useful tool before the enemy. Perhaps this will help clarify for you:

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. James 1:4-8

In faith, ask God for wisdom, then patiently research the meaning of "double minded."

Then tell us what you've received of the Lord.

 

[Madad21]

.



Thank you, Father, for your word!

As we can all see, and as I had established previously, "...the word dwell is found in scripture, but it does not mean possess. It is translated as: abide; place; remain; inhabit; rest; set; continue; dwellers; dwelling -- again, none of these are equivalent to possession."

In other words, indwelling (extrabiblical) is not equivalent to dwell (biblical).


Rather, 'We are not possessed by the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit dwells in us.' That is scriptural. Your bogey man, indwell, does not appear in scripture.


You are in error because "indwell" does not appear in scripture. Don't use it to support any biblical claim, lest you lose all credibility. [This is similar to the "trinity" issue; rather, the biblical word is Godhead.]


It's not MY definition; you've been shown the dictionary. 'Maybe you should stick with the single word oppression. It is biblical. Most people seem to understand the fundamental difference between oppression and possession. But, still keep in mind the salient point: an act of oppression is not necessarily limited to an area outside of the body.'


Yes, it can be “an external action” which, however, may result in an internal consequence. Have you ever suffered from so-called depression? And where does that form of oppression abide/dwell/remain/inhabit/rest/set/continue? ---> WITHIN YOUR HEAD/BODY.


I appreciate your fervor, but it can be a reckless substitute before the King, and a useful tool before the enemy. Perhaps this will help clarify for you:

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. James 1:4-8

In faith, ask God for wisdom, then patiently research the meaning of "double minded."

Then tell us what you've received of the Lord.

Wow, :blink:
I dont think I need to say anymore,

good luck with that.

 

[StanJ]

It's not hard to see the onerous posts say just about nothing and have NO scriptural support shown. Can't really understand how anyone expects to be accepted as credible if they don't or can't quote scripture that supports their POVs and is our arbitrator. Sigh....

 

[sojourner4Christ]

.

Wow, :blink:
I dont think I need to say anymore,

good luck with that

While I appreciate the intent ala "good luck," that phrase is a worldly talisman that has its root in Lucifer.

In reasoning together the scriptures, the use of unscriptural words results in an unscriptural (and ultimately indefensible) position.

Bottom line: We understand that a consequence of oppression is not necessarily limited to afflicting an area outside of the body. This means that even an unborn baby can be oppressed by devils -- devils that are within its body. The questions now are, how did the devil(s) obtain authority to go there in the first instance, and how do they get removed?
.

 

[Madad21]

.While I appreciate the intent ala "good luck," that phrase is a worldly talisman that has its root in Lucifer.
.

So is lying and using scripture out of context

In reasoning together the scriptures, the use of unscriptural words results in an unscriptural (and ultimately indefensible) position.

Exactly the reason you can not defend you position because of those darn Scriptural words keep getting in the way, stupid bible for making you sound like your full of it.
I know you may as well ignore it all together, oh hang on you already do that. :mellow:

Bottom line: We understand that a consequence of oppression is not necessarily limited to afflicting an area outside of the body. This means that even an unborn baby can be oppressed by devils -- devils that are within its body. The questions now are, how did the devil(s) obtain authority to go there in the first instance, and how do they get removed?

Oh man!
I said oppression is an outside action, I didn't say that it only effects the outside of the body, stop playing games with words it getting ridiculous.

And as stan pointed out you have no grounds at all to rebuke anyone here when you can not supply (especially in a Christian forum) one scrap of Biblical evidence backing any of your claims.

I havent argued mind control by torment and that people can shove demons in baby's or the maintenance of satanic bloodlines.

You had a staunch un-biblical stance on generational curses which you have now completely dodged. And your trying to build a case that suggests that born again Christians can be "Indwelt" or "Indwell" or be an "Indwelling" for evil spirits which is a complete load of bunkum because of the teachings in that pesky Bible that keeps getting in your way with its silly words that contradict what your teaching.

Im sorry you cant handle that, this information has been brought to light right here to you by followers of Jesus Christ who read and understand scripture and in it Gods word which is unchanging, ministered to us by the "Indwelling" Holy Spirit, so that we know exactly whats being said and how it is meant.

James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Your letting your pride get in the way on this matter and you guard what you want to be true from what has been made known to us.

1, Demons do not get past down from generations because of past sins (Except maybe curses through an occult)
2, Born again Christians who are the abode of the Holy Spirit can not also harbor evil Spirits.

Everything else I have no reason to argue with.

Oppression and Possession [SIZE=11pt]by C. Parker Thomas[/SIZE]​

Demon oppression is the external work of demons upon the mind that breaks the will of the person and prepares them for demon possession. It is done from the outside as evil spirits take things imagined and real and work upon the person’s mind. It is a campaign of tormenting harrassment designed to completely possess and eventually destroy the human being.
Demon oppression often follows temptation and deception that has led the person into sin or adverse circumstances. As pointed out in the chapter on temptation and deception, many things can be used to bring a person to this place. Some with a strong constitution and the sympathetic help of others can sometimes overcome the milder forms of oppression. However, severe oppression is just one step from demon possession.
http://www.midnightcry.org/pubs/books/dfd/oppression_and_possession.htm

 

[StanJ]

.

While I appreciate the intent ala "good luck," that phrase is a worldly talisman that has its root in Lucifer.

In reasoning together the scriptures, the use of unscriptural words results in an unscriptural (and ultimately indefensible) position.

Bottom line: We understand that a consequence of oppression is not necessarily limited to afflicting an area outside of the body. This means that even an unborn baby can be oppressed by devils -- devils that are within its body. The questions now are, how did the devil(s) obtain authority to go there in the first instance, and how do they get removed?
.

If you actually could produce scripture to support that, we could deal with that scripture, but ALL your posts are sorely lacking in scripture.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

.
Concerning the "bark of back-biting dogs in the distance,"

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Eph. 5:13

It is such a blessing when the word of God is confirmed as true.

1, Demons do not get past down from generations because of past sins (Except maybe curses through an occult)

"Except maybe"?? Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

And "through an occult"?? What do you think multigenerational bloodlined satanic dynasties are all about?

Are you simply not aware, for example, that certain objects and activities consecrated to Satan's service are magnets for demonic activity?
.
.
.

 

[Madad21]

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Concerning the "bark of back-biting dogs,"

So were dogs now

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Eph. 5:13

It is such a blessing when the word of God is confirmed as true.

And how is this true in your situation again?. :huh:
.

"Except maybe"?? Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Oh for petes sake....
I cant believe I am doing this again.....
You were insinuating that the generational curses in Exodus still applied today in your original post which I very nicely showed you to be incorrect and since then you have been on your high horse.

As far as the occult is concerned it has NOTHING to do with the OT reference to sin past down from generations its an outside source of witch craft and sorcery thats why I said maybe *sigh*, WHICH IS WHERE YOUR BLOOD LINE STUFF COMES FROM WHICH I HAVEN'T ARGUED WITH.................. WAKE UP MAN!!!

Im gonna walk away Im claiming Proverbs 26:4 on this one.


PS. that fact you snoop around this forum anonymously says a lot too.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

.

Concerning the "bark of back-biting dogs in the distance,"

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Eph. 5:13

It is such a blessing when the word of God is confirmed as true.

Madad21, the above was not directed to you.

Yes this is a very different kind of curse placed upon a bloodline by a family member or members and can sometimes effect generations after, its especially true of tribal family's in practices and worship of demonic deity's and can be even stronger if the blood of the innocent was taken in these rituals.
These kinds of demons need to be dealt with by Godly people experienced in the occult. Its a gift of the Holy Spirit to be able to drive out demons.

This is a ministry of my wife’s and mine. It is one of my callings.

“[T]he blood of the innocent” indeed.

You are fixated on your “generational curses/Old Testament” exclusive view. So be it.

I send you back again to post #18, where I clearly stated:

“Briefly, a ‘demon attached at birth’ is not necessarily synonymous with a demon from “previous generational sins.” You are twisting my words and are detracting from the OP. You need to go back and re-read what has already been posted.”

You were insinuating that the generational curses in Exodus still applied today in your original post which I very nicely showed you to be incorrect and since then you have been on your high horse.

It was an example! Yes, generational curses still apply today. Regardless, if it makes you feel better, remove your words “in Exodus” and get some sleep.

You admittedly know little about the occult. You also admittedly do not yet know what your calling is. While neither of those facts is necessarily a detriment to your walk, your incessant misdirection would diminish the work of the Lord in this thread.

 

[Madad21]

.
You also admittedly do not yet know what your calling is. .

Where have I admitted such nonsense?

You have no idea what your talking about, I know full well my calling and I operate within it even today, you are no judge over me or anybody else on this forum for that matter. Your condescending back talk, is proof of your arrogance and I will remind you that Gods loves to cut down arrogant people.

Im am already finished with you and I would be very surprised if anyone on this forum would listen to a word you say.

To anybody reading this
The Bible is the foremost authority on understanding and wisdom, If anyone here wants to know how demons operate go to your Bibles, but you dont need me to tell you that.
And you dont need me to tell that anyone who works outside of scripture and teaches the same is a fool.

The Spirit of truth sets all things right, trust the Spirit which is in you to guide you in all things,

(John 16:13)
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

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You are fixated on your “generational curses/Old Testament” exclusive view. So be it.

I send you back again to post #18, where I clearly stated:

“Briefly, a ‘demon attached at birth’ is not necessarily synonymous with a demon from “previous generational sins.” You are twisting my words and are detracting from the OP. You need to go back and re-read what has already been posted.”


It was an example! Yes, generational curses still apply today. Regardless, if it makes you feel better, remove your words “in Exodus” and get some sleep.

You admittedly know little about the occult. You also admittedly do not yet know what your calling is. While neither of those facts is necessarily a detriment to your walk, your incessant misdirection would diminish the work of the Lord in this thread.

Madad correctly pointed out your misuse of that passage, and I furthermore explained the this passage of the sins of the father being visited upon the 3rd and 4th generation. In fact, this verse explains itself with the suffix, "of those who hate me". That means that curses don't befall hapless individuals who did nothing to incur it and if anyone is a lover of God and not a hater, the curse doesn't apply whatsoever.

So Madad has repeatedly asked you for scriptural backing for your claims, and the one scripture you provided, you twisted to say something it does not. He's not being unreasonable. The exorcism of the demon possessed man recorded in the gospels reveals a lot. It shows that demons cannot act without the permissions we give them, the doors we open to them, such as when Jesus permitted them to possess a herd of swine. That's a decision we have to make individually in order to experience demonic possession. A baby cannot give consent, nor can anybody give consent on the baby's behalf. If you think I'm wrong, then prove it in a way other than boasting about your intimate knowledge of the occult.

 

[StanJ]

To anybody reading this
The Bible is the foremost authority on understanding and wisdom, If anyone here wants to know how demons operate go to your Bibles, but you dont need me to tell you that.
And you dont need me to tell that anyone who works outside of scripture and teaches the same is a fool.

The Spirit of truth sets all things right, trust the Spirit which is in you to guide you in all things,

(John 16:13)
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

That would mostly be the choir you are preaching to Madad. It's the one's that don't use scripture but have all kinds of opinions and conspiracies that don't know what they are called for. Spreading the good news is what ALL Christians are called to. That's the ministry.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

sojourner4Christ: You also admittedly do not yet know what your calling is.

Madad21: Where have I admitted such nonsense?

You have no idea what your talking about, I know full well my calling and I operate within it even today, you are no judge over me or anybody else on this forum for that matter. Your condescending back talk, is proof of your arrogance and I will remind you that Gods loves to cut down arrogant people.

sojourner4Christ: By the way, brother, what is your calling?

Madad21: As far as my calling goes, this is between me and the Father, but I can tell you what everybody's calling is especially for those reading this who are still unsure of their own, let me encourage you.

BTW, it certainly is not abominable to not know your calling, we are all called to follow Christ, and as we each come to Jesus a work begins in us, a transformation happens as our hearts and minds are changed, but callings are revealed when God is good and ready to reveal them.

People including myself have prayed to know on a regular basis our callings, but still God desires to patiently help us shuffle forward step by step until our calling becomes clear, because what good is running when you are still struggling to walk. Many new and weaker Christians with a heart for Christ take this journey everyday,

[source: Leader: ISIS is ‘Systematically Beheading Children' in 'Christian Genocide,' Current Events & Political Christian Forum, Posts #14 & 15]

End of that shifting story.

Im am already finished with you and I would be very surprised if anyone on this forum would listen to a word you say.

No, obviously you’re not finished. You have a very contentious spirit: two possibly decent steps forward, one nasty step back. You have been called out on this by others, as well, this tendency to twist the words of others. It’s even been brought up to you in the shout box (not by me). I tend to think at this point that it is not intentional, but nonetheless presently not under control, whereas others here are clearly outright accusers of the brethren. If you are the prayer warrior you would appear to be, then I recommend you go in that direction with this.

I have done something else to offend you here, I played on your word prophetic to send you that picture. I apologize once again.

You apparently like to “play on” the words of others.

But, I forgive you again, no matter what. Yet be aware there are always consequences, in this fallen world, that the Father oversees.

Madad correctly pointed out your misuse of that passage,

There is no misuse, and the reason for that is, Madad21 would attempt to apply that passage unilaterally across the board -- in his irrational fear of the dreaded possession. That is his error.

As I’ve said twice already, “Briefly, a ‘demon attached at birth’ is not necessarily synonymous with a demon from “previous generational sins.” This negates any claim of “misuse of that passage.”

...and I furthermore explained the this passage of the sins of the father being visited upon the 3rd and 4th generation. In fact, this verse explains itself with the suffix, "of those who hate me". That means that curses don't befall hapless individuals who did nothing to incur it and if anyone is a lover of God and not a hater, the curse doesn't apply whatsoever.

This is all good.

So Madad has repeatedly asked you for scriptural backing for your claims, and the one scripture you provided, you twisted to say something it does not.

Wrong. Madad21 used a word presuming it was scripture, but it is not scripture (i.e. indwell). Thus, it is Madad21 who has done the twisting.

The exorcism of the demon possessed man recorded in the gospels reveals a lot. It shows that demons cannot act without the permissions we give them, the doors we open to them, such as when Jesus permitted them to possess a herd of swine. That's a decision we have to make individually in order to experience demonic possession. A baby cannot give consent, nor can anybody give consent on the baby's behalf. If you think I'm wrong, then prove it in a way other than boasting about your intimate knowledge of the occult.

This, too, is all good IF you are talking about “demonic possession.” But WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DEMONIC POSSESSION! The OP asks, “Are people born with demons?” It does NOT ask, ‘Are people born possessed by demons?’

The answer to the OP remains the same: Yes, people can be “born with demons” -- or, if you prefer, “born oppressed with demons.”

Further, I have not ‘boasted about my intimate knowledge of the occult’ and you know it; cease implying that I have.

Madad21 needs to take off his church-laundered hat and put on his discernment hat.

This Vale Of Tears, thanks for posting in a relatively orderly non-contentious spirit.

Madad21 has, in his head, a tape playing, probably picked up long ago from a mainstream evangelical “church,” telling him over and over that ‘the Holy Spirit indwells [Madad21’s word choice] all believers.’ THAT, my friend is NOT scriptural. In scripture, the word INDWELL does not appear. PERIOD. Madad21 is trying hard to make the unscriptural jump from the nonscriptural “indwell” to the scriptural “dwell” as a hedge in promoting his false idea that a believer cannot have a devil ‘because, of course, don’t you know, the Holy Spirit and a devil cannot possess the same person.’ That may be true, but we’re not talking about possession!

He’s hung up on possession. Notice his jump from indwell to dwell, and then his quantum leap to possession. Indwell and/or dwell have NOTHING TO DO with possession per se. He is so paranoid of someone equating oppression with possession, that he’s gone off the charts.

Now, were does all this lead? Here is one reality: If one's spiritual warfare "education" consists of being conditioned with the mainstream church line that a believer can only be oppressed but never possessed by a devil, then the motivation to "be ye holy as [Jesus] is holy" is removed because, "Why worry about it? I'm going to heaven anyway because my spirit belongs to God."

There comes a time to move from the childish ways, to move from the milk to the meat. Perhaps this is not that time for some.

My wife and I will respond to decent questions. Otherwise, we're finished here. Thank you.

 

[Madad21]

End of that shifting story.


No, obviously you’re not finished. You have a very contentious spirit: two possibly decent steps forward, one nasty step back. You have been called out on this by others, as well, this tendency to twist the words of others. It’s even been brought up to you in the shout box (not by me). I tend to think at this point that it is not intentional, but nonetheless presently not under control, whereas others here are clearly outright accusers of the brethren. If you are the prayer warrior you would appear to be, then I recommend you go in that direction with this.


You apparently like to “play on” the words of others.

But, I forgive you again, no matter what. Yet be aware there are always consequences, in this fallen world, that the Father oversees.


There is no misuse, and the reason for that is, Madad21 would attempt to apply that passage unilaterally across the board -- in his irrational fear of the dreaded possession. That is his error.

As I’ve said twice already, “Briefly, a ‘demon attached at birth’ is not necessarily synonymous with a demon from “previous generational sins.” This negates any claim of “misuse of that passage.”


This is all good.


Wrong. Madad21 used a word presuming it was scripture, but it is not scripture (i.e. indwell). Thus, it is Madad21 who has done the twisting.


This, too, is all good IF you are talking about “demonic possession.” But WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DEMONIC POSSESSION! The OP asks, “Are people born with demons?” It does NOT ask, ‘Are people born possessed by demons?’

The answer to the OP remains the same: Yes, people can be “born with demons” -- or, if you prefer, “born oppressed with demons.”

Further, I have not ‘boasted about my intimate knowledge of the occult’ and you know it; cease implying that I have.

Madad21 needs to take off his church-laundered hat and put on his discernment hat.

This Vale Of Tears, thanks for posting in a relatively orderly non-contentious spirit.

Madad21 has, in his head, a tape playing, probably picked up long ago from a mainstream evangelical “church,” telling him over and over that ‘the Holy Spirit indwells [Madad21’s word choice] all believers.’ THAT, my friend is NOT scriptural. In scripture, the word INDWELL does not appear. PERIOD. Madad21 is trying hard to make the unscriptural jump from the nonscriptural “indwell” to the scriptural “dwell” as a hedge in promoting his false idea that a believer cannot have a devil ‘because, of course, don’t you know, the Holy Spirit and a devil cannot possess the same person.’ That may be true, but we’re not talking about possession!

He’s hung up on possession. Notice his jump from indwell to dwell, and then his quantum leap to possession. Indwell and/or dwell have NOTHING TO DO with possession per se. He is so paranoid of someone equating oppression with possession, that he’s gone off the charts.

Now, were does all this lead? Here is one reality: If one's spiritual warfare "education" consists of being conditioned with the mainstream church line that a believer can only be oppressed but never possessed by a devil, then the motivation to "be ye holy as [Jesus] is holy" is removed because, "Why worry about it? I'm going to heaven anyway because my spirit belongs to God."

There comes a time to move from the childish ways, to move from the milk to the meat. Perhaps this is not that time for some.

My wife and I will respond to decent questions. Otherwise, we're finished here. Thank you.

On the way home from the gym I just finished praying blessings for you, and I asked God to forgive me for being angry and running out of patients with you. I also asked God that if there was anything in what I said to that was wrong to please highlight it to me so I can correct my thinking.
I said God I know you love this man and so please give me patients and please forgive me for my anger towards him. I asked for him to bless you and your family.
I just got in the door and feed the cats, I logged on and I see this.

You now what you can say whatever you want about me, If anyone was to read that entire thread your quoting in context they would see. I have nowhere said that I dont have a calling and they can see the person I am and my undeniable love for Christ.
Here it is here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20527-leader-isis-is-%E2%80%98systematically-beheading-children-in-christian-genocide/

I was called to study which I am now doing via Bible College, I have been graciously given the gift of discernment and knowledge. none of which I can take any credit for a part from the Spirit that gifts it. I have been offered teaching roles in both the Salvation army and Baptist Church of which I am a little reluctant because I would like to complete my studies first. Prior to all this although I came to Christ many years ago I was a thug struggling with sex drugs and alcohol and the power of being a bouncer at night clubs. In just this past two years after much crying out in my sin my life has completely turned around. And it has nothing to do with any effort I made, but a hunger and thirst given me by a gracious God of love and compassion.

I dont always see eye to eye with my brothers here on the forum but I do in all sincerity love them very much as they all bring so much in to my life. And I can feel kindred Spirits in them, the love for Jesus they have goes beyond our differences and all gifted beautifully in their own way as Christ has seen fit. I treasure their friendship and I look forward to seeing them. This may be just a forum to some but for me as someone who works long nights alone and only goes to church once a week when I can this is fellowship for me.

I feel a little sick now because I feel like I have been talking about myself too much, and none of this is about me, its all about Jesus who is my very heart and the heart of my brothers who stand in strength in the word of truth, solid as a rock and hits you harder then a Mack truck with no brakes.

As for you, I prayed for God to help me forgive and be patient and I will honor Him in that request.

God bless.

.

.

 

[[email protected]]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tim. chap. 3




You have the right idea, but are missing the bigger picture. Exactly how do you think that “propensity to sin will be played upon”?

The bigger picture is the understanding that there is a sophisticated application being utilized by satanic higher powers to accomplish what the majority have already been conditioned to dismiss.

A brother of mine has said it better than I. Devils (for familiarity purposes, we’ll call them demons for now) are attracted by the "scent" of people. We are made in the image of God, and we are attractive prey to those who hate God Almighty. Cities are magnets for demons. When demons target a person or people, a common tactic is to make trouble for the person. When a person’s problems reach a crescendo, they will be in a state of mind to grab any solution that is passing by. People then make pacts with demonic forces. They sell their souls hoping for relief from their problems. All this is clear as a bell to the spiritually enlightened, but the demonic forces are able to dull the senses of their victims to the point they no longer have the slightest realization that they have sold their souls. People make a choice to accept the falsehood offered by the demons for their relief, rather than stick with the truth which seems to hurt. The demonic lies may be that colds and flus are caused by evil spirits--when in reality they are caused by viruses and bacteria. Or the opposite type of lie may be given--that demonic forces have no influence over disease, that only viruses and bacteria exist.

In Africa, modern medicine is often viewed as White Man’s magic, because they fight disease with incantations that the demons have taught them to use to cure their problems. Authority to demons is transferred to them by festivals, ceremonies and pilgrimages. Strong demonic manifestations usually occur around festivals, ceremonies, rituals and pilgrimages which are being done everyday around the world. These ceremonies and rituals are welcome mats for demonic forces giving them the right to rule. Every area of the world has them. And often demonic signs and wonders occur at these rituals and ceremonies.

The power of a lie has to be preserved and fuelled by tradition, which is manifested via rituals. Without tradition, the power of the lie would die out. If the tradition is being rejected by a people, the demons often augment it with "new" deceptions. The first lie doesn’t stand a chance. The pre-existing bondage then is strengthened by new deceptions that seem more appropriate.
If you were asked now, "HOW DOES SATAN ENSLAVE PEOPLE?" you should know the answer because it was just given it to you. The answer is Satan’s control is trauma-based. A trauma is applied to the lives of people (OK City, 9/11, all wars, ad nauseum). They reach out for some type of answer to the trauma, and the demons offer some type of answer--so many Hail Mary's, or so many sacrificed cats, or pray to some idol which is a disguised demon. The lies are turned into myths which the people believe. The myths are a blurring of reality that the people on one level may know are false, but their minds can’t break loose of the power of the lie. The power of the myths is fuelled by tradition and demonic manifestations and demonic attacks.

Anyone who steps outside of the demonic lie is attacked. The people feel they are being personally attacked when their traditions are ignored. Because a people has willingly sacrificed the truth for the falsehood in their need for relief from their trauma, they have chosen to be deceived. This choice to be deceived has a great deal of spiritual power to it. They are no longer truth-lovers. It is not enough to come to these people with the truth. They have rejected the truth. They must at some point will to seek the truth again. These people can have all the proof shown to them about the truth, and they will continue to reject it. Their demonic bondage needs to be broken somehow. This bondage can be broken in a number of ways. Pointing out the inadequacies of the lies is sometimes sufficient to break the demonic spell over people. But after the lies are broken, they need to be followed by the truth--and the love of truth.

I will not delve into the minute details of the procedures in which the above described mind control is perpetrated. The point is that there is a type of this programming that begins before birth.




This poster has nailed it here. Possession is the ultimate goal of the programmers by creating lots of dishonour so when the time comes to make that decision, the person, already made to feel worthless and unloved, and bubbling over with a multitude of devils, will simply acquiesce to the dark side.


Jude, thanks for asking what many would see as a tough question. Please feel free to pm me if you wish, and my wife and I will try to assist you in any Godly way possible.

I've read several of Jude's posts here and must say that they are the most well informed of the lot. Not well worded in some places, however.

To Jude I suggest that since the subject at hand can be most dangerous and grievous, not to mention confusing, the phrasing of statements made should be carefully considered. Again I'm not disagreeing with it, but I am suggesting that the frame of reference within which this topic is written carries a different contextual meaning to many readers.

The definition of demon, for example, carries a different meaning to the secular world than is found in life's experiences as well as in scripture. To some, a demon is only a stone gargoyle figure guarding the exterior of a medieval cathedral. Hollywood portrays such entities very much like an anti-hero - a human super hero in dark tights. (Have you noticed how ALL super-heros, even Superman, are gradually shedding their comic book bright colors in exchange for dark or black colors?) An episode of a Spiderman feature movie did just that in fact. But these are NOT demons in the literal sense.

Even worse, the secular world hardly knows or acknowledges the existence of a metaphysical component of the human being called soul or spirit. Its worldly definition is more akin to attitude or raw energy than personality. The very words are subject to debate as well as their function within a man's own experience - and we haven't even gotten as far as the influence of beings beyond human experience such as angels and demons.

C.S. Lewis cautioned that too much or too little attention paid to demonic activity is unhealthy - perhaps dangerous.

Those enslaved by sin rarely realize that there is some intelligence guiding their actions until it is far too late. They are far too focused upon the physical aspect of their temptation and the torment it causes. Only when they are thoroughly entrapped do some of them understand. Ever heard an addict talk about the monkey on his back? The phrase is an expression that something other than temptation's hunger drives him and that this something continues despite secular treatments and physical withdrawal.

Ultimately, though, the influence of demonic powers upon anyone be they Christian or not is the extension of yielding to sin. The Bible speaks of the power of sin and this is no allusion, metaphor or myth. The power of sin affects anyone who yields to it. Christians like to play with the idea that they cannot be trapped by its power because they hold a church membership card or because they've made a commitment to Christ. But they can be destroyed as well as the secular man by flirtations with sin.

There is no such thing as a license to sin.

Christians who believe they cannot be physically possessed by some demonic intelligence are in for a rude shock, especially if they think they can sin and get away with it simply by asking for forgiveness. God forgives, but the devil does not and if a man even a Christian is caught in its clutches there is a terrible price to be paid. The Christian soul may be saved for eternity, but the body will suffer and perhaps die an early death. St. Paul describes one such occasion when he actually asks the church to turn a Christian over to the devil so that his body may be destroyed and his spirit saved for Christ.

NOBODY GOES BACK TO EGYPT.

The lesson of the Hebrews in their desert march from Egypt to the promised land is a good example, The Christian will either go forward in obedient service to Jesus, or he will die in the desert before his time. Sin is dangerous and the demonic carrion birds constantly prowl the earth seeking whom they may destroy - those who are called by the name of Christ as well as those who are not. Do NOT flirt with sin.

NOBODY GOES BACK TO EGYPT. EVER.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Madad21]

There is no such thing as a license to sin.

Christians who believe they cannot be physically possessed by some demonic intelligence are in for a rude shock, especially if they think they can sin and get away with it simply by asking for forgiveness. God forgives, but the devil does not and if a man even a Christian is caught in its clutches there is a terrible price to be paid. The Christian soul may be saved for eternity, but the body will suffer and perhaps die an early death. St. Paul describes one such occasion when he actually asks the church to turn a Christian over to the devil so that his body may be destroyed and his spirit saved for Christ.

Hi RJP good to see you again hope you have been well.

If I might offer my two cents re:1 Corinthians 5:5 (for what its worth)
"hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord."

Being cast out of church or congregation is to be cut of from body ,to be away from the body of Christ is to be in the hands of Satan.
The purpose behind ejecting the man is for edifying the man not destruction of the man.
The man needs to put to death the unrepentant sin or he will suffer the prospect of life without Christ.
When the man finally destroys the flesh (deals with his sin / repents) he will be allowed back into the body and thus his spirit may be saved.

We find out by the text that Paul cant keep him in the church because he may effect the whole church with his sinning, casting him out makes him deal with the reality of his sin and allows him to put it to death and return to the body saved. Keeping him there obviously puts everyone else at risk and sets a negative precedent.

Its not to do with possession, Im sorry bud, easy mistake to make I did at first myself, really enjoyed your post very well done.

 

[StanJ]

No, obviously you’re not finished. You have a very contentious spirit: two possibly decent steps forward, one nasty step back. You have been called out on this by others, as well, this tendency to twist the words of others. It’s even been brought up to you in the shout box (not by me). I tend to think at this point that it is not intentional, but nonetheless presently not under control, whereas others here are clearly outright accusers of the brethren. If you are the prayer warrior you would appear to be, then I recommend you go in that direction with this.



My wife and I will respond to decent questions. Otherwise, we're finished here. Thank you.

The FACT is the real contentious poster here is YOU.


Praise God.