Are Protestants "saved? "

[Eternally Grateful]

The doctrines of young/old earth and end times are not doctrines effecting our salvation.

A doctrine effecting our salvation is does baptism save us and is it necessary for salvation VS baptism is symbolic and is not necessary for salvation.

Only one can be right. Which one is right? Who decides?

I agree

But those doctrines (age of the earth and end times) may be the difference between one denomination and another So are they both false churches? or does it matter?

As for the two baptism questions you proposed.

Numerous denominations teach the one, and numerous denominations teach the other.

So does that mean all those denominations which teach the right one is the true church? (ie, the catholic church would not be alone)

as for which one is right, God decides does he not?

If you chose the wrong side, And your salvation depends on it, You will be held responsible for choosing the wrong side, and since you chose the wrong view, you will be punished for your own action of not choosing the correct view,

No church or teacher will be responsible for your sin if you chose the wrong way o you better find a more reasonable and more accurate way to determine which was is correct and which was is not.

If your wrong, Your pope or your priest will not go to hell for your mistake. YOU WILL.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If the term church means a gathering of people then which gathering of people has the authority to decide who should be treated as a pagan or tax collector? Which church do we take our differences to?

which one?

The ONES (yes, not one) who use the word of God to determine these issues

Not the ones who think they were given the authority and chose to make up whatever rule they decide and claims it is set in stone from God

again, Ekklesia (from whence we get the word church) means a gathering of people, in roman times, it was used of an assembly of people who regularly gathered and not only for religious purposes. It also was used of the legislative assembly of the government who assembled in chambers, and of course, the assembly of a group of people who called themselves christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are some churches that teach that gay marriage/abortion is supported by scripture.

And?? Do you think I consider them a church of God??

According to your theory as long as the gathering of the people of that church affirm that doctrine then they have fulfilled Matthew 18:17. Your theory suggests that majority rules.

Um no. You are adding to my words, Shame on you!

I said the true church is any church who teaches the true gospel of Christ.

A church that is openly recognizing sin as ok, especially these two sins, Have never truly repented. and would not be classified as holding to the true gospel of Christ

nice try though.

 

[Yehren]

If you chose the wrong side, And your salvation depends on it, You will be held responsible for choosing the wrong side, and since you chose the wrong view, you will be punished for your own action of not choosing the correct view,

That's the beauty of it; there's no theology test at judgement. Look in Matthew 25:31-45 to see what does matter.

Do that, Jesus says, and you go with Him. Good works are the validation of your love for God and for your neighbor, the two commandments upon which everything else hangs, as St. Paul notes in 1 Corinthians 13:2-3.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's the beauty of it; there's no theology test at judgement. Look in Matthew 25:31-45 to see what does matter.

Do that, Jesus says, and you go with Him. Good works are the validation of your love for God and for your neighbor, the two commandments upon which everything else hangs, as St. Paul notes in 1 Corinthians 13:2-3.

See this is the problem with legalism, it takes the word of God. and makes it appear to say what it has not said

God is not the author of confusion. He did not multiple places we are saved BECAUSE of Gods grace. and thrugh our faiht in him. Only to later say, we have to not only have faith but be obedient.

The fact is, those who are truly saved, truly adopted By God, and truly empowered by his HS will be those who obey his commands.

Remember, Non believers are doing the things Jesus said in Matt 25, does that mean they will be placed with those who go to heaveN/

Of Course not. Because it is not a PRE-REQUISITE or REQURMEMENT to be saved, It is actually a description of those who have already been saved by Grace

 

[Marymog]

I agree

But those doctrines (age of the earth and end times) may be the difference between one denomination and another So are they both false churches? or does it matter?....

Since it does NOT effect ones salvation it does NOT matter.

Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since it does NOT effect ones salvation it does NOT matter.

Mary

Hey we agree on something

 

[Marymog]

As for the two baptism questions you proposed.

Numerous denominations teach the one, and numerous denominations teach the other.

So does that mean all those denominations which teach the right one is the true church? (ie, the catholic church would not be alone)

as for which one is right, God decides does he not?

Hi EG,

Scripture is the Truth. Scripture says the truth will set us free.

Scripture makes it clear their are false teachers and false doctrines. Only one doctrine on baptism can be true. The Church that teaches the TRUE doctrine is OBVIOUSLY not a false teacher and is not teaching a FALSE doctrine.

Jesus prayed that we may all be one. If every denomination chooses their own doctrine WE ARE NOT ONE....and Jesus prayer will NEVER be fulfilled.

For you to suggest that “God decides” which one is right is to suggest we don’t know and will NEVER know the truth of Scripture. That seems like a cruel trick being played by Him if your theory was accurate. He gives us the truth in Scripture but then we are to never KNOW the truth???? Seriously??

I guess we will never know if abortion is murder or not....after all....Scripture NEVER mentions abortion so how can we KNOW

Thanks for your time....Mary

 

[Marymog]

which one?

The ONES (yes, not one) who use the word of God to determine these issues

Not the ones who think they were given the authority and chose to make up whatever rule they decide and claims it is set in stone from God

again, Ekklesia (from whence we get the word church) means a gathering of people, in roman times, it was used of an assembly of people who regularly gathered and not only for religious purposes. It also was used of the legislative assembly of the government who assembled in chambers, and of course, the assembly of a group of people who called themselves christian.

EG,

The baptist and Methodist and Lutherans and Pentecostals and Catholics all “use the word of God to determine these issues”.

But they all have different doctrines and would give two disagreeing brothers a different answer....SOOOOO your THEORY is not sustainable.

Thank you for your time

 

[Marymog]

again, Ekklesia (from whence we get the word church) means a gathering of people, in roman times, it was used of an assembly of people who regularly gathered and not only for religious purposes. It also was used of the legislative assembly of the government who assembled in chambers, and of course, the assembly of a group of people who called themselves christian.

Hi EG,

Soooo lets put your interpretation of Matthew 18:17 into practice:

Let’s say that you believe Scripture makes it clear that baptism is not necessary and does not save. It is just a symbol or public act to show everyone you have dedicated your life to Christ. The church you attend teaches that so you believe it.

I say it is necessary, washes away your sin AND it is one of the things you MUST do to be saved. The church I attend teaches it so I believe it.

I get 5 of my friends who go to MY Church and bring them to you. All SIX of us tell you your wrong and we go thru Scripture with you covering the OT and NT to show you how your wrong. You still disagree with us. So we suggest to you that we fulfill Matthew 18:17 and take our difference to MY church on Sunday. To settle this is very important to me because it effects your salvation...IMO.

Will you accept the decision of MY Church?

Would it be fair to treat you as a pagan/tax collector if you don’t?

Curious Mary

 

[Yehren]

See this is the problem with legalism, it takes the word of God. and makes it appear to say what it has not said

Hence the adherence of legalists to theology tests. It's not like that. In fact, legalism takes the word of God and denies what it has said. Jesus repeatedly showed that you needed to love God, love your neighbor, and act on it. Everything else, He said, depends on that. Legalism looks for loopholes to deny this, insisting one must get everything in the gospels right to be saved. Legalism is the idea that one must have the right theology.

But theology won't save you. A loving heart for God and your neighbor will save you.

Remember, Non believers are doing the things Jesus said in Matt 25, does that mean they will be placed with those who go to heaveN/

(Barbarian checks)

That's what He says:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

In fact, we know that there will be those who are not Christians who are saved, because they will be puzzled and ask "when did we do these things for you?" If they were Christians they would know. So again, you've collided with God's word.

Because it is not a PRE-REQUISITE or REQURMEMENT to be saved,

See above. Jesus says it is. I believe Him. You should, too.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Scripture is the Truth. Scripture says the truth will set us free.

Scripture makes it clear their are false teachers and false doctrines. Only one doctrine on baptism can be true. The Church that teaches the TRUE doctrine is OBVIOUSLY not a false teacher and is not teaching a FALSE doctrine.

Jesus prayed that we may all be one. If every denomination chooses their own doctrine WE ARE NOT ONE....and Jesus prayer will NEVER be fulfilled.

For you to suggest that “God decides” which one is right is to suggest we don’t know and will NEVER know the truth of Scripture. That seems like a cruel trick being played by Him if your theory was accurate. He gives us the truth in Scripture but then we are to never KNOW the truth???? Seriously??

I guess we will never know if abortion is murder or not....after all....Scripture NEVER mentions abortion so how can we KNOW

Thanks for your time....Mary

Thanks for responding.

a few thoughts

I agree about your thoughts, only one view can be right.

Since the first view is held by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the church of Christ, some baptist denominations, and many others

does that make them all part of the one church ?

and for you to suggest god does not have the right to chose, that’s scary

and I know. So not sure why you would question if we can know or not, God did not leave us without proof.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG,

The baptist and Methodist and Lutherans and Pentecostals and Catholics all “use the word of God to determine these issues”.

But they all have different doctrines and would give two disagreeing brothers a different answer....SOOOOO your THEORY is not sustainable.

Thank you for your time

Like I said, The jews used this same argument against Christ. And reality is, if they had studied their word more. And gained KNOWLEDGE of what it said, instead of just knowledge of the words. and get their KNOWLEDGE of what it said by the men God placed in charge over them. They would have come to Christ and not rejected him

If you are ok with risking your eternity on this, feel free.

To me, eternity is far to long to risk getting this wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Soooo lets put your interpretation of Matthew 18:17 into practice:

Let’s say that you believe Scripture makes it clear that baptism is not necessary and does not save. It is just a symbol or public act to show everyone you have dedicated your life to Christ. The church you attend teaches that so you believe it.

I say it is necessary, washes away your sin AND it is one of the things you MUST do to be saved. The church I attend teaches it so I believe it.

I get 5 of my friends who go to MY Church and bring them to you. All SIX of us tell you your wrong and we go thru Scripture with you covering the OT and NT to show you how your wrong. You still disagree with us. So we suggest to you that we fulfill Matthew 18:17 and take our difference to MY church on Sunday. To settle this is very important to me because it effects your salvation...IMO.

Will you accept the decision of MY Church?

Would it be fair to treat you as a pagan/tax collector if you don’t?

Curious Mary

ok lets do this, I bring 100 of my friends to you, and all 100 of us tell you you are wrong. And we go through scripture with you covering in the OT and NT to show you how you are wrong. You still disagree with us, so we take you to our church, and we suggest you fulfill math 18: 17.

Will you listen to us. Or still listen to the MEN in your church?

I know your answer, No, Because you THINK your church is the only church

Me? I do not care what churhc you went to. If what your church taught did not line up with the word of God I would not listen to them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hence the adherence of legalists to theology tests. It's not like that. In fact, legalism takes the word of God and denies what it has said. Jesus repeatedly showed that you needed to love God, love your neighbor, and act on it. Everything else, He said, depends on that. Legalism looks for loopholes to deny this, insisting one must get everything in the gospels right to be saved. Legalism is the idea that one must have the right theology.

Legalism uses a set of legal ruls and says you must do these things if you want to get to heave, Fail to do live up to them, or stray from them, and you will not recieve eternal salvation, Even if you once had it, you will lose it.

Thats why it is called legalism.

But theology won't save you. A loving heart for God and your neighbor will save you.

well. You can not love anyone until God first loves you, so until you experience salvation. about the only type of love you can share is human love, And that will never save anyone.

That's what He says:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Oh I agree

But these are people who are saved,

but again, As paul said, even gentiles who did not have law by nature obey the law. And they were lost.

You should be careful what you believe, this is getting near to being universalism

In fact, we know that there will be those who are not Christians who are saved, because they will be puzzled and ask "when did we do these things for you?" If they were Christians they would know. So again, you've collided with God's word.

Thats right, you think Islamic people will be saved as well as other religions, as long as they obey Gods commands, I forgot. You church has come to that

See above. Jesus says it is. I believe Him. You should, too.

Yeah He said it, and I believe it

People who are saved are those who obey the commands.

Yet people will not be saved who obeyed commands, Look no further than the pharisees to see this..

 

[Yehren]

Legalism uses a set of legal ruls and says you must do these things if you want to get to heave, Fail to do live up to them, or stray from them, and you will not recieve eternal salvation, Even if you once had it, you will lose it.

Nope. It's the idea that you have to believe just so or you won't get to heaven. Instead of living the spirit of the Gospel, legalism goes through it like a lawyer looking for loopholes in a contract. It takes the simplicity of Jesus Great Commandments, and puts all sorts of additional rules forward.

Forget your legalism; it won't save you. Theology won't save you. Loving God and loving your neighbor will save you. That's what Jesus is telling you in Matthew 25. All you legalistic pilpul won't mean a thing if you don't follow those two commandments. That's what St. Paul is telling you:

1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

You have the law, but you don't have the spirit. Thats why it is called legalism. Salvation is really, really simple. For fallible men, it's hard. But it's worth working for.

Oh, and does God give you the freedom to reject Him, even after you accept Him as Lord? Yes, He does. You are free to walk away at any time. He will always give you that freedom.

 

[Yehren]

Thats right, you think Islamic people will be saved as well as other religions, as long as they obey Gods commands,

God saves who He will. You're betting that only those in the right club get to be saved. That's what the Pharisees said. Anyone who decides for God who will be saved and who will not, is kidding himself. And it's a grave insult to God. Christians reject nothing that is true and holy in other religions.

I forgot. You church has come to that

To God. Once you let God decide those things, you are His.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope. It's the idea that you have to believe just so or you won't get to heaven. Instead of living the spirit of the Gospel, legalism goes through it like a lawyer looking for loopholes in a contract. It takes the simplicity of Jesus Great Commandments, and puts all sorts of additional rules forward.

Forget your legalism; it won't save you. Theology won't save you. Loving God and loving your neighbor will save you. That's what Jesus is telling you in Matthew 25. All you legalistic pilpul won't mean a thing if you don't follow those two commandments. That's what St. Paul is telling you:

1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

You have the law, but you don't have the spirit. Thats why it is called legalism. Salvation is really, really simple. For fallible men, it's hard. But it's worth working for.

Oh, and does God give you the freedom to reject Him, even after you accept Him as Lord? Yes, He does. You are free to walk away at any time. He will always give you that freedom.

My friend you have things backwards.

I am not legalistic, You are

I have the blood of Jesus, who cleansed me from all righteousness
I have the spirit who was given me, Who not only teaches me all things, But guides my path, and corrects me when I go astray
I have the power to love, Since I have personally experienced the love of Christ. And with that power. I am an obedient servant.

I had the law. Like a schoolmaster it led me to christ. and I have been freed from its requirments, I now have the law of Love, in which is contained all the law and prophets.

You have rules and regulations. and you better live up to whatever standard you think you have to live up to. Or you are doomed.

But I warn you. God demands perfection. You better meat that demand if you plan going to god in your legalistic way

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God saves who He will. You're betting that only those in the right club get to be saved.

There you go bearing false witness again,

Its not a club, Its people who have been rescued by God himself.

That's what the Pharisees said. Anyone who decides for God who will be saved and who will not, is kidding himself. And it's a grave insult to God. Christians reject nothing that is true and holy in other religions.

Yep. Your church is modern day Israel. Look at them closely. They are very similar

To God. Once you let God decide those things, you are His.

God has decided, and I decided to follow him, Not man.

I pray you do the same

 

[Brakelite]

You're disappointed to learn that Roman Catholic doctrine isn't what you had been taught it is. Why not just find a way to accommodate the truth into your worldview?

Read posts 306,7, 8. Everyone has been told something, and so very little any of us learn is not handed down to us from others. With regards my views on Catholicism, I rely on Catholics themselves and their own teachings. As in those posts above. Am I not to believe them?

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions.

mmm. The thing is, what is true and holy according to the Catholic Church can be very different to what is considered true and holy by others. And that difference had been the divider and cause of death throughout history. So while on the surface your quotes sound generous and appealing, they are in reality smoke and mirrors.