Are Protestants "saved? "

[Marymog]

Your welcome

denomination does not make a church, no denomination is the church, that includes the Roman Catholic denomination.

them church of columbus (my hometown) is a church which expands across different denomination of people who feed their people they way they think is right, other denominations feed their church the way they think is right. Yet in they all lead people to Christ,

yes, you are but one of many denominational churches,

Again, we go back to the original point, made. What makes a church the church? And they answer is not what building they worship in or what name they give themselves,

If a church teaches that gay marriage and abortion is ok with God are they feeding their members good fruit or bad fruit?

Are they leading their members to Christ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Titus 1:9 and 2:1 talk about doctrine. Does it comply with your theory that it is ok for most churches to have the same basic doctrine?

Jesus prays in John 17 that we may all be one. If we have different doctrines HOW can we all be one?

What is a basic doctrine? My definition is probably different than yours.

Church A believes in a doctrine of an old earth gap theory and an end times doctrine which is a-millennial
Church B believes in a doctrine of young earth and an end times doctrine which is pre-millennial
Yet both churches hold true to the one true Gospel of Christ.

only one of them might be a true church?

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

The only reason one would even think this is because they are trying to hold to some semblance of belief their church is the only true church, and anyone who disagrees with them on ANY doctrine is a false church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with you that a denomination does not make a church (The Church). What Church has the authority to fulfill Matthew 18:17?

any church would have this authority, if they are part of the truth church.

The term church literally means a gathering of people. Your church has perverted this meaning, and made it into an insititution

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If a church teaches that gay marriage and abortion is ok with God are they feeding their members good fruit or bad fruit?

Are they leading their members to Christ?

if a church is teaching their people that sin is ok with God, are they a true church at all?

Come on now.. lets get serious here.

 

[Marymog]

Church A believes in a doctrine of an old earth gap theory and an end times doctrine which is a-millennial
Church B believes in a doctrine of young earth and an end times doctrine which is pre-millennial
Yet both churches hold true to the one true Gospel of Christ.

only one of them might be a true church?

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

The only reason one would even think this is because they are trying to hold to some semblance of belief their church is the only true church, and anyone who disagrees with them on ANY doctrine is a false church.

The doctrines of young/old earth and end times are not doctrines effecting our salvation.

A doctrine effecting our salvation is does baptism save us and is it necessary for salvation VS baptism is symbolic and is not necessary for salvation.

Only one can be right. Which one is right? Who decides?

 

[Brakelite]

Bottom line? Catholics accept that Protestants are united with us in the Holy Spirit. At least those of them who love God more than they hate Catholics.

Individual Catholics may it may not accept Protestants as Christians. Depends on who you ask. And when you asked it. You say Catholicism has changed... No. Catholicism doesn't change. If there is any acceptance of protestantism at all, ( eg the agreement between Lutherans and the Vatican,) it is because Protestants are no longer Protestants. They have abandoned the principles of the Reformation and are returning to Mother. Returning to their apostate (you almost thought I was going to say apostolic huh...no) roots.

 

[Marymog]

any church would have this authority, if they are part of the truth church.

The term church literally means a gathering of people. Your church has perverted this meaning, and made it into an insititution

If the term church means a gathering of people then which gathering of people has the authority to decide who should be treated as a pagan or tax collector? Which church do we take our differences to?

 

[Yehren]

Individual Catholics may it may not accept Protestants as Christians.

Just as some individual Protestants don't accept Catholics as Christians. And those people aren't good Catholics/Protestants, and they certainly aren't acting like Christians.

Depends on who you ask. And when you asked it. You say Catholicism has changed...

No, I did not. The doctrine remains as it is, although in non-doctrinal matters there have been changes. The doctrine that Protestants are united with us in the Holy Spirit doesn't change other doctrine. Some Catholics dissented, and a few even left The Church over it. Those who couldn't accept Protestants as Christians left the Catholic Church.

If there is any acceptance of protestantism at all,

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.
from: DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

Sure seems like it, doesn't it?

( eg the agreement between Lutherans and the Vatican,) it is because Protestants are no longer Protestants.

Protestants elected you Pope?

 

[Marymog]

if a church is teaching their people that sin is ok with God, are they a true church at all?

Come on now.. lets get serious here.

There are some churches that teach that gay marriage/abortion is supported by scripture.

According to your theory as long as the gathering of the people of that church affirm that doctrine then they have fulfilled Matthew 18:17. Your theory suggests that majority rules.

 

[Brakelite]

I know of some who are. While I don't at all subscribe to many of their doctrines, I have to admit that many of them are very good imitations of Christ. And in the end, that is what will matter.

No, I don't think you do. You may know some who are anti-Catholicism... The sleight of hand by Catholics such as yourself to turn the debate into a perceived personal hate trip by those you disagree with reveals your paucity in grounded arguments. I grew up Catholic until my mid twenties. My family is Catholic. I love Catholics which drives me to do all I can to show them biblical truth that may free them from there bondage of error and darkness. I knew many sincere godly Catholics who loved Jesus in accordance to the light they had... As I did. I pray all Catholics may one day discover the beauty of Jesus without the myths, legends, and lies of the papal global deceptive gospel.

 

[Yehren]

A doctrine effecting our salvation is does baptism save us and is it necessary for salvation VS baptism is symbolic and is not necessary for salvation.

What about a catechumen who dies before baptism? What about unbaptized children who die? What about the Good Thief? I am sure you know the answers to these; I'm not quizzing you, but we should always acknowledge God's understanding and acceptance of those who would accept baptism, but for various reasons were unable to do so. This so people realize the essential nature of baptism as a sacrament.

 

[Yehren]

I pray all Catholics may one day discover the beauty of Jesus without the myths, legends, and lies of the papal global deceptive gospel.

I think if you loved God more and hated The Church less, you'd be happier. If you were truly unable to accept The Church and find salvation there, then I'm pleased that you found it somewhere.

You don't have to justify it; it's O.K.

 

[Marymog]

No, I don't think you do. You may know some who are anti-Catholicism... The sleight of hand by Catholics such as yourself to turn the debate into a perceived personal hate trip by those you disagree with reveals your paucity in grounded arguments. I grew up Catholic until my mid twenties. My family is Catholic. I love Catholics which drives me to do all I can to show them biblical truth that may free them from there bondage of error and darkness. I knew many sincere godly Catholics who loved Jesus in accordance to the light they had... As I did. I pray all Catholics may one day discover the beauty of Jesus without the myths, legends, and lies of the papal global deceptive gospel.

Hi,

I don’t think you dislike Catholics per se. I believe you have made it clear you don’t like the doctrines of The Church.

The biggest question I have for you is how do you KNOW that YOU have the “biblical truth “ and The Church doesn’t have the truth?

 

[Marymog]

History? Did you read those posts I mentioned? #s 306,7,8?

If you want to discuss “history” why are you in the “debate” forum? Specifically in the thread asking if Protestants are saved?

curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

No, I don't think you do. You may know some who are anti-Catholicism... The sleight of hand by Catholics such as yourself to turn the debate into a perceived personal hate trip by those you disagree with reveals your paucity in grounded arguments. I grew up Catholic until my mid twenties. My family is Catholic. I love Catholics which drives me to do all I can to show them biblical truth that may free them from there bondage of error and darkness. I knew many sincere godly Catholics who loved Jesus in accordance to the light they had... As I did. I pray all Catholics may one day discover the beauty of Jesus without the myths, legends, and lies of the papal global deceptive gospel.

Do you like Catholics who practice, defend and preach what you consider the false doctrines and lies of the Church?

 

[Brakelite]

Hi,

I don’t think you dislike Catholics per se. I believe you have made it clear you don’t like the doctrines of The Church.

The biggest question I have for you is how do you KNOW that YOU have the “biblical truth “ and The Church doesn’t have the truth?

The question you should be asking if yourself is "do I know the one Who is Truth'.

 

[Brakelite]

If you want to discuss “history” why are you in the “debate” forum? Specifically in the thread asking if Protestants are saved?

curious Mary

The question was asked, "are Protestants saved?". Like I've been saying repeatedly, if you ask the average Catholic, the answer would be no. That's based on history and the numerous indictments and bulls issued against the millions of Protestants throughout many centuries as well as the wars waged against them. That sense of exclusivity still permeates the Catholic Church, and if given half the opportunity, would inspire more persecutions in the future. The ambitions of the Vatican haven't changed. Cause the world to kiss the ring of the pope. Come under his authority and accept the conditions of unity and you will be saved.
The modern declarations that Yeheren has been posting are smoke and mirrors and a denial of history. Those two swords of papal supremacy have never been consigned to the museum. Religious liberty to the Catholic Church is liberty for herself and to hell with everyone else. You know this. And the more you and others here pretend it doesn't exist and so defend the status quo, the more guilty you are of partaking of the same Spirit.

 

[Brakelite]

Do you like Catholics who practice, defend and preach what you consider the false doctrines and lies of the Church?

Depends. Do they defend and practice their own beliefs and allow me freely to live according to mine? Or do they just tolerate my belief system until such time as they have the power to destroy it?

 

[Joseph77]

Depends. Do they defend and practice their own beliefs and allow me freely to live according to mine? Or do they just tolerate my belief system until such time as they have the power to destroy it?

According to God's Own Word (not man's word, which is often false),
they are seeking to drag everyone down in destruction with themselves - no, not at all neutral, nor at all willing to leave other people alone - they even cross an ocean and a desert to make a convert, remember ? And remember what happens to that convert, as written in Scripture ?

 

[Yehren]

The question was asked, "are Protestants saved?". Like I've been saying repeatedly, if you ask the average Catholic, the answer would be no.

As you learned, The Church teaches that Protestants are Christians, united with us in the Holy Spirit. You clearly don't know much about Catholics.

The modern declarations that Yeheren has been posting are smoke and mirrors and a denial of history.

You're disappointed to learn that Roman Catholic doctrine isn't what you had been taught it is. Why not just find a way to accommodate the truth into your worldview?

Religious liberty to the Catholic Church is liberty for herself and to hell with everyone else.

Well, let's take a look at that; from the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church:

The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in religious and moral matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of man.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Man's freedom

Indeed, The Church is more open to those of other faiths, than most Protestant denominations:
The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.
...
The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to "maintain good fellowship among the nations" (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.(15)
DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

You've been indoctrinated with many lies about The Church. It's likely a little disorienting for you to learn that it's not what you were conditioned to believe it is.

During the Reformation, both Catholics and Protestants committed horrible atrocities. I think they all regret what some of their co-religionists have done. It's not the reality today. We live in the same communities without hating or fighting each other, now.

Find a way to let that reality into your life. It will heal you.