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Are Souls Burned Forever And Ever?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by whirlwind, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

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    I watched a program this morning in which the following was explained. Although I believe most of us here know this I thought perhaps some didn't and would find it of interest....
    Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture in the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."​
    Those not of the "first resurrection," [Rev.20:6] are those the preceeding verses concern. This will happen just before and during the millennium. God's cup of wrath is poured on those that take the mark...fall for the deception of the fake christ. Where it is written, "have no rest," it means....they won't have Christ for He is our Rest:
    Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.​
    They won't have Christ during that time but will be taught. Notice that they aren't being burned forever and ever but it is the smoke of their torment, their sadness that goes up forever. Their torment is...they aren't with Christ and won't be for the duration. How terrible that will feel for those that love Him and yet allow themselves to be misled. That is the torment.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 17 2009, 03:36 PM)
    I watched a program this morning in which the following was explained. Although I believe most of us here know this I thought perhaps some didn't and would find it of interest....
    Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture in the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."​
    Those not of the "first resurrection," [Rev.20:6] are those the preceeding verses concern. This will happen just before and during the millennium. God's cup of wrath is poured on those that take the mark...fall for the deception of the fake christ. Where it is written, "have no rest," it means....they won't have Christ for He is our Rest:
    Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.​
    They won't have Christ during that time but will be taught. Notice that they aren't being burned forever and ever but it is the smoke of their torment, their sadness that goes up forever. Their torment is...they aren't with Christ and won't be for the duration. How terrible that will feel for those that love Him and yet allow themselves to be misled. That is the torment.
    [​IMG]
    Yea, that sounds just about right whirlwind. It's His children (the elect) that will do the teaching.
     
  3. josiahdefender

    josiahdefender New Member

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    The smoke of their torment is refering to the constant burnings of the lake of fire. Its not saddness. There is no "duration" unless you consider eternal punishment to have a start and stop date. Connecting your statements in the John study and these leads me to believe that you are a seventh day adventist or a JW. There is no mention of the tormented being taught anything by way of instructors, Gods word or the working of the Spirit of God. This again smacks of the cultic 'ahnilation' doctrine that JW's teach. Its also an admixture of purgatory as well. Josiahdefender
     
  4. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    The people who "OVERCOME" will be teachers and instructorsin the Kingdom of God during the Millennium and also duringthe age of the Lake of Fire. Here is scripture to back upwhat has been said:Isa. 2:3,3 And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.Micah 4:2,2 Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.Mat. 28:19-20,19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. At the end of this Age...we will fulfill the Great Commission, which was a type of what Jonah did thesecond time God told him to preach to Nineveh.After Jonah's experience in the fish, God gave Jonah a second call to preach to Nineveh. This is prophetic of the second work of Christ and gives us the clearest view in the Scriptures of the purpose of the second coming of Christ. Jonah 3:1 and 2 says,1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying,2 "Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and proclaim to it the proclamation which I am going to tell you."This phase of Jonah’s ministry represents the second work of Christ, wherein the Great Commission is completed and all nations come under the rule of Jesus Christ. This second work must be done under the anointing of the Feast of Tabernacles, at which time the overcomers will be transfigured, putting on their "white garments," representing the righteousness of saints.Jonah was one of the few successful prophets in history, because he was a type of Christ in the capacity of His second work. Nineveh means “City of Fish,” and they worshipped the fish god. No doubt Jonah's experience made the Ninevites think that he was a prophet sent to them by their fish god.This is an amazing example of the sovereignty of God, for if Jonah had gone to Nineveh when first called to go, it is doubtful if the men of Nineveh would have repented at his preaching. But Jonah did not go until after his experience with a large fish.Since Nineveh was the capital of Assyria, which conquered and captivated Israel, Assyria is symbolized by the great fish. Hosea 8:8-9 says,8 Israel is swallowed up; they are now among the nations like a vessel in which no one delights.9 For they have gone up to Assyria, like a wild donkey all alone; Ephraim has hired lovers.Assyria represented the great fish, and Jonah represented Israel. In that the fish swallowed Jonah, so also would Assyria swallow up the House of Israel. Jonah knew that this would happen, and this was why he did not want to preach the Gospel to Assyria. He did not want them to repent, because he did not want God to have mercy upon that enemy nation. So he took a ship to Tarshish, and in so doing, he became a type of Christ in His first work.The second part of the sign of Jonah is prophetic of that which occurs AFTER the resurrection of the dead at the fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets. Jonah’s emergence from the belly of the fish (the heart of the earth) represents the resurrection of the dead at the last trumpet. He came forth bleached white (transfigured). He was then sent to preach the Gospel to Nineveh, representing all nations, including God’s “enemies.” When the world sees the manifestation of the sons of God, they will be converted in the age to come. By the way...Jonah's name means Dove.Logabe
     
  5. josiahdefender

    josiahdefender New Member

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    Logabe: I am amazed at the kind of topics this website has steered too. Each one is a divergent eschatological heterodoxy. With all that supposed proof you just offered me to prove that the lake of fire is temporal and that the saints are going to teach "in the lake of fire", I cant but wonder what cult has you fastened down. Hmm. I know that Christina is taken up by the old Herbert W Armstrong doctrines, he was a cultist leader. His organization was freed from that spirit when he died at least to a certain degree. Regardless, I can see by the kinds of topics listed in the deeper Christian bible scholarship that the owners,moderators have been entangled with some heretical teachings. I can see youve also joined in. Just so that you know, your scholarship in this matter is like the others who have undertaken to preach this stuff, its all over the map. Quoting Jonah and Isa texts to prove that the Lake of fire will have the saints preaching in them is pure non-sense. Pardon my un-theological term here. Youve tried to prove this by some loose typology, but loose typology doesnt validate a doctrine, it must have far more than that.Tell me logabe what kind of hermeneutic do you use? Josiahdefender
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    No we come from all differnt backgrounds but we can all read scripture not blindly follow men ... What Gods says is not what men say we may not all agree on everything in fact Logabe and I disagree on much but he's right for the most part here.... logabe here has given you scripture ... Do you deny scripture? Scripture is of God ...Now it may not agree with men but then there is a famine on for the true Word of God and you wont find food in the Words of men ...Prove us wrong in scripture your opinions mean little ....
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    With all due respect, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist , nor am I a JW. (Jehovah Witnesses) Your opinion means little. From the posts I have been reading, you tend to be judgmental about all post you make. This does nothing to edify the Body, but rather cause division. BTW, my God is not a revengeful monster. He does not need to torment His children to do the punishment.
     
  8. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    Well, I believe that eternal means forever, does it not?Hell was created foe Satan and his followers, not us.God's desire is that no one should persih. But as foolishhumans, so many make that wrong choice.
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    With all due respect, what does the word die mean? Does it not mean cease to exist?
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    A one time punishment that the results last forever if you die in a fire it makes no difference if the smoke rises forever your only dead once and again for the word for eternity here means the End of an age ...i.e. as its said Sodom Gomorrah burn for eternity do you still see them burning?
     
  11. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    Only the body dies, our souls live forever.It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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  13. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    sorry but this makes no sense. where does it say our sould can die? I'm blind, please show me
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I did in my last post. But it won't hurt to show you physically this time. [​IMG] OK I will do that for you.Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    besides Jordans verses we have Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. He also says fear not he that can kill your flesh body but he who can kill you soul this is the second death.You might also check out 1 Cor 15 where it says we will all be changed into our incorputable spirit bodies 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.There is more on our different bodies the verses escape me at the moment but iwill find them for you when time permits
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Also to point out that Satan is going to die on Judgment Day. (Isaiah 14:15, Ezekiel 28:18, John 17:12)
     
  17. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    As well as the one time gift who's results last forever
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    True but the burning torture doesnt last forever once your soul is killed you cease to exist you wont even be remembered by those who knew you this is the second death
     
  19. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    Which one...It's true or It's true but?
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is no burning torture forever there is a one time burning thats its results are permanent forever ... Once the soul is dead (second death)and this age Ends ... There is a new Heaven and New earth with no sin no death. Death and Hell are destroyed forever. I was refering to the gift part of your post as being true .....But we are told those go through to the New heaven and New earthwe are told the oppisite with Death and hell ..that it is destroyed... So you can not compare the two
     
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