Are the words of Jesus still meant for Christians?

[Eternally Grateful]

That was COMPLETELY uncalled for!

Yes

His slander of a dear sister was completely uncalled for! and he needs to repent.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Reminds me of this.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Yes.

which is exactly the point our sister was making..

 

[Episkopos]

How does God see righteousness?

God doesn't change. The whole bible speaks about how God sees righteousness. Read the bible.

Romans 3:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

None are perfect, all have sinned....even the righteous.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God’s Righteousness Through Faith​

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Oh that's right, that is Paul.. Lets reject Paul.

Was it not Jesus who said there is no one good but God?

God's righteousness is revealed in Christ....and through Christ. That doesn't negate our own obedience to the law...it surpasses it.

Through Christ we walk PERFECTLY in His resurrection life. Whoever sins is still a slave to sin. But Jesus came to set us free...Grace is NOT the power to appease God of our sins. It does not make God blind. Grace is not the power to blind God, as you suggest.

Grace is the power us-ward who believe to walk as Jesus walked.

 

[Lizbeth]

There is this book called the bible.....(google it) .....that some, including myself, believe is divinely inspired. This book is to be taken much more seriously than any religious scheme that men come up with. Perhaps you didn't get the memo on this.

You have formed religious opinions that fly directly against said bible. Unless you claim to have more authority than the bible you should back down when shown how fully off track your opinions are.

The bible shows us that Jesus is the lesser part of a greater whole. Jesus is NOT the Most High...that's the Father. Jesus is the Son of God..Son of the Most High.

In case you missed the memo...

1. Jesus said. My Father is greater than I am.

2. The Head of Jesus is God just as Christ is the head of a man.,

3. The Most High is the King of the Universe. Jesus was given Jacob as His inheritance. King of the Jews.

4. Jesus has been given MORE authority than He previously had due to His obedience to the Father.

5. Jesus only does what He sees the Father doing. As such Jesus is UNDER Authority...just like the centurion said. (who actually had some faith and not just postured in a religious way)

Just a few examples off the top of my head....

You will find no honest way of throwing out this distinction in the Godhead...just like you will not honestly throw out all the references to there being people called "the righteous."

You will bend and twist as part of your actual man-inspired religion.....which is only very loosely based on the bible. You have no balance or understanding of God's ways unless you put ALL the verses together without ignoring, as in your case, half the scriptures.

The irony here is that you will condemn a righteous person if he breaks one commandment but you don't see yourself as an imposter when you leave out...not just one verse, but half the bible out of your religious theories. How can judgment not be severe?

You have fallen for the OTHER gospel, the great delusion....which is based on self-preservation.

Repent...and read the bible. Open your ears, and your heart, and mind. Otherwise, blatant sinners (honest sinners) are closer to the kingdom than you are.


BTW, you will try to appeal to Jesus' humanity as a way to hide His stature....but the opposite proves true. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Remember that. The Most High could never become something less than who He is. He is omnipresent...HOW? By His Spirit.

Apparently you didn't read where that bible says Jesus was God in the flesh and is the exact representation of the Father. Who being in the form of God didnt consider equality with God something to be grasped. And when found in the form of a man HUMBLED HIMSELF. Not because He had to or because He was/is less than God. To say that He had less stature is unspiritual, AKA carnal minded, and adding to God's word. It misses the mark, like so many of man's creeds. It is not what the word says. He has been exalted to the HIGHEST PLACE and all authority in heaven and earth given to Him. What I see behind your statement is to diminish Who He is in order to make it optional whether to believe in Him or not. Why is it necessary to believe in Him? Because He is/was THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

 

[Episkopos]

God gave the law to moses. Hence it is Gods law.


Gods law is seen by the law of love

Love the lord your God with all your heart mind and soul.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

who is you neighbor? It would include your enemy.

if we follow these two commands perfectly. we would never sin.

sadly. we do not love perfectly. which leads us to temptation. which leads us to sin.


that's why the law was given to moses. To prove to us that we are not perfect.

sadly. many are to proud and refuse to think they are not perfect.

Sadly you think you are justified in your sins. You deny the power of the cross and the power of grace. You are a slave of sin and yet declare yourself as being as righteous as God. You justify your religious beliefs in a scheme that would make even the Pharisees blush.

Followers of Luther are so off the path to life....and although many have trodden that trail to make it seem to be mainstream...the judgment will reveal the foolishness of deviating the truth to serve the interests of the carnal outer man.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus proved they were not. because they looked at the letter not the spirit of the law.

Isn't "the spirit of the law" a fallacy?
The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. There is no "spirit of the law". IMO

2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Episkopos]

thats what religion does.

it limits what God did. and adds what they do or will do.

which in effect nullifies what God did

What God did? What about what God is doing? Your theories about God and the past does not give you grace. They are just historical theories.

Those who walk (now) in the Spirit overcome the flesh. You are just a religious theorist that has yet to know any of God's ways.

What Jesus DID was for all of mankind (not just believers) and certainly not just for religious ideologues.

Why does both Paul and John (and Peter) avow that salvation goes beyond religious beliefs? Beyond "those who believe"???

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes

His slander of a dear sister was completely uncalled for! and he needs to repent.

Unfortunately, brow-beating, slandering and belittling those who disagree with him is his modus operandi, and incredibly his followers think that is the heart of God. I never cease to be amazed at the blindness that comes upon those who are deceived.

 

[St. SteVen]

God gave the law to moses. Hence it is Gods law.

Yes, God gave the law to the Israelites alone through Moses.
But that is not what the Bible means when it uses the specific term "God's law".

Look at how the Apostle uses the term in the scripture below.
The term "God's law" CANNOT be the same as "the law".

Romans 7:22 NIV
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

Galatians 2:21 NIV
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be
gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[a]

Galatians 5:4 NIV
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been
alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes

His slander of a dear sister was completely uncalled for! and he needs to repent.

Do two wrongs make a right?

 

[Lizbeth]

Sadly you think you are justified in your sins. You deny the power of the cross and the power of grace. You are a slave of sin and yet declare yourself as being as righteous as God. You justify your religious beliefs in a scheme that would make even the Pharisees blush.

Followers of Luther are so off the path to life....and although many have trodden that trail to make it seem to be mainstream...the judgment will reveal the foolishness of deviating the truth to serve the interests of the carnal outer man.

Sadly you do not understand the gospel or what faith is. In short, your doctrine is unspiritual and requires no faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

How does this man continue?

You are being rude to our host.
I'm done entertaining your replies on this topic.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Did Jesus realy say we can be saved by keeping the commandments though

Amen, Context must be used to determine not only what he said but what he meant

When discussing matters within the Jewish faith, it is logical for Jesus to state that those who uphold the commandments will be saved. However, it is important to understand that "keeping" the commandments goes beyond mere obedience. To "keep" the commandments involves cherishing and preserving them. The individual who "keeps" the commandments not only follows them but also holds them dear and strives to protect them (internally). Some individuals may go through the motions without truly contemplating the commandments' significance. But not David, who composed many Psalms in which he expressed his devotion to the commandments, frequently meditating on them and cherishing God's word.

Similarly, while Gentile believers are not bound by the law, we still hold onto God's word. We contemplate his teachings and protect them in our hearts. Although we are not required to follow every law, we should hold onto them in our hearts and reflect upon them.

The act of cherishing God's word is a marker of one whom God is saving.

With regard to the Jewish context Paul wrote Romans 10, which sometimes we gentile believers miss.

Romans 10:5-13

For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

For a long time, I overlooked Paul's interpretation of Deuteronomy 30. He argues that Moses also taught justification by faith. According to Moses, anyone under the law who keeps the word "near you, in your mouth and in your heart" will be declared "justified" by God. This means that Moses was teaching a "righteousness based on faith." Keeping the commandments involves more than just following them; it also involves loving them, meditating on them, talking about them, and safeguarding them in the heart. According to Paul, this is what Israel should have done instead of seeking their own way to find God's declaration of "justified."

Sorry for the long post, but I think this is an important concept that is easy to miss but so very important to understanding our faith.

Within the Christian context, we keep Jesus' commandments in like manner. Not only do we obey Jesus, we love his word, we meditate on what he said, we talk to each other about what he said, and we preserve what he said in our hearts. Jewish believers and Christian believers are united in that aspect of the faith. We love what God said, we meditate on it, and we safeguard it in our hearts.

 

[Episkopos]

The religious scheme that is accepted by many is that since God concluded all under sin, and sent His Son to save the world...people will take this to mean that God is unable to empower people to actually fulfill the law...so instead He says..."Look we are ALL powerless to stop sinning, I am at a loss Myself to stop this...so now all you have to do is say the magic word (Jesus) and all is forgiven and forgotten....and whoever doesn't say the magic word will be cast into the lake of fire.

If Disney got a hold of that plot line...it would make a compelling story...of an unloving and petty god.

But this scheme just shows how petty, unloving, and unmerciful the people are who invented it. Starting with Luther.

Anything but trust in God's power....grace...to conquer sin and overcome as Jesus overcame.

God's grace is sufficient to overcome all sin. Now, we just have to get religious theorists to have faith...and not just ideological beliefs that have no power.

 

[Episkopos]

Sadly you do not understand the gospel or what faith is. In short, your doctrine is unspiritual and requires no faith.

That's exactly what I say to you. What you mean is that my doctrine is spiritual and non-religious. I don't believe that having certain beliefs means you can justify yourself. When you change the meaning of words, and deny the bible, you get a backward way of seeing things.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unfortunately, brow-beating, slandering and belittling those who disagree with him is his modus operandi, and incredibly his followers think that is the heart of God. I never cease to be amazed at the blindness that comes upon those who are deceived.

Sad but true

But I am amazed at those who have to see the slander yet still fail to see it and end up jumping on the bandwagon of deciept

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, God gave the law to the Israelites alone through Moses.
But that is not what the Bible means when it uses the specific term "God's law".

Look at how the Apostle uses the term in the scripture below.
The term "God's law" CANNOT be the same as "the law".

Romans 7:22 NIV
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

Galatians 2:21 NIV
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be
gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[a]

Galatians 5:4 NIV
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been
alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

its all the same my friend.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do two wrongs make a right?

where was I wrong?

I called out a person who was slandering another person.

should you not do the same?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are being rude to our host.
I'm done entertaining your replies on this topic.

I just asked a question.

the host is rude to anyone who does not agree with him..

if you want to call me out. fine. You better call him out also

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When discussing matters within the Jewish faith, it is logical for Jesus to state that those who uphold the commandments will be saved.

Not really. Because when moses was given the law. he made Israel confirm that they would confirm and OBEY every word.

which means if you failed in just one part. you were guilty of the whole part. (James 2)
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

so it is only Logical if jesus said this to those who thought they kept the whole law. to get them to rethink their position.

However, it is important to understand that "keeping" the commandments goes beyond mere obedience. To "keep" the commandments involves cherishing and preserving them. The individual who "keeps" the commandments not only follows them but also holds them dear and strives to protect them (internally). Some individuals may go through the motions without truly contemplating the commandments' significance. But not David, who composed many Psalms in which he expressed his devotion to the commandments, frequently meditating on them and cherishing God's word.

Similarly, while Gentile believers are not bound by the law, we still hold onto God's word. We contemplate his teachings and protect them in our hearts. Although we are not required to follow every law, we should hold onto them in our hearts and reflect upon them.

The act of cherishing God's word is a marker of one whom God is saving.

With regard to the Jewish context Paul wrote Romans 10, which sometimes we gentile believers miss.

Romans 10:5-13

For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

For a long time, I overlooked Paul's interpretation of Deuteronomy 30. He argues that Moses also taught justification by faith. According to Moses, anyone under the law who keeps the word "near you, in your mouth and in your heart" will be declared "justified" by God. This means that Moses was teaching a "righteousness based on faith." Keeping the commandments involves more than just following them; it also involves loving them, meditating on them, talking about them, and safeguarding them in the heart. According to Paul, this is what Israel should have done instead of seeking their own way to find God's declaration of "justified."

Sorry for the long post, but I think this is an important concept that is easy to miss but so very important to understanding our faith.

Within the Christian context, we keep Jesus' commandments in like manner. Not only do we obey Jesus, we love his word, we meditate on what he said, we talk to each other about what he said, and we preserve what he said in our hearts. Jewish believers and Christian believers are united in that aspect of the faith. We love what God said, we meditate on it, and we safeguard it in our hearts.

Again I refer you to the law of love