Are we divine ???

[jaybird]

what "next world" would that be?

the place we go when our bodies die.

 

[ScottA]

that is precisely what i am contesting though; how do you prove your claim here?
Bc you are not God to me, see

We do not prove God, God proves God.

God either speaks directly to men or sends His servants. But while this is true according to all that is written, you seem to have a problem with the idea of God sending His servants. That is between you and God. Meanwhile, that is not a limit on me or on God, but on you.

 

[pia]

imo the best testimony is not verbal anyway i guess

Well, in a court of law, a 'Testimony' can ONLY given by someone who has either, seen, heard or experienced, something in relation to the case at hand, and this IS done verbally.........Jesus' Love ( performed) is always a LIVING testimony as well, but is not something seen a whole lot...there are of course wonderful Christians around, but at times, I find I have to dig real deep, to find them...:) Mind you, I have met atheists, who would pass for better Christians, than most of the people I have met who claim to BE Christians, so I can't always be sure, by action alone..

 

[bbyrd009]

so I can't always be sure, by action alone..

hmm, imo i would rely on the actions and ignore the professions of belief myself, "Little children" and all that

 

[bbyrd009]

the place we go when our bodies die.

see, but Scripture assures us that no one knows where they go when they die. So then imagining some next "world" might seem innocent enough, but notice how many assumptions come along with this perception; once you posit a "world," you are then led to "flesh out" this imaginary world, that i guess somehow exists outside of Creation, right? And don't get me wrong, i do not know that this world does not exist, but at the same time Scripture gives us many indications that it does not imo.

 

[jaybird]

see, but Scripture assures us that no one knows where they go when they die. So then imagining some next "world" might seem innocent enough, but notice how many assumptions come along with this perception; once you posit a "world," you are then led to "flesh out" this imaginary world, that i guess somehow exists outside of Creation, right? And don't get me wrong, i do not know that this world does not exist, but at the same time Scripture gives us many indications that it does not imo.

so when we die . . . thats it? the end of existence as we know it? so why do we fool around with any of this spiritual stuff in the first place?

 

[ScottA]

And don't get me wrong, i do not know that this world does not exist, but at the same time Scripture gives us many indications that it does not imo.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world.

John 14:2
In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father,

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[brakelite]

Deuteronomy 17:6

6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.




Deuteronomy 19:15

15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

God does not rely on just one witness to confirm truth. That is why we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, with the final arbiter being God's word.


Isaiah 8:20

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[mjrhealth]

If you prefer "witness", then witness, but don't get caught up in the semantics.

What was it Jesus said about the rich man,

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
and if they dont believe one who rose from the dead, than there is little hope of them believing any one else.

God bless Scott.

 

[bbyrd009]

so when we die . . . thats it? the end of existence as we know it? so why do we fool around with any of this spiritual stuff in the first place?

um, "Life, more abundantly" would be great, imo.
But i didn't mean "when we die, that's it, the end," ok, because i do not know what happens tomorrow,
and i'm not even interested, or even a little bit curious to know, either.
we do not yet know what we will become,
and Today's trouble is enough for today, for me anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world.

"the kingdom of heaven is within you. Don't let ppl who don't know the diff in world and earth interpret Scripture for you."

 

[ScottA]

"the kingdom of heaven is within you. Don't let ppl who don't know the diff in world and earth interpret Scripture for you."

This is obviously a pet peeve of yours, but it is not the point.

The point is that there is something else, which you confessed that you did not know of it.

So I gave you the scriptures that make it clear. So, if you hear from the scriptures that this is not all there is, then you have a choice to believe it or not to believe it. Either way, you are not without the correct information to make the correct choice. No more can you say that you do not know, for you either take the Lord at His word, or you have no part with Him. This is why I only quoted the scriptures and did not comment until now, that you could not just reject me. Therefore, if you reject it you do not reject me, but God who gave the word.

 

[bbyrd009]

The point is that there is something else, which you confessed that you did not know of it.

not exactly, see i know of it just fine, only i am not projecting it into tomorrow at the expense of today, see, or looking for it to come by observation.

Therefore if you reject this you do not reject me, but God, see, i can do that too,
everyone who puts themselves in the Seat does that after all right
and the Bible is still not Word, no matter how much you believe It is or want It to be, no offense

so, i gave you the Scriptures that make it clear
:)

 

[ScottA]

not exactly, see i know of it just fine, only i am not projecting it into tomorrow at the expense of today, see, or looking for it to come by observation.

Therefore if you reject this you do not reject me, but God, see, i can do that too,
everyone who puts themselves in the Seat does that after all right
and the Bible is still not Word, no matter how much you believe It is or want It to be, no offense

so, i gave you the Scriptures that make it clear
:)

No, you did not give me the scriptures.

It was I who gave you the scriptures, that you might agree or disagree with the scriptures, which you have now done, even saying that the bible is not the word(*) (of God).

Such a statement(*) leaves us with no common ground, no point of reason. Which is curious (and telling), because here you are giving your opinion daily about something you have no part in. Therefore, why should we engage or entertain you?

 

[bbyrd009]

No, you did not give me the scriptures.

well or you didn't like them maybe, but i just checked, and they are still there

not projecting it into tomorrow at the expense of today, see, or looking for it to come by observation.

It was I who gave you the scriptures

silly me, and here i always thought God Breathed those

that you might agree or disagree with the scriptures

who disagrees with any Scripture? i guess you mean "your interpretation" here, not Scripture
ps i was up at sunrise this morning, and i saw where the sun rose from ok

which you have now done

ah no, that was you that did, as i already made clear, right

even saying that the bible is not the word(*) (of God).

gasp
the Bible says the same thing, too; if the IRL example of your word--or anyone else's word--is not clear enough for you

Such a statement(*) leaves us with no common ground, no point of reason

? sure it does, we have Scripture, God~Breathed, works great, does everything It advertises, is not and never will be Word tho
"just let me interpret for you, and you'll be fine" ok

Therefore, why should we engage or entertain you?

ah, who is this "we" that you invoke, alla sudden? you found a witness?

i know who this "we" is, ok, and the truth would not make you very happy i guess
either

 

[bbyrd009]

Therefore, if you reject it you do not reject me, but God

 

[ScottA]

well or you didn't like them maybe, but i just checked, and they are still there

silly me, and here i always thought God Breathed those

who disagrees with any Scripture? i guess you mean "your interpretation" here, not Scripture
ps i was up at sunrise this morning, and i saw where the sun rose from ok

ah no, that was you that did, as i already made clear, right

the Bible says the same thing, too; if the IRL example of your word--or anyone else's word--is not clear enough for you

? sure it does, we have Scripture, God~Breathed, works great, does everything It advertises, is not and never will be Word tho
"just let me interpret for you, and you'll be fine"

ah, who is this "we" that you invoke, alla sudden? you found a witness?

i know who "we" is, ok, and the truth would not make you very happy i guess
either

Your communication skills make it difficult to understand what you are even saying.

You prefaced your pet peeve about the fate of the world not being the fate of the earth (or whatever) with a bit of scripture, which did not address the point. Now, again I am having to remind you that it was not the point, but the point was that you did not even know (according to your comment) that there was anything more than this world. So, yes, I gave you several scriptures that show that to be wrong without any interpretation, just straight up statements from scripture.

But then you went back to your rant about the scripture not being the word...which you have not made clear, even if it were the point of the discussion. So, now you have derailed the discussion with claims that would appear to be anti-scripture, anti-word, anti-Christian, still not making yourself clear.

This is exactly why I did not comment but only gave the scriptures...because you have now gone off on a tangent, when it was limited to very clear scripture without comment or interpretation.

What are we (anyone here who has trouble understanding you) to do with you - ignore you, or just let you rant, without trying to communicate on some common ground where scripture is the word of God in common language? Because, if you claim that scripture is not the word from God, then you alienate yourself from all of Christendom ("we").

 

[bbyrd009]

So, yes, I gave you several scriptures that show that to be wrong without any interpretation, just straight up statements from scripture.

well to that i will say that we are hardly the first to be having this disagreement, ok, you might believe that there is no interpretation whatsoever going on there, in those,
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world.

John 14:2
In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father,

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

but i can only reiterate that there is, and i could link you to some similar discussions if you like.
the argument is that Christ is using simile and metaphor to describe spiritual things, as i'm sure you are aware

 

[bbyrd009]

But then you went back to your rant about the scripture not being the word...which you have not made clear, even if it were the point of the discussion.

note that i usually ignore those, but then you started your rant about "reading the word" which i know is a lie, see, so you basically put me in a corner there. The Bible makes the relationship abundantly clear to anyone who seeks, just start looking basically anywhere, i guess, try to quote "the Bible is the Word," or reconcile In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God, etc

Because, if you claim that scripture is not the word from God, then you alienate yourself from all of Christendom ("we").

Scripture was God~Breathed, from Word, but having been written down and scribed is now words, not Word.
As the Book will explain to anyone who seeks, "we" included.

 

[bbyrd009]

very clear scripture without comment or interpretation.

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

wadr whenever i hear "very clear Scripture" i know i'm about to get hosed
by someone who imagines themselves The Arbiter of the Book

see, i have no "proof," and neither do i make any demands.